- My name is Tara, and I'm the exhibitions coordinator and chief artists wrangler at the National Poetry Gallery in Canberra. And we're reporting from Ngunnawal in Ngambri country, and I'd like to extend my respects to the elders past, present, and emerging, and I'm here with Joel Pratley, winner of the Living Memory NPPP 2021. Hey Joel.
- Hey, good day. Thanks for having me.
- No worries. Thanks for Zooming me. So I got just a little list of questions, so we'll get started. So the first is just intro yourself. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your photography!
- Oh, goodness. I usually have to talk these things up. Well, my name's Joel Pratley. I'm 32, I currently live in Red Fern. I've been working as a photographer for about seven years, but I first fell in love with photography in high school. It was one of my elective subjects and it was one of the only things I was good at. And after a few years of neglecting it. in my early twenties, I decided to take it on full-time and had a couple of trips overseas, backpacking, and each time I came back, I guess I fell more in love with Australia and an Australian type of story. You know, I guess my feed developed into storytelling, and in particular, I tend to connect and share stories of people that have been dealing with adverse situations and shedding some light on that and helping bring their story into a more public space, whether it be in a commercial context or in a personal project that may, you know, reach a news outlet as a editorial story.
- That's awesome. So sort of like a documentary style, but you know, in telling some of your own life as well it seems.
- Yeah. I've had, one of my first images that was in the national portrait prize, so to be I think three times in total with four images is fantastic, but one of the images in particular was a photo of my mum. So I guess it's more like a confessional style of photography where you're sharing details of your life in terms of, you know, a portrait of mum, but I think that's a bit of a classic subject, but I think it's one that people overlook quite a lot and want to go out and do, you know, stories of people wide and far, but I felt, you know, starting at home was quite a good way to approach that. And yeah, mum just lived in these, like a beautiful, like yellow brick quintessential kind of retro block of flats, you know, and yeah, she always complains I never take photos of her. One day I finally take a photo of her, and it made it into the prize, so.
- Yeah, we've had a few of your family members in. I think that's the thing is. You're telling, you know, it's people you know as well, like what stories you know, it gives it better authenticity sometimes in photos. More connection.
- Definitely. I also think their story or part of my, not necessarily my family, but the, in terms of, you know, where I grew up in Woolongong and, you know, a bit of a downbeat suburbia as I like to think of it, but in a cool way, you know. Very real way. It was really nice that those images kind of struck a chord with people and was able to come out in the national portrait prize and kind of get some exposure and, you know, appreciation, you know, 'cause, you know, life isn't always kind of, you know, through rose coloured glasses sometimes, you know? But that doesn't mean that it's not worth celebrating in its own kind of way.
- Yeah.
- Yeah. Well, I guess that leads us into like your winning photo issue, "Drought Story." Did you want to start to tell us a little bit about that photo and how it came about?
- Yeah, so "Drought Story: is quite interesting 'cause I, that one's not my family members, so.
- I know Nana was holding out to be like, Nana was gonna be like, I remember when she came, I was like, Nana's gonna be in it, but-
- Yeah, yeah. Nan's still on the hit list, so she's definitely got a bit of an inning's left, so I've hopefully got a few more years and a few more attempts of getting her in again. But so the farmer, that came about through a job that I was commissioned for, which was with BPAY for Rural Aid, and the idea was to go out and photograph three farms which were willing to show the extent of how much the drought had destroyed their kind of livelihood and the land itself. So we went out to three different farms and it was pretty bleak, and we were doing kind of like a day in the life of to kind of show how even the, your kind of day-to-day tasks had become very, very arduous and very demanding and very, I guess, demoralising as well. But with this particular image, we, just a dust storm just hit us. So we were there with a small team. There was Kara Barkley that was directing and Campbell Brown that was the director of photography, kind of filming a motion kind of ad component as well, and I was there as the photographer doing the still images for the project and the campaign. So when it hit us, we were just scrambling, you know, just lots of, we didn't really think about our kind of safety or the safety of the equipment, it was just kind of we knew something special was happening, so we just tried to capture that moment. And I guess this was the moment that I managed to get.
