WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.100 --> 00:00:08.520 Hello and welcome everyone. 2 00:00:08.520 --> 00:00:10.810 It's great to see you all streaming in 3 00:00:10.810 --> 00:00:15.370 from all over Australia and probably overseas as well. 4 00:00:15.370 --> 00:00:16.490 My name's Robert, 5 00:00:16.490 --> 00:00:20.440 I'm here at the National Portrait Gallery of Australia, 6 00:00:20.440 --> 00:00:24.810 by the banks of the beautiful Lake Burley Gryphon. 7 00:00:24.810 --> 00:00:26.390 It's my job to welcome you 8 00:00:26.390 --> 00:00:28.970 and to give you a few housekeeping tips 9 00:00:28.970 --> 00:00:31.820 before we get underway with our in conversation 10 00:00:31.820 --> 00:00:34.400 with photographer, Polly Borland. 11 00:00:34.400 --> 00:00:38.060 We're very excited Polly's online from LA. 12 00:00:38.060 --> 00:00:40.330 And just before we get started, 13 00:00:40.330 --> 00:00:43.170 if you'd like to be part of the conversation, 14 00:00:43.170 --> 00:00:44.920 why don't you use the chat function, 15 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:47.830 which you can probably find at the bottom of your screen, 16 00:00:47.830 --> 00:00:52.550 if you're on a laptop, and if you wanna get started, 17 00:00:52.550 --> 00:00:54.920 why not put into the chat function 18 00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:56.570 where you're dialling in from today? 19 00:00:56.570 --> 00:00:58.120 'Cause we're always very excited 20 00:00:58.120 --> 00:00:59.943 to see our geographic reach. 21 00:01:01.090 --> 00:01:04.680 We have got live captions today, machine generated. 22 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:07.300 So they're not always perfectly accurate, 23 00:01:07.300 --> 00:01:09.550 but if you'd like to access those, 24 00:01:09.550 --> 00:01:14.550 go to the live transcript button in your Zoom menu as well. 25 00:01:14.970 --> 00:01:16.920 We are recording today's session, 26 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:19.740 it'll probably appear on our website at some stage, 27 00:01:19.740 --> 00:01:21.083 so just be aware of that. 28 00:01:24.100 --> 00:01:25.950 Today, we're broadcasting 29 00:01:25.950 --> 00:01:28.610 from the National Portrait Gallery itself, 30 00:01:28.610 --> 00:01:29.960 and we are on the lands 31 00:01:29.960 --> 00:01:32.490 of the and Ngunnawal and Namadgi peoples. 32 00:01:32.490 --> 00:01:36.850 And I'd like to acknowledge their elders past, present, 33 00:01:36.850 --> 00:01:40.850 and emerging and acknowledge their continuing connection 34 00:01:40.850 --> 00:01:42.770 to the lands and the waters and the communities 35 00:01:42.770 --> 00:01:45.683 and the skies of this beautiful Canberra region. 36 00:01:46.800 --> 00:01:48.530 So without any further ado, 37 00:01:48.530 --> 00:01:51.180 I'm going to cross over now to Gill, 38 00:01:51.180 --> 00:01:55.683 who's gonna be in conversation with Polly in Los Angeles. 39 00:01:57.100 --> 00:01:58.530 Thanks so much, Robert, 40 00:01:58.530 --> 00:02:00.730 thank you for that lovely introduction. 41 00:02:00.730 --> 00:02:03.730 And I would like to extend an extremely warm welcome. 42 00:02:03.730 --> 00:02:06.150 It's a bit warmer here than it is there, I'm afraid 43 00:02:06.150 --> 00:02:07.590 to see the wonderful Polly Borland 44 00:02:07.590 --> 00:02:10.500 line:15% and Polly, thank you so much for joining us today. 45 00:02:10.500 --> 00:02:11.693 line:15% Thanks for having me. 46 00:02:13.400 --> 00:02:16.660 line:15% Polly, I think my love affair with your work 47 00:02:16.660 --> 00:02:19.760 line:15% began all the way back in 2001, 48 00:02:19.760 --> 00:02:21.320 line:15% when the National Portrait Gallery, 49 00:02:21.320 --> 00:02:23.900 line:15% before it was in the building that you see behind me here, 50 00:02:23.900 --> 00:02:26.080 line:15% we didn't have a purpose built building at that time 51 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:30.270 line:15% back in 2001, we were smushed in with old parliament house, 52 00:02:30.270 --> 00:02:32.940 line:15% but we were known for our cutting-edge 53 00:02:32.940 --> 00:02:34.460 line:15% and our exciting exhibitions. 54 00:02:34.460 --> 00:02:37.200 line:15% And one of those exhibitions was called Australians 55 00:02:37.200 --> 00:02:41.740 line:15% and it was a whole raft of portraits by Polly Borland. 56 00:02:41.740 --> 00:02:45.460 line:15% So Polly, would you like to maybe give a little intro 57 00:02:45.460 --> 00:02:47.480 line:15% to our audiences a little bit about yourself 58 00:02:47.480 --> 00:02:49.910 line:15% and then we might jump into some of those images 59 00:02:49.910 --> 00:02:53.470 line:15% that were featured in that Australians exhibition? 60 00:02:53.470 --> 00:02:55.203 Yeah, so, okay. 61 00:02:55.203 --> 00:02:59.190 Well, I studied in Melbourne Australia. 62 00:02:59.190 --> 00:03:03.860 My memory of dates and years is not brilliant, 63 00:03:03.860 --> 00:03:06.240 but it was the early eighties. 64 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:11.157 And I was studying at Parang college, which is now the BCI. 65 00:03:12.010 --> 00:03:17.010 And I was an art college, which had fine art sculpture, 66 00:03:19.130 --> 00:03:22.420 printmaking, all sorts of different mediums 67 00:03:22.420 --> 00:03:23.800 and they had photography. 68 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:28.800 So I studied there and in those days it was only a diploma. 69 00:03:30.090 --> 00:03:31.930 So I got a diploma of photography, 70 00:03:31.930 --> 00:03:35.780 but we had brilliant lecturers 71 00:03:35.780 --> 00:03:39.900 and they are all working in their various fields 72 00:03:39.900 --> 00:03:43.100 of photography and film. 73 00:03:43.100 --> 00:03:44.900 We had some filmmakers as well. 74 00:03:44.900 --> 00:03:46.730 So that's where I started. 75 00:03:46.730 --> 00:03:50.160 I actually, before that, I started in high school. 76 00:03:50.160 --> 00:03:55.160 I went to a school called Tenedon up in the hills 77 00:03:55.250 --> 00:03:58.940 and it was a hippie school and I loved art history 78 00:04:00.220 --> 00:04:03.235 but I felt that I couldn't draw paint. 79 00:04:03.235 --> 00:04:04.540 And in those days when you studied art history, 80 00:04:04.540 --> 00:04:07.280 you had to be able to do a practical subject as well 81 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:09.440 at IHSC level. 