- I think like one of the amazing things about that was, and I sent you a lot of the links, was that regional outpouring that we got. Like so many regional newspapers shared the image, which hasn't really happened before with the prize. And so many people in those regional areas and affected by droughts and farmers really embraced that their story was being told as well.
- Yeah, I was always quite surprised as well. And, but, you know, in a really good way, because, you know, being someone that grew up on the coast and then moved to Sydney, I'm kind of not so much at the mercy of drought in that context. So to be able to go out there and create an image and share a story that kind of dignifies that struggle and that people that throughout rural Australia can connect and relate to in a variety of ways, and were happy about that as well, well, I'm not sure is the right word, but got a sense of kind of pride and dignity out of relating to that struggle, that's awesome. That was really, really awesome.
- Yeah, for us too. So I guess like one thing would be interesting to chat to you about is you've been a photographer for a while now, and you sort of starting to really get your name out there and be successful, like some tips or how did you get to where you are now with your work? Because I think sometimes when you win a prize, it's like, oh, you've come out of nowhere. You know it's like, but you've had so much, we've seen your work behind the scenes for a long time, but yeah, like how did you get to where you are now with your work?
- Thank you. I have been thinking about this a little bit lately because when the news broke, I was able to, I guess, celebrate and also reflect and have some really good conversations with some mentors. 'Cause I worked as a photography assistant for about seven years and learned a lot of the craft. Technical, but also more kind of like a mindset as well and how to do this kind of area of photography. 'Cause I work off I guess a commission basis. So I do projects that I really like to do, and then in essence, hopefully create some sort of a positive change or awareness with that project. And then, you know, a commercial kind of entity will link up and say, hey Joel, we really loved that, you know, project you did with people recovering from the Bush fires. You know, we have a not-for-profit or a charity that we support and we need an image for them as well. So that's really nice how that can go into that. But I guess the main thing there is, I guess, having like values and a bit of a mission statement as well. And I guess it's a more practical tip is, sure I was, you know, really persistent, but I found out that it's not so much what you choose to show, but what you choose not to show. So I kind of really wanted to go in a certain direction, which is still growing and changing, which is awesome, but there's also a real trap in trying to do everything. And that's not just in terms of style, but I'm talking in terms of kind of like subjects and areas of interest as well. And at first you may not get as much work, but then towards the end, when people see you as, you know, the right photographer for that job, not purely because of the style, but because that's your subject matter, you spend time with those communities, those sorts of people, and it's something that you really enjoy doing and doing a good job of, sometimes as well it's, yeah, just the whole process in terms of the approach, and what's really important for me is how people feel after the job, how people feel after they're photographed. And for me, it's really important that they feel good about that experience, especially if it's a tough situation or it's not necessarily a flattering, kind of glamorous photo. Yeah. Hope that kind of helps with a bit of, a little bit of advice. 'Cause there's a lot of tips you can give, but I guess that's kind of one which I seem to be reflecting with and talking about with people.
- So like building that integrity and trust as well, sounds, yeah.
- Yeah. That's a really good way to put it because even if you're just coming into a community or meeting someone, you know, ah, you know, and they're very wary, and that's fine and they have the right to be so, but if you can provide them with your website or your portfolio and they say, oh wow, you do this sort of work often, and you know, they can then establish that your character and the trust process is a lot easier as opposed to if you had a wide portfolio, you know, and for instance, if you went into a farm and you actually did some work for possibly a fracking company or something, you know, you might not, you know, depending, but you might get a few doors slammed in your face or something like that. It just, yeah, without, that's just an example, but yeah.
- Yeah. Perfect. I guess that leads into what do you think or what does winning the Living Memory prize mean for you and your photographic career?
- I'm still processing it, but it's, yeah, it's amazing. It's probably one of the best titles or awards you can, you know? A friend of mine was joking around that's not a photographer, we do some kind of training together and, you know, and he said, "you're no longer award nominated, you're award winning!" You know, which is quite funny. So what's been really cool about it is feeling like a bit of a football team and actually it's not just my win, but the win I'm sharing with friends and people that I've worked with over the years and that kind of inspiration that encourages them and then encourages me as well, which I didn't realise until after winning. I guess, I didn't know that was a bit of a thing, but that's just been my experience. But I guess from a photography point of view, I really, again, hope that enables me to take more risks and end up in more situations where I can create and share more stories that, you know, may not win the National Portrait Prize again, but are kind of worthy of that standard. And not just for my sake, but for the people that are involved.
- Yeah, it's one of the lovely things about the prize is sort of the friendships you make and the peer respect within the group of finalists that continues on over time.
- Yeah! Yeah. It's interesting what kind of relationships and like other photographers you kind of link up with and your styles might be very different, but there's a couple of people over the years that I'm now in touch with, and we send messages when we see each other's works and ask how you're going, because I guess photography can feel like quite a solitary pursuit, but to have this kind of little motley crew of people, you know, all trying to do their own thing and supporting each other and you know, sometimes just a thumbs up or whatever, it can make a big difference.
- Yeah. I guess the next question we sort of touched on a little bit and the question is like how have lock downs and all these like rapid changes, especially in Australia with the Bush fires and everything we've been through, how have they affected your practise and the way you approach photography?
- Yeah, I don't have a clear cut answer for that. I mean, it's still ongoing. The effects, but it's kind of really, in my main personal project at the moment, I'm doing greetings from Waterloo, which is focusing on a suburb and the changes which it's going through due to it being developed. There's a community there that I've been just doing some documentary photography and portraits of, and hopefully I'll be able to release that. It was already meant to be released, but it's been pushed back and pushed back and pushed back because what I was doing is spending time within the community, within community groups. So I'd go to straight choirs, I'd go to morning teas, and things like that, and I'd meet people and people wanted to participate. Sometimes I do act as the street photographer and run into people on the street and get photos, but during COVID, during this time, it's a risky business and you can put yourself and others at risk unnecessarily, but then, you know, you still want to go out there and create, so where do you draw the line in the sand? But at the moment it's been a real spanner in the works. So I've had to kind of focus on other things. I guess, more of the backend, like making plans and refining projects and looking at images and learning in that regard rather than kind of being out in the field. So, but again, things are changing. People are getting all vaccinated and hopefully they will be a return to more conducive work conditions.
- Yeah, for sure. We feel for artists.
- I'm feeling it. I'm really feeling it, yeah. It's tough.
- Yeah, we feel a lot for artists and photographers. Yeah, I mean, and entertainers, all sort of artists, that's a really tough time at the moment. Next one's a one that's an interesting one that we always get questions on social media is about, you know, tech questions. like what kind of camera did he use? You know, the award winning secrets. So the question is, can you tell us about your selected equipment and the style of photography you prefer? And is there any secret tips you have to help all the cool kids out there?
- Sure. Gee. Very little on the technical front, I think. Well, I use, I'll start with what I use. I use a Canon EOS, for that image, I used a Canon EOS R and I used a 28 to 70 mil zoom lens, which is F2. It's an awesome work horse. It costs me an arm and a leg, but it's one of those lenses that I'll buy and use for 10 years. I like that it's a zoom lens, even though I like to hang around like a 50 mil, sometimes I go a bit wider, like I think that one was shot at about, oh, gee. I can't even remember off the top of my head, but I feel like it was a little bit wider. It was a little bit up over the top to give it like a real kind of observational, almost foyer kind of feel. But I like the zoom lens because, and a high quality zoom lens like that so I'm not really affected too much in low light conditions, 'cause I like to shoot in dusk and dawn light or, you know, window lit rooms, and I love having lots of detail in the shadows, which can get lost, but having that zoom lens enables me to really change on the fly, like walking an environment, you know, 'cause I like working with kind of real people, you know, whether they're like farmers or, you know, people down in the community in Redfern, you don't know what kind of situation you're walking into. So having a lens where you can change wide zoom or zoom to kind of either change your framing to what's, you know, preferred at the time that's a real key factor for my workflow. I am pretty well versed in flash and flash photography, but I try to, I really, really try to avoid it because I feel like it slows down my process quite a lot. And a flash can be pretty intimidating for someone that's not used to being photographed. So I really like to pay attention to what is happening in the environment. So I guess the main thing is the connection with the subject and then based around that is kind of what's the light doing, and then I would go to composition and if you can kind of get all of those three, yeah. It's a real sweet spot, but some of my favourite images don't have all three of those going for them as well. And I think something that's really understated that I think I subconsciously feel, but I'm not too good at articulating or explaining is colour. I've really liked to use colour over the years, and I've found when I actually kind of look at my images and I guess study them and why they work so well, they feel a certain way is by looking at the colour wheel, you know, real basic like, oh, that's kind of complimenting that or its monologues or, you know, so it's kind of real like take me back to high school art theory, but I think colour can be a bit understated, but I, yeah, so those are four.