82 00:04:09.440 --> 00:04:13.530 And so one day the teacher said to me, well, 83 00:04:13.530 --> 00:04:15.340 if you don't feel you can draw paint, 84 00:04:15.340 --> 00:04:17.220 why don't I set up a dark for you? 85 00:04:17.220 --> 00:04:19.310 So actually that's where it all started. 86 00:04:19.310 --> 00:04:21.970 At the end of my high school years, 87 00:04:21.970 --> 00:04:26.570 I started taking photos and I've been taking photos 88 00:04:26.570 --> 00:04:29.173 for probably about 40 years now. 89 00:04:30.450 --> 00:04:32.960 And I'm still shooting film. 90 00:04:32.960 --> 00:04:35.200 So that's really where I started. 91 00:04:35.200 --> 00:04:39.300 And portraits came first will fashion and portraits. 92 00:04:39.300 --> 00:04:44.230 I gave away the fashion when I moved to England 93 00:04:44.230 --> 00:04:47.350 and started doing mainly portraits 94 00:04:47.350 --> 00:04:50.750 and repertory for magazines. 95 00:04:50.750 --> 00:04:53.330 So I was sort of an editorial photographer, 96 00:04:53.330 --> 00:04:58.330 but my always my first blog or my first intention 97 00:04:59.140 --> 00:05:01.080 was really to exhibit my work, 98 00:05:01.080 --> 00:05:05.530 but people were always central to my practise. 99 00:05:05.530 --> 00:05:10.140 So that's really where I started. 100 00:05:10.140 --> 00:05:12.390 And the Australians came about 101 00:05:12.390 --> 00:05:15.320 because of the National Portrait Gallery in London 102 00:05:15.320 --> 00:05:18.960 used to buy some of my portraits and day. 103 00:05:18.960 --> 00:05:21.560 I had a very good relationship with Terrence Pepper, 104 00:05:21.560 --> 00:05:26.560 who was the curator of photography there. 105 00:05:27.580 --> 00:05:31.490 And one day I said to him, so how do you get a show here? 106 00:05:31.490 --> 00:05:33.910 And he went, well, you've got to come up with a good idea. 107 00:05:33.910 --> 00:05:36.520 line:15% And I even think it was his idea 108 00:05:36.520 --> 00:05:41.520 line:15% that I did prominent Australians in London 109 00:05:43.510 --> 00:05:45.350 line:15% or in England that were living in England. 110 00:05:45.350 --> 00:05:48.950 So that's how that all came about. 111 00:05:48.950 --> 00:05:51.740 And of course I snuck a few of my friends in as well. 112 00:05:51.740 --> 00:05:55.533 So yeah, which was great. 113 00:05:57.680 --> 00:05:59.453 So that's how that happened. 114 00:06:01.400 --> 00:06:03.725 line:15% Should we have a little look through some of those images 115 00:06:03.725 --> 00:06:05.432 line:15% because a lot of those actually ended up 116 00:06:05.432 --> 00:06:08.056 line:15% in the National Portrait Gallery of Australia's collection. 117 00:06:08.056 --> 00:06:11.299 line:15% So maybe we can that flick through to the next slide, 118 00:06:11.299 --> 00:06:12.132 line:15% Robert and have a little look through 119 00:06:12.132 --> 00:06:13.370 line:15% some of the selections. 120 00:06:13.370 --> 00:06:15.490 Oh, do you want to talk about Nick first Polly? 121 00:06:15.490 --> 00:06:17.910 Or should we go onto the Australians? 122 00:06:17.910 --> 00:06:22.063 Let's go onto the Australians and then Nick kind of, yeah. 123 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:25.600 Well, this actually wasn't done for the Australians. 124 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:29.280 This was done for a magazine in Australia 125 00:06:29.280 --> 00:06:31.420 line:15% when I was back visiting once 126 00:06:31.420 --> 00:06:36.030 line:15% and Australian Star magazine, I think it was. 127 00:06:36.030 --> 00:06:38.380 line:15% And I hate, they asked me to do 128 00:06:38.380 --> 00:06:43.380 line:15% various Australian music industry people, 129 00:06:43.790 --> 00:06:46.760 line:15% and I managed to get John Farnham, 130 00:06:46.760 --> 00:06:51.023 line:15% which actually I really enjoyed doing. 131 00:06:52.643 --> 00:06:54.990 line:15% And so, yeah, this is one from that, 132 00:06:54.990 --> 00:06:57.440 line:15% but it wasn't actually in the Australian show 133 00:06:57.440 --> 00:06:59.550 line:15% because he never lived in England. 134 00:06:59.550 --> 00:07:03.260 line:15% Although he might've been English by birth. 135 00:07:03.260 --> 00:07:04.093 line:15% I don't know. 136 00:07:04.093 --> 00:07:05.373 line:15% I don't remember that, but. 137 00:07:06.310 --> 00:07:08.330 It hasn't been really distinctive. 138 00:07:08.330 --> 00:07:10.790 I mean, obviously he's lying on a bed of some kind, 139 00:07:10.790 --> 00:07:13.100 so there's a sort of a duner or a bedspread, 140 00:07:13.100 --> 00:07:16.610 but your portraits actually have that distinctive backdrop, 141 00:07:16.610 --> 00:07:19.000 which is very carefully curated by yourself. 142 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:21.210 Was this early in that kind of development 143 00:07:21.210 --> 00:07:23.863 of that amazing backdrop. 144 00:07:24.771 --> 00:07:29.549 It kind of, yeah, so probably was, 145 00:07:29.549 --> 00:07:34.440 and this we found the best location in Melbourne, 146 00:07:34.440 --> 00:07:37.040 but I cannot, it was like an old hotel, 147 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:42.040 but it was all like original deco I was told. 148 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:44.830 I mean, there's a whole lot of other photos from this series 149 00:07:44.830 --> 00:07:47.220 line:15% and they're really like the setting. 150 00:07:47.220 --> 00:07:49.760 line:15% The location was amazing. 151 00:07:49.760 --> 00:07:51.070 line:15% So it was a hotel. 152 00:07:51.070 --> 00:07:53.567 line:15% So this was probably a hotel bed 153 00:07:53.567 --> 00:07:55.650 line:15% and this was probably the bedspread 154 00:07:55.650 --> 00:07:58.180 line:15% on the bed in the hotels. 155 00:07:58.180 --> 00:08:02.110 line:15% So, and I just don't remember the exact details, 156 00:08:02.110 --> 00:08:05.200 line:15% which I'm afraid everyone's gonna have to bear with me. 157 00:08:05.200 --> 00:08:07.990 line:15% 'Cause there's not a lot I remember nowadays, 158 00:08:07.990 --> 00:08:10.900 line:15% but this, I just remember it was art deco. 159 00:08:10.900 --> 00:08:14.280 line:15% It was an incredible setting on of course 160 00:08:16.376 --> 00:08:18.010 line:15% was this in the Australians show. 161 00:08:18.010 --> 00:08:21.410 line:15% It maybe I took this to the Australian show. 162 00:08:21.410 --> 00:08:26.410 line:15% And this was, I'd actually photographed Michael, 163 00:08:27.950 --> 00:08:31.770 line:15% when he was in access, I'd done a music video 164 00:08:31.770 --> 00:08:36.770 line:15% with somebody where it was all stills and I were animated. 165 00:08:36.900 --> 00:08:40.550 line:15% It was, I'm not, yeah, 166 00:08:40.550 --> 00:08:41.740 line:15% I can't remember the name, 167 00:08:41.740 --> 00:08:45.230 line:15% but it was for their breakout hit for America, 168 00:08:45.230 --> 00:08:50.030 line:15% which I think all you need or, something like that. 169 00:08:50.030 --> 00:08:53.860 line:15% And anyways, so I knew Michael, 170 00:08:53.860 --> 00:08:56.810 line:15% this was taken for the Australian. 171 00:08:56.810 --> 00:09:01.130 line:15% Richard Lowenstein was the director of the video. 172 00:09:01.130 --> 00:09:03.510 line:15% Anyway, this was taken for the Australian show 173 00:09:03.510 --> 00:09:07.740 line:15% and I went, he was living with Paula Yachts, 174 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:12.637 line:15% their baby and all their kids in Bob Geldof's house. 175 00:09:15.090 --> 00:09:17.320 Somehow they'd ended up in Bob 176 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:20.060 even though they are all with Bob Geldof, 177 00:09:20.060 --> 00:09:21.750 they'd ended up in Bob Geldof house. 178 00:09:21.750 --> 00:09:25.210 And he was in Michael's house. 179 00:09:25.210 --> 00:09:28.630 And I went there and took this photo. 180 00:09:28.630 --> 00:09:31.750 And this was not long before, 181 00:09:31.750 --> 00:09:34.030 he had that terrible accident. 182 00:09:34.030 --> 00:09:37.830 And then, well, we don't know how he really, 183 00:09:37.830 --> 00:09:40.620 we know how he died, but we don't know. 184 00:09:40.620 --> 00:09:43.910 I don't think we know exactly what happened, 185 00:09:43.910 --> 00:09:46.860 but he was lovely. 186 00:09:46.860 --> 00:09:48.400 That's all I can say about Michael. 187 00:09:48.400 --> 00:09:49.423 line:15% He was lovely. 188 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:54.870 line:15% And this is quite a sort of, 189 00:09:54.870 --> 00:09:57.680 line:15% it's a bit disturbing this portrait. 190 00:09:57.680 --> 00:10:02.680 line:15% It's a little bit religious, I think, 191 00:10:04.090 --> 00:10:07.300 it's quite weird, but I'd kind of gotten into trying 192 00:10:07.300 --> 00:10:11.363 to contort my sitters at that point. 193 00:10:12.230 --> 00:10:14.550 It was sort of a development 194 00:10:14.550 --> 00:10:18.370 that came from make sort of not really 195 00:10:18.370 --> 00:10:22.070 been finding portraiture, creatively satisfying. 196 00:10:22.070 --> 00:10:24.970 So I used to try and get my sitters 197 00:10:24.970 --> 00:10:29.203 in interesting shapes with their bodies. 198 00:10:31.437 --> 00:10:33.760 And that's how this one came about. 199 00:10:34.910 --> 00:10:36.300 That's interesting paper should hold 200 00:10:36.300 --> 00:10:37.730 that thought in their mind too, 201 00:10:37.730 --> 00:10:40.810 because when we go on to look at some in your morph series 202 00:10:40.810 --> 00:10:42.600 line:15% that sort of develops even further, 203 00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:46.690 line:15% but let's have another look at some of the other portraits 204 00:10:46.690 --> 00:10:48.760 line:15% that came out of the Australians exhibition. 205 00:10:48.760 --> 00:10:50.453 line:15% This one is Robert May. 206 00:10:53.030 --> 00:10:56.440 I think he was the chief scientific advisor 207 00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:59.290 to the government at this point. 208 00:10:59.290 --> 00:11:04.290 And we took this in then Natural History Museum in London. 209 00:11:07.690 --> 00:11:12.690 line:15% And this is an Tasmanian, what is it? 210 00:11:14.380 --> 00:11:16.557 line:15% As many endeavour or a, thylacine 211 00:11:16.557 --> 00:11:19.250 line:15% a thylacine says our resident expert on animals. 212 00:11:21.570 --> 00:11:25.220 line:15% I'm not, everything was- 213 00:11:25.220 --> 00:11:30.220 line:15% In those days it was before everything in museums, 214 00:11:31.107 --> 00:11:35.170 line:15% to become a no-no, to, I mean, 215 00:11:35.170 --> 00:11:37.930 line:15% I think I still do probably have stuffed animals. 216 00:11:37.930 --> 00:11:40.900 line:15% Don't go in some museum, but anyway, 217 00:11:40.900 --> 00:11:42.780 line:15% he really didn't want to do this. 218 00:11:42.780 --> 00:11:44.390 line:15% And I managed to get him to do it. 219 00:11:44.390 --> 00:11:45.223 line:15% And I love it. 220 00:11:46.090 --> 00:11:49.010 line:15% He was again, another great person, 221 00:11:49.010 --> 00:11:50.860 line:15% but he really didn't want to do this. 222 00:11:50.860 --> 00:11:53.723 line:15% And somehow I managed to convince him 223 00:11:53.723 --> 00:11:55.180 line:15% that it would be a good idea. 224 00:11:55.180 --> 00:11:56.450 line:15% And so he did it. 225 00:11:56.450 --> 00:12:01.450 line:15% And then of course this was totally Celez Patterson's idea 226 00:12:04.940 --> 00:12:08.675 and of course it is a brilliant photo. 227 00:12:08.675 --> 00:12:12.540 line:15% And I think Barry Humphreys used it in one of his memoirs 228 00:12:13.906 --> 00:12:15.280 line:15% after the fact. 229 00:12:15.280 --> 00:12:18.380 line:15% And so, yeah, I love this photo and I loved him. 230 00:12:18.380 --> 00:12:23.380 line:15% He is one of those people that is funny naturally. 231 00:12:26.920 --> 00:12:29.496 line:15% Like you made a lot of funny people 232 00:12:29.496 --> 00:12:31.560 line:15% that are funny as performers, 233 00:12:31.560 --> 00:12:33.440 line:15% but they're not really funny in real life. 234 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:36.590 line:15% He was naturally funny in real life 235 00:12:36.590 --> 00:12:39.320 line:15% and very charismatic and charming. 236 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:43.150 line:15% So, and he rang me personally to thank me for the photos 237 00:12:43.150 --> 00:12:45.820 line:15% after every time he wanted to use one, 238 00:12:45.820 --> 00:12:49.260 line:15% he rang me and asked me personally, 239 00:12:49.260 --> 00:12:50.893 line:15% if he could use it, 240 00:12:50.893 --> 00:12:52.930 line:15% I think he even ran me the night that I had the opening 241 00:12:52.930 --> 00:12:55.490 line:15% at the National Portrait Gallery in London 242 00:12:55.490 --> 00:12:59.270 line:15% to wish me luck and to say, sorry that he couldn't be there, 243 00:12:59.270 --> 00:13:00.333 line:15% but he was touring. 