- Perfect. That's awesome. So the next questions are a little bit easier. They're not as cerebral. So the first one is photographers or artists in general that inspire you or that you look up to.
- Ooh.
- Could be anyone.
- I can't remember their name off the top of my head, but I watched a really, a really good documentary movie. I should know their name, I watched "Nomadland." I'm not sure if you've seen that, but the director told a story and was using kind of real everyday people they found. And it was just a really, really beautiful, a really beautiful movie. And I guess maybe that's where I'm getting pulled in the direction of next, but in terms of like a more, more classic kind of like photographer, there's a lady called Lauren Greenfield and she did a fantastic book which has been a recurring kind of thing through her life and it's called "Generation Wealth." If there's kind of one book I recommend to people that kind of reflects society and has like really cool photography and it's just kind of risky, you know, she's out there in these situations as well. I like photographers who take risks and are really kinda out there. Yeah. That's pretty cool. And then for third one, I guess Sebastiao Salgado who's just epic. He's got heaps of books. He's reinvented himself a couple of times and yeah. Yeah. And black and white, not colour, which is really cool.
- Awesome. So another one is, can you remember the first photo you ever took. The first photo that you're aware of, like that connection of like, oh, I'm taking a photo.
- Yeah. Strangely, because it gets brought up all the time by my grandmother. So I, you know, I do a lot of photography now, but we were, I was four years old and it was down in Tasmania and went on like a little family holiday. It was just my nan, my mom, and myself. And I took a portrait of mum and nan and I'm not sure where it is, but I've got it tucked away somewhere. That was strangely the first photo. Yeah.
- That's awesome. So and they're still subjects today for you.
- Yeah.
- Inspirations for you. Yeah, funnily enough. I really gotta dig up that image actually and probably scan it and make sure it doesn't get lost.
- Yeah, I was interested if you could remember that first photo you ever took, so that's a nice memory.
- There's a big gap. There's that image, and then I think fast forward to when I was eight years old and I won a Nickelodeon competition and I got a camera and I went and photographed my friend's soccer practise. It's a big gap, but those are the two that come to mind.
- It was your destiny to be a photographer, eh? By the sounds of it?
- Maybe. It's the only thing I'm good at.
- Yeah.
- Can't say much for my other pursuits.
- All right. So next one's easy. Well somewhat easy. Might be hard for you is dream subject or subjects. You can pick a few if you want, if you could photograph anyone in the world.
- Well, that's an interesting one. I kind of changed my mind in a sense where kind of current affairs or news or things really kind of take my attention. It's like, wow, I'd love it if I could just, you know, boom, few weeks, few weeks there. I guess it kind of suits my attention and workflow. I'm trying to think what group. I mean, it's a really tricky one. I kind of really enjoy what I'm doing at the moment. I know it sounds a bit tacky, but just down at Waterloo, 'cause a dream subject kind of has like, I guess a fame or a celebrity attached to it, when the sort of people I look for aren't that at all. And maybe they've missed the boat kind of thing, but often not. Often, they kind of have chosen a more, a less infamous life, I guess. That's a good question. It's a really, really good question.
- Maybe it's just your next subject, hey? All of them are dream subjects really when it comes down to it.
- Yeah. Yeah. That's a really cool, I mean, I really like, and I want to go do this again, is I was taking a series on holy men and holy women when I was younger. I was just backpacking around taking photos of, you know, people in the Ganges, I went to Japan, went to a mountain, White Horse Mountain, outside of Wuhan before it was popular or on the news. And I took a bunch of terrible photos, but I learned a lot in that process and I'd love to, I guess, you know, like semi-retired age kind of go there and just kind of spend, what I liked about that project is I was just kind of living very meekly, you know, very cheap hotel, very basic food and accommodation, and I'd go out at dawn, photograph, come back, look at photos, nap, go out in the afternoon, you know, photograph, come back. It was just, yeah, it was really cool. I guess I'd love to revisit that later in life when I've a different mindset. I feel like it's a really cool project to come back to maybe when I'm in my twilight years.
- Yeah, I identify with that. It's sorta like when I go on trainings in Thailand, you know, you're out in the middle of nowhere, you know, really basic accommodation and food, get us training twice a day, sleeping, and just dedicated to that one purpose, and that's sometimes the happiest I've ever been.
- Yeah! Yeah, yeah. Definitely yeah. Whatever it is I need to be immersed. Very immersed, no phone, you know?
- Yeah, yeah. It's a nice life to live. So we're getting towards the end. So, and you can take your time with this one, is any shout outs or thank yous you want to pass on to anyone out there?
- Yeah. I have them written down here as well. I think I mentioned them earlier, but gee, goodness. Okay. I guess I'll just start off the top there. Where are we? Please hold. I got a lot of scrambling notes. Yeah, so definitely the farmers that had us there, which were the Kalishes, and then there was also Rhonda, Tony, and Mark as well. We went to two other farms. So there was the team at BPAY, which was, where is it? Dom, Brit, and Sarah. There was Slater at Sun Studios that printed it, she did an awesome job with the photo. There was Esil Salair and Doug Hamilton at BMF who got us involved, and there's Rural Aid, I didn't have a direct contact with Rural Aid, but I definitely want to thank them, and I've been donating some print sales proceeds towards them, so we raised three grand so far, which is cool. Of course there was Kara Barkley who was directing and Campbell Brown who's the DOP in the commercial. Goodness. I mean, outside of that, there's a bunch of mentors, but yeah, even, you know the very simple one too, of like, you know, my grandmother for being my biggest fan and mom for always encouraging me as well. Yeah. And of course the National Portrait Gallery for the commitment they've had to putting this on for so long that it's become what it is now and has that kind of importance, you know, amongst the, not just the photography community, but the Australian community as well, and hopefully a bit of international community as well. Yeah, which is cool. But yeah, I guess I think I'll just keep it short. There's lots of mentors and I chatted with them at lengths over the phone since that, but they very much know who they are, but yeah, so a big, special thanks to them in general, as I wouldn't be the sort of person I was if it wasn't for really good teachers along the way that helped me and presented the information for me in a way that I could make the right decisions when those kinds of tricky forks in the roads happen and, you know.
- Perfect. Perfect. All right, last one. Is there any, well, this is like Joe Bradley's parting words of wisdom.
- Parting words of wisdom. I guess it comes back to what I was saying before, like persistence is one thing, but you know, taking risks and being aware and I guess taking risks in regard to, you know, you might have a lot of doubts, you might not have much financial backing, it might be a project that really doesn't make sense to too many other people except yourself at the time, and you just have to persist and follow through with these things. Even if at the time it's not a great idea, I find that when I'm working and doing the process, it leads to better ideas than I could've ever imagined. And then that way I don't project, you know, this preconceived idea onto something. I just have a rough idea, and then when I'm photographing it, I'm kind of processing stuff, and then hopefully that leads back into what I'm photographing and whatever it is, it takes on a deeper meaning and yeah, more authentic meaning as well. So I guess that's my parting wisdom. Oh, and the awareness too. Sorry. So yeah, just being aware as well and making sure you seize those moments because I feel like in the past, there's a lot of moments I've missed because I've had this idea and I haven't taken on any feedback. I'm just going to get something and it hasn't worked out when other times a really good portrait or a story might just present itself or play out in front of you and that's when you can get a really good image that is better than you could have imagined that shows it in its kind of best light and has a good outreach to people with its message as well. Yeah.
- So being present, right?
- Yes, yes. Being present and yeah, making mistakes and just taking on information in the environment, like just, yeah, like being aware, taking it on, changing your approach or the direction of the story is very important.