244 00:13:01.756 --> 00:13:03.640 line:15% He's just the most lovely person. 245 00:13:03.640 --> 00:13:05.290 line:15% So yeah. 246 00:13:05.290 --> 00:13:08.560 line:15% I look at those smooth legs compared to that, 247 00:13:08.560 --> 00:13:12.853 line:15% to the visage it's he's known for is his legs. 248 00:13:14.640 --> 00:13:18.210 line:15% Oh, he's more legs. 249 00:13:18.210 --> 00:13:22.100 And this has got a really interesting story 250 00:13:22.100 --> 00:13:27.100 to it because again, Jemine Christine this photo 251 00:13:27.740 --> 00:13:32.740 has accused, me of manipulating her to be naked 252 00:13:34.140 --> 00:13:35.992 and on the bed, 253 00:13:35.992 --> 00:13:39.350 line:15% it was her idea to be on the bed and her idea 254 00:13:39.350 --> 00:13:40.640 line:15% to be naked on the bed. 255 00:13:40.640 --> 00:13:43.470 line:15% So let's get the record straight. 256 00:13:43.470 --> 00:13:47.120 line:15% Of course, I thought all my Christmases had come once 257 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:51.590 line:15% at once when she offered to be photographed on the bed 258 00:13:51.590 --> 00:13:52.823 line:15% and I could. 259 00:13:54.280 --> 00:13:59.040 line:15% And then the Sun newspaper in London 260 00:13:59.040 --> 00:14:02.480 line:15% who was known in those days for their page three girls 261 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:06.390 line:15% wanted to publish this as their page three girl, 262 00:14:06.390 --> 00:14:08.760 line:15% this photo of just your mind Greer. 263 00:14:08.760 --> 00:14:10.310 line:15% And she was really up for it. 264 00:14:10.310 --> 00:14:12.230 line:15% But I said, no, we can't do that. 265 00:14:12.230 --> 00:14:15.460 line:15% That's really demeaning of you and the photo. 266 00:14:15.460 --> 00:14:18.000 line:15% So I refused to let them do it. 267 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:21.040 line:15% And I think there was another tabloid that did publish it 268 00:14:21.040 --> 00:14:26.040 line:15% without permission, as in another instance. 269 00:14:26.940 --> 00:14:31.940 line:15% But since she said that I, manipulated her, 270 00:14:32.620 --> 00:14:36.310 line:15% but she also has been interviewed years and years ago 271 00:14:36.310 --> 00:14:39.010 line:15% saying that I think Diane Arbus 272 00:14:39.010 --> 00:14:41.410 when Diane Arbus took her photo, 273 00:14:41.410 --> 00:14:43.500 Diane Arbus manipulated her too, 274 00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:45.550 into doing something that she didn't want to do. 275 00:14:45.550 --> 00:14:49.680 But anyway, this was total gold 276 00:14:51.128 --> 00:14:56.128 that a dream come through for Jemine agreeing to do that. 277 00:14:56.790 --> 00:14:58.440 And this is Elle McPherson. 278 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:00.723 I had to go to the Elle in Switzerland. 279 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:06.800 It was very stressful. 280 00:15:06.800 --> 00:15:11.800 But again, I really like this picture 281 00:15:12.330 --> 00:15:14.090 it's good to say. 282 00:15:14.090 --> 00:15:19.080 I really, she wanted to wear a cowboy hat 283 00:15:20.300 --> 00:15:24.020 line:15% and I said, no, I really not. 284 00:15:24.020 --> 00:15:25.170 line:15% That's not. 285 00:15:25.170 --> 00:15:27.173 line:15% And she said, oh, I'm thinking. 286 00:15:30.170 --> 00:15:34.310 line:15% She said, I was thinking of in pen. 287 00:15:34.310 --> 00:15:36.313 line:15% And she was thinking, 288 00:15:38.120 --> 00:15:39.490 line:15% who's the photographer that used 289 00:15:39.490 --> 00:15:41.573 line:15% to use all his dogs in them. 290 00:15:43.040 --> 00:15:44.510 line:15% And he used to anyway, 291 00:15:44.510 --> 00:15:46.560 line:15% she was thinking of a totally different, 292 00:15:46.560 --> 00:15:47.490 line:15% maybe even her Brits. 293 00:15:47.490 --> 00:15:48.630 line:15% She was thinking over Brits, 294 00:15:48.630 --> 00:15:50.280 line:15% And I was thinking over in pen, 295 00:15:50.280 --> 00:15:54.090 anyway, she came around to having, Penn in the end 296 00:15:54.090 --> 00:15:57.400 line:15% And then all that contortion going on in there as well. 297 00:15:57.400 --> 00:15:59.663 line:15% Exactly, she's got no arms. 298 00:16:03.580 --> 00:16:05.170 line:15% This classic. 299 00:16:05.170 --> 00:16:07.973 Yeah, so, well, this is the queen 300 00:16:13.850 --> 00:16:18.030 weirdly came about through the Australians show 301 00:16:22.180 --> 00:16:25.630 line:15% because there was a lot of Australians working 302 00:16:25.630 --> 00:16:30.630 line:15% in the publicity department at the palace. 303 00:16:30.920 --> 00:16:32.760 line:15% That's how you get into the palace. 304 00:16:32.760 --> 00:16:36.570 line:15% Yeah, and I think even the head publicity person 305 00:16:36.570 --> 00:16:39.620 line:15% who, again, the name, although he's actually 306 00:16:39.620 --> 00:16:43.490 line:15% I photographed him for this collection actually, 307 00:16:43.490 --> 00:16:45.430 line:15% but I can't remember his name. 308 00:16:45.430 --> 00:16:50.430 line:15% He was also the head of the publicity department. 309 00:16:51.500 --> 00:16:55.700 line:15% but it was a younger girl and the remit 310 00:16:55.700 --> 00:16:58.810 line:15% for the golden Jubilee was let's get some younger people 311 00:16:58.810 --> 00:17:03.810 line:15% in to photograph the coin women and also people 312 00:17:03.890 --> 00:17:04.920 line:15% from the Commonwealth. 313 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.149 line:15% So I qualified on, 314 00:17:07.149 --> 00:17:08.930 I don't think I was particularly young at this point, 315 00:17:08.930 --> 00:17:12.270 but I qualified on two counts. 316 00:17:12.270 --> 00:17:15.490 I was Australian and I was a woman. 317 00:17:15.490 --> 00:17:18.340 And so that's how I got to take this photo. 318 00:17:18.340 --> 00:17:22.140 And probably, there's a lot of written accounts 319 00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:24.870 of what happened, but it was extremely stressful. 320 00:17:24.870 --> 00:17:27.960 I only had five minutes. 321 00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:29.510 I did two set ups. 322 00:17:29.510 --> 00:17:33.360 I thought I'd get 10 rolls of film five on each 323 00:17:33.360 --> 00:17:38.360 and I only got two rolls of film on each background. 324 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:43.750 And yeah. 325 00:17:43.750 --> 00:17:47.390 line:15% And then this was a tapestry that was made from the photo, 326 00:17:47.390 --> 00:17:50.220 line:15% but this is the wrong side of the tapestry. 327 00:17:50.220 --> 00:17:53.600 line:15% And the tapestries were made years and years later 328 00:17:55.120 --> 00:17:56.260 from the photo. 329 00:17:56.260 --> 00:18:00.130 And this was shown in Los Angeles. 330 00:18:00.130 --> 00:18:02.490 There was a whole series of these 331 00:18:02.490 --> 00:18:05.750 and they all look different from the wrong side 332 00:18:05.750 --> 00:18:07.900 because they're all different stitches 333 00:18:07.900 --> 00:18:11.460 that had stitched them in the stitches of prisoners 334 00:18:11.460 --> 00:18:14.150 that work, they get paid, 335 00:18:14.150 --> 00:18:19.150 line:15% they work stitching for charity called Fine Cell Work. 336 00:18:22.840 --> 00:18:25.530 line:15% And they have been going into prisons, 337 00:18:25.530 --> 00:18:30.530 line:15% teaching female and male prisoners to do stitching 338 00:18:31.260 --> 00:18:34.840 line:15% tapestries as more of a therapeutic thing 339 00:18:34.840 --> 00:18:39.331 line:15% that they do get paid and they're taught the craft. 340 00:18:39.331 --> 00:18:41.330 And then they do a lot of things like the cushions 341 00:18:41.330 --> 00:18:42.163 for the BNI. 342 00:18:43.256 --> 00:18:44.420 Like they actually work. 343 00:18:44.420 --> 00:18:47.480 And I think cushions for the Catholic church. 344 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:50.180 Like they do a lot of work that is, 345 00:18:50.180 --> 00:18:52.910 and other artists use them as well. 346 00:18:52.910 --> 00:18:54.440 But anyway, the good news is they get paid 347 00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:56.700 and they get taught a craft 348 00:18:56.700 --> 00:19:00.023 and a lot of them come out of prison and continue to do it. 349 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:04.673 line:15% So, and then this was the other photo I did of the queen. 350 00:19:06.250 --> 00:19:08.193 line:15% And this one she was quite shocked about 351 00:19:08.193 --> 00:19:13.130 line:15% when she looked back, she went, oh, she was surprised 352 00:19:13.130 --> 00:19:15.470 line:15% by the gold glitter, 353 00:19:15.470 --> 00:19:18.680 line:15% but she was faced by the I think the kind 354 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:21.720 line:15% of modernist take of this. 355 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:26.090 This is Marianne Mecca fabric and Martin Grant actually, 356 00:19:26.090 --> 00:19:27.650 who's a really good friend of mine. 357 00:19:27.650 --> 00:19:32.410 Who's a fashion designer who now lives in Paris, 358 00:19:32.410 --> 00:19:33.243 he's Australian. 359 00:19:33.243 --> 00:19:35.230 He suggested this fabric. 360 00:19:35.230 --> 00:19:38.130 line:15% And I thought it was very fitting because it was a nod 361 00:19:42.550 --> 00:19:44.830 line:15% to Cecil Beaton who used 362 00:19:44.830 --> 00:19:47.840 line:15% to do a lot of floral painted backgrounds. 363 00:19:47.840 --> 00:19:51.395 line:15% And he was obviously the Royal photographer for years 364 00:19:51.395 --> 00:19:53.123 line:15% and years and years. 365 00:19:53.123 --> 00:19:56.300 line:15% So it was kind of my updated version on his work. 366 00:19:56.300 --> 00:19:57.393 line:15% So, yeah. 367 00:20:00.230 --> 00:20:05.230 Fantastic, and here's the gold Lamaze come out 368 00:20:05.770 --> 00:20:07.393 again for this one. 369 00:20:07.393 --> 00:20:11.580 Different gold lame but same idea. 370 00:20:11.580 --> 00:20:16.580 And this was taken just after everything happened to Monica 371 00:20:17.810 --> 00:20:22.810 and I was working with a journalist 372 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:24.850 line:15% who was the only person in England 373 00:20:24.850 --> 00:20:26.701 line:15% to get an interview with her. 374 00:20:26.701 --> 00:20:28.653 line:15% And I managed to get to do the photo. 375 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:31.930 line:15% What a cracker of a photo Polly? 376 00:20:31.930 --> 00:20:34.050 I mean that expression. 377 00:20:34.050 --> 00:20:35.880 Yeah, yeah. 378 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:37.310 And she was on the stage. 379 00:20:37.310 --> 00:20:40.820 She'd arrived in England, and all the tabloid press 380 00:20:40.820 --> 00:20:43.090 were after her and calling her fat. 381 00:20:43.090 --> 00:20:44.173 And it was awful. 382 00:20:45.270 --> 00:20:46.990 We nearly didn't get to do it 383 00:20:46.990 --> 00:20:51.990 because she's so upset by the British press's treatment. 384 00:20:53.370 --> 00:20:56.660 Although, I mean, I don't know what they really liked now. 385 00:20:56.660 --> 00:20:58.240 I'm sure they're just as visual. 386 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:02.443 They are as vicious it's Murdoch, 387 00:21:07.976 --> 00:21:09.770 line:15% she was having a really hard time. 388 00:21:09.770 --> 00:21:11.500 line:15% And also she'd just been through 389 00:21:11.500 --> 00:21:14.493 line:15% what she'd been through, as well. 390 00:21:15.653 --> 00:21:18.563 line:15% She was pretty upset, yeah. 391 00:21:22.230 --> 00:21:25.750 line:15% Yeah, and so the backdrops by now 392 00:21:25.750 --> 00:21:27.950 line:15% had family cemented themselves 393 00:21:27.950 --> 00:21:30.583 line:15% as something that's integral to your work. 394 00:21:31.510 --> 00:21:34.080 line:15% Is that something that's continued on into other series 395 00:21:34.080 --> 00:21:37.060 line:15% or have you shifted now towards other ways 396 00:21:37.060 --> 00:21:40.863 line:15% or other forms of photography, not just portraiture. 397 00:21:43.672 --> 00:21:47.073 So simultaneously as all of this was going on. 398 00:21:48.543 --> 00:21:50.328 When I was doing the Australians, 399 00:21:50.328 --> 00:21:51.161 I was doing the adult babies, 400 00:21:51.161 --> 00:21:53.130 which I think in the slide, seriously. 401 00:21:53.130 --> 00:21:54.650 Or should skip ahead to the adult babies 402 00:21:54.650 --> 00:21:56.600 and have a look at them now? 403 00:21:56.600 --> 00:21:57.433 Maybe we could do that. 404 00:21:57.433 --> 00:22:00.310 Yep, so we'll just give Robert a second 405 00:22:00.310 --> 00:22:03.100 to bring up the right slide. 406 00:22:03.100 --> 00:22:05.752 Thanks Robert, there we go. 407 00:22:05.752 --> 00:22:09.830 So the adult babies was taken simultaneously 408 00:22:12.536 --> 00:22:14.853 line:15% as I was doing the Australians 409 00:22:19.790 --> 00:22:22.580 line:15% and the book actually of the adult baby 410 00:22:22.580 --> 00:22:26.310 line:15% work came at the same time as the same year 411 00:22:26.310 --> 00:22:29.493 line:15% as the catalogue for the Australians show. 412 00:22:30.500 --> 00:22:32.790 line:15% And this was more, 413 00:22:32.790 --> 00:22:35.520 line:15% I considered more my personal work. 414 00:22:35.520 --> 00:22:40.520 line:15% And so basically, this was more my repertoire Taj 415 00:22:41.280 --> 00:22:43.600 sort of portrait work more the darker side 416 00:22:43.600 --> 00:22:44.433 of what I was doing, 417 00:22:44.433 --> 00:22:46.830 but still very stylized because obviously 418 00:22:46.830 --> 00:22:51.420 it was a very surreal subject matter, 419 00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:54.290 that I was dealing with 420 00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:58.690 and then the next body of work kind, 421 00:22:58.690 --> 00:23:01.550 the portraiture started to page out. 422 00:23:01.550 --> 00:23:05.050 I had my son in 2001. 423 00:23:05.050 --> 00:23:09.260 And so the portrait work didn't really fit 424 00:23:11.490 --> 00:23:14.220 having a child 'cause I used to travel the world, 425 00:23:14.220 --> 00:23:19.220 doing the portrait work and travel a lot within England. 426 00:23:19.890 --> 00:23:22.160 And also I hadn't moved to digital 427 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:24.240 and everything was going digital 428 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:26.500 and I'd kind of gotten burnt out 429 00:23:26.500 --> 00:23:28.020 from all the editorial work. 430 00:23:28.020 --> 00:23:31.170 So I started exclusively more and more 431 00:23:31.170 --> 00:23:33.393 just doing my own work and then came, 432 00:23:34.977 --> 00:23:35.910 what we were at before, 433 00:23:35.910 --> 00:23:38.660 which is that the bunny series, which is the red 434 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:43.850 Robert, if you don't mind going back to the red ones. 435 00:23:43.850 --> 00:23:46.090 Yes, so this, 436 00:23:46.090 --> 00:23:49.970 line:15% I seen Gwendoline Christie who was Brienne of Tarth 437 00:23:49.970 --> 00:23:51.613 line:15% in Game of Thrones. 438 00:23:52.952 --> 00:23:55.710 line:15% I realised make that connection 439 00:23:55.710 --> 00:24:00.710 line:15% She lived in Brighton, England, and she was six foot four. 440 00:24:01.170 --> 00:24:03.070 line:15% And I used to say walking down the street 441 00:24:03.070 --> 00:24:05.870 line:15% and I used to think, oh my God, she's so fascinating. 442 00:24:05.870 --> 00:24:07.210 line:15% She looks incredible. 443 00:24:07.210 --> 00:24:11.740 line:15% And she looked in those days, like a 1950 starlet. 444 00:24:11.740 --> 00:24:16.740 line:15% And so one day I'd had my son, I was thinking, well, 445 00:24:17.123 --> 00:24:18.040 I don't want to travel the world. 446 00:24:18.040 --> 00:24:21.110 I want to be able to fit my work around him. 447 00:24:21.110 --> 00:24:25.230 And so then one day I just sort of got the courage up 448 00:24:25.230 --> 00:24:28.050 and marched into where I figured out where she worked, 449 00:24:28.050 --> 00:24:29.410 because she was very- 450 00:24:29.410 --> 00:24:31.560 Brighton's a small town 451 00:24:31.560 --> 00:24:33.480 and that's where I lived at the time. 452 00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:35.570 And I figured out where she worked, 453 00:24:35.570 --> 00:24:37.870 I'd kind of tracked her down. 454 00:24:37.870 --> 00:24:42.120 And I went in and I said, would you like to be photographed? 455 00:24:42.120 --> 00:24:43.080 I'd love to photograph you 456 00:24:43.080 --> 00:24:44.560 anyway she agreed to it. 457 00:24:44.560 --> 00:24:46.900 And this body I'm in the babies. 458 00:24:46.900 --> 00:24:49.480 I did seven years of work on. 459 00:24:49.480 --> 00:24:50.450 Wow. 460 00:24:50.450 --> 00:24:53.680 And then this body of worked with me five years 461 00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:56.913 and this common I didn't the bunny book, 462 00:24:58.070 --> 00:25:00.950 line:15% 50 images, other criteria, 463 00:25:00.950 --> 00:25:04.010 line:15% which was Damien Hirst company published it. 464 00:25:04.010 --> 00:25:08.720 line:15% And Damien Hirst actually ended up acquiring 465 00:25:09.590 --> 00:25:12.373 line:15% all 50 images for his series. 466 00:25:13.940 --> 00:25:16.670 line:15% And this is sort of like the he always mentioned 467 00:25:16.670 --> 00:25:20.500 line:15% really what we did when, and we ended up, 468 00:25:20.500 --> 00:25:24.110 line:15% I was exploring sort of 1950s pinups at the beginning, 469 00:25:24.110 --> 00:25:26.010 but by the end of it, 470 00:25:26.010 --> 00:25:29.630 we were kind of dressing her up in all different 471 00:25:29.630 --> 00:25:34.333 sort of archetype, the way women are sort of identified, 472 00:25:35.190 --> 00:25:40.150 sort of there my dogs, by the way everyone 473 00:25:40.150 --> 00:25:43.523 I don't quite know what I'm gonna do to keep them quiet. 474 00:25:43.523 --> 00:25:46.143 That's okay, we don't mind having the dogs at all. 475 00:25:47.420 --> 00:25:50.650 And so things like a bunny costume, 476 00:25:50.650 --> 00:25:54.080 there was a pony costume. 477 00:25:54.080 --> 00:25:59.080 There are all different costumes that she moved into. 478 00:25:59.380 --> 00:26:03.060 It became quite experimental in some moments as well. 479 00:26:03.060 --> 00:26:08.060 So that's sort of the whole book and yeah. 480 00:26:08.770 --> 00:26:11.160 Anyway, so that came first. 481 00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:13.600 And then, I mean, we weren't necessarily, 482 00:26:13.600 --> 00:26:17.890 we don't need to go chronological really necessarily next 483 00:26:17.890 --> 00:26:22.890 this work time later, but this is my son, Louise, 484 00:26:23.890 --> 00:26:27.063 line:15% and this was called not good at human. 485 00:26:29.783 --> 00:26:30.740 line:15% I love that. 486 00:26:30.740 --> 00:26:34.893 line:15% Yeah, and this was shown at Sullivan Strunk in Sydney. 487 00:26:36.728 --> 00:26:38.687 line:15% And these also some of these 488 00:26:38.687 --> 00:26:41.283 line:15% who made into tapestries as well. 489 00:26:43.060 --> 00:26:46.570 line:15% And they are also shown at the NGV 490 00:26:47.828 --> 00:26:49.360 line:15% as part of my show in 2018. 491 00:26:53.140 --> 00:26:58.020 line:15% My son is incredible person, 492 00:26:58.020 --> 00:27:03.020 line:15% but he's very unusual and I mean, this is a long time ago 493 00:27:04.760 --> 00:27:07.790 line:15% now he's 20 years old now. 494 00:27:07.790 --> 00:27:08.810 line:15% I can't even remember. 495 00:27:08.810 --> 00:27:11.950 line:15% It would have been maybe 14, 13, 496 00:27:11.950 --> 00:27:14.303 line:15% maybe here 13 probably. 497 00:27:16.180 --> 00:27:18.620 line:15% And the idea was I was gonna sort of photograph him 498 00:27:18.620 --> 00:27:21.020 line:15% through his whole teen years, but that didn't pan out. 499 00:27:21.020 --> 00:27:23.620 line:15% He got bored very quickly. 500 00:27:23.620 --> 00:27:25.500 line:15% He was like, no, I'm not into this. 501 00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:30.500 line:15% So it's sort of only lasted maybe sporadically over a year. 502 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:37.400 And when that one's really sort of evokes a lot, really. 503 00:27:40.290 --> 00:27:42.860 So, and this was, was this we'll know 504 00:27:43.864 --> 00:27:48.200 when really was the beginning of the use of stockings work? 505 00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:53.200 And then when we get to, I don't know what's next? 506 00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:54.630 What do have we got? 507 00:27:54.630 --> 00:27:58.053 Oh yeah, this is still not good at human. 508 00:27:59.690 --> 00:28:04.163 line:15% So we sort of moving into morph after not good at human. 509 00:28:05.630 --> 00:28:09.500 All right, the babies, that's the instant. 510 00:28:09.500 --> 00:28:13.830 line:15% That was the show in London, by the way 511 00:28:13.830 --> 00:28:18.830 line:15% was I think, no, if we go that's morph, 512 00:28:20.360 --> 00:28:21.710 line:15% I mean, I can go into morph 513 00:28:21.710 --> 00:28:26.620 line:15% Now this was the 2018 work that I produced specifically 514 00:28:26.620 --> 00:28:31.620 line:15% for the NGV and yeah, NGV in Melbourne. 515 00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:33.510 line:15% And this is called morph 516 00:28:33.510 --> 00:28:37.053 line:15% and this was sort of the penultimate stocking use. 517 00:28:38.051 --> 00:28:41.813 line:15% And this came about because I really wanted to reduce 518 00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:45.330 line:15% the visual language. 519 00:28:45.330 --> 00:28:49.163 line:15% So I sort of even though you can see a figure in there, 520 00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:51.980 line:15% if we keep going Robert, 521 00:28:51.980 --> 00:28:56.500 line:15% a lot of the, and you can see a figure in that one, 522 00:28:56.500 --> 00:28:58.770 line:15% but a lot of them, you can't really tell 523 00:28:58.770 --> 00:29:03.110 line:15% what there's a human in them in the costumes. 524 00:29:03.110 --> 00:29:07.100 line:15% And basically I'm creating soft sculpture on the spot 525 00:29:07.100 --> 00:29:09.330 line:15% around a live model. 526 00:29:09.330 --> 00:29:12.240 line:15% And for instance, there's a person in there. 527 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:16.450 line:15% So this was a whole book guy in about 50 photos. 528 00:29:16.450 --> 00:29:18.453 line:15% There's a person in there as well. 529 00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:21.683 line:15% And so that was morph. 530 00:29:23.555 --> 00:29:25.870 line:15% And that was commissioned for the Polybius exhibition. 531 00:29:25.870 --> 00:29:28.810 Was it Polly at the NGV? . 532 00:29:28.810 --> 00:29:30.290 It wasn't really commissioned, 533 00:29:30.290 --> 00:29:35.290 but I did it to kind of be the main body 534 00:29:35.790 --> 00:29:37.510 of the exhibition. 535 00:29:37.510 --> 00:29:41.590 I did also a morph film, which was done 536 00:29:41.590 --> 00:29:44.443 and then the other work was sort of, 537 00:29:45.290 --> 00:29:46.940 we didn't have babies in there, 538 00:29:46.940 --> 00:29:50.870 but we had all Bonnie, we had not good at human. 539 00:29:50.870 --> 00:29:52.410 We had a lot of the tapestries. 540 00:29:52.410 --> 00:29:54.523 We had the Nick blue. 541 00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:03.000 So we had the tapestries and these were double sided 542 00:30:03.770 --> 00:30:05.140 line:15% in the exhibition. 543 00:30:05.140 --> 00:30:09.367 line:15% So there was the right side and the wrong side. 544 00:30:14.150 --> 00:30:16.250 line:15% Whereas the queen ones, 545 00:30:16.250 --> 00:30:18.760 line:15% you can see maybe different in texture 546 00:30:20.561 --> 00:30:23.210 line:15% and they're like the patterns made from a photograph. 547 00:30:23.210 --> 00:30:25.033 line:15% So they're originally a photo. 548 00:30:26.421 --> 00:30:30.700 And I just, someone found in a crop shop years ago, for me, 549 00:30:30.700 --> 00:30:32.910 stitch your photo, it's called. 550 00:30:32.910 --> 00:30:35.230 So a lot of people get their portraits made 551 00:30:35.230 --> 00:30:39.480 or they get a pattern from their little family portraits 552 00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:42.340 and they do stitching to create the portrait, 553 00:30:42.340 --> 00:30:44.490 but in tapestry form. 554 00:30:44.490 --> 00:30:47.610 And I thought, well, I'll apply that to my own work. 555 00:30:47.610 --> 00:30:52.610 So I don't know if we jumping too much all over the place. 556 00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:54.690 I mean, I can follow, 557 00:30:54.690 --> 00:30:58.443 but I've just hope everyone else can, are you following? 558 00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:01.820 Yeah, well, I think we're all following along. 559 00:31:01.820 --> 00:31:04.360 I haven't got any questions yet, through on the chat Polly, 560 00:31:04.360 --> 00:31:07.700 but if anyone out there, either in Zoom or on Facebook 561 00:31:07.700 --> 00:31:09.670 line:15% would like to ask Polly a question, 562 00:31:09.670 --> 00:31:12.340 line:15% please do shoot them through on the chat function. 563 00:31:12.340 --> 00:31:16.830 line:15% And I'll make sure that I get those questions to Polly. 564 00:31:16.830 --> 00:31:19.800 line:15% Polly, there was a, a lovely quote. 565 00:31:19.800 --> 00:31:23.350 And I usually don't like digging up old quotes 566 00:31:23.350 --> 00:31:26.710 from the past, but I will this time 567 00:31:26.710 --> 00:31:28.080 just because it seemed so, 568 00:31:28.080 --> 00:31:32.300 but when you had your work at the Australians exhibition 569 00:31:32.300 --> 00:31:34.070 at the National Portrait Gallery in Canberra, 570 00:31:34.070 --> 00:31:36.810 there was a quote that we got from you at that time 571 00:31:36.810 --> 00:31:39.670 back in 2001 saying "the best portraiture 572 00:31:39.670 --> 00:31:41.830 is when you get beneath the skin of someone 573 00:31:41.830 --> 00:31:44.510 and you penetrate beneath the surface". 574 00:31:44.510 --> 00:31:47.613 And it just seemed to me that those morph works, 575 00:31:48.600 --> 00:31:51.310 or that morph series is very kind of visceral 576 00:31:52.896 --> 00:31:55.725 it's almost as though the body has been removed of the skin 577 00:31:55.725 --> 00:31:57.690 line:15% and you're seeing the internal organs moving around. 578 00:31:57.690 --> 00:31:59.780 line:15% You could almost imagine that. 579 00:31:59.780 --> 00:32:02.680 line:15% I was just wondering if you had any comments on that shift 580 00:32:04.479 --> 00:32:05.979 below the surface? 581 00:32:06.910 --> 00:32:09.800 Yeah, I think that was probably done subconsciously, 582 00:32:09.800 --> 00:32:14.170 but I do think that I became less interested 583 00:32:14.170 --> 00:32:19.170 in the external sort of identifying marks of a human 584 00:32:20.570 --> 00:32:25.280 or an animal, for instance, like this rabbit 585 00:32:25.280 --> 00:32:27.680 was done for smudge, 586 00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:32.420 which came directly after the bunny series 587 00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:36.790 and smudge, I started trying to sort 588 00:32:36.790 --> 00:32:41.790 line:15% of subvert animal forms, 589 00:32:42.730 --> 00:32:46.630 line:15% and then it very quickly grew into something like this. 590 00:32:46.630 --> 00:32:48.740 line:15% So this is part of the same series, 591 00:32:48.740 --> 00:32:53.170 line:15% but then I started to create my own creatures. 592 00:32:53.170 --> 00:32:55.650 line:15% So that was and again identifiable, 593 00:32:55.650 --> 00:32:58.900 line:15% but it's almost like there's a pig nose here 594 00:32:58.900 --> 00:33:00.740 line:15% this sort of ware wolf will mask. 595 00:33:01.890 --> 00:33:04.397 And then there's this sort of, 596 00:33:04.397 --> 00:33:06.940 I don't even know if it's a dog or a dog costume. 597 00:33:06.940 --> 00:33:10.020 I used to go to the costume houses and hard costumes 598 00:33:10.020 --> 00:33:12.600 and then I'd make up whatever I wanted, 599 00:33:12.600 --> 00:33:15.430 but quickly that became quite limiting. 600 00:33:15.430 --> 00:33:18.370 So then I went into the realms of the imagination, 601 00:33:18.370 --> 00:33:21.493 which became the next steps. 602 00:33:26.360 --> 00:33:29.583 So, which if we keep going on this series. 603 00:33:32.870 --> 00:33:34.797 I think they're the only ones 604 00:33:34.797 --> 00:33:36.803 that we have from that series in there. 605 00:33:36.803 --> 00:33:37.636 Really? 606 00:33:38.670 --> 00:33:41.150 line:15% We were just wondering whether we had a question 607 00:33:41.150 --> 00:33:44.150 line:15% from Facebook asking about the Nick cave images 608 00:33:44.150 --> 00:33:46.400 line:15% that we sort of skipped over a little bit earlier 609 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:47.430 line:15% in the presentation. 610 00:33:47.430 --> 00:33:49.890 line:15% Would you mind touching on those a little bit? 611 00:33:49.890 --> 00:33:54.553 line:15% There was Nick cave in a blue wig and then yeah. 612 00:33:55.650 --> 00:33:59.180 It's nice to see everything, yeah, again. 613 00:33:59.180 --> 00:34:01.770 So this came around the same time smudge, 614 00:34:01.770 --> 00:34:04.160 which were the ones we were just looking at, 615 00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:06.933 and this was done as a special commission. 616 00:34:09.390 --> 00:34:14.367 He did a, collab with the band and it was very sort of a bit 617 00:34:15.240 --> 00:34:19.460 line:15% disco, kind of a bit glam rocky. 618 00:34:19.460 --> 00:34:21.750 line:15% And so I decided to dress him like this, 619 00:34:21.750 --> 00:34:26.750 line:15% and simultaneously he had offered to pose 620 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:29.570 line:15% for the smudge work for me. 621 00:34:29.570 --> 00:34:33.100 line:15% So he gave me two days of his time and I dressed him 622 00:34:33.100 --> 00:34:34.510 line:15% on always weird costumes. 623 00:34:34.510 --> 00:34:36.700 line:15% And if we go to the image, 624 00:34:36.700 --> 00:34:41.643 line:15% either directly after this one, I think with the clown nose, 625 00:34:42.830 --> 00:34:44.730 so after this of before this. 626 00:34:44.730 --> 00:34:46.340 It is there. 627 00:34:46.340 --> 00:34:47.633 This was from smudge. 628 00:34:50.751 --> 00:34:52.450 And I dressed him like this, 629 00:34:54.560 --> 00:34:57.770 and that was from the smudge series, 630 00:34:57.770 --> 00:34:59.190 but there were all these others, 631 00:34:59.190 --> 00:35:01.350 like people should just Google smudge 632 00:35:02.328 --> 00:35:03.890 line:15% and you'll see all these other images, 633 00:35:03.890 --> 00:35:06.220 line:15% which should basically, I use three models. 634 00:35:06.220 --> 00:35:08.280 line:15% Nick is one of the models, 635 00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:11.100 line:15% there was another model that I'd spent more time with. 636 00:35:11.100 --> 00:35:13.200 line:15% And then there was a female model. 637 00:35:13.200 --> 00:35:16.933 line:15% So, friends basically. 638 00:35:19.774 --> 00:35:21.783 line:15% So Nick kindly offered, 639 00:35:24.067 --> 00:35:25.470 line:15% and this was also made into a tapestry, 640 00:35:25.470 --> 00:35:28.560 line:15% which I kept 'cause I love it so much. 641 00:35:28.560 --> 00:35:29.883 line:15% So yeah. 642 00:35:31.230 --> 00:35:34.628 line:15% So I mean, what else do they, 643 00:35:34.628 --> 00:35:38.810 line:15% I suppose that's really all I can say, 644 00:35:38.810 --> 00:35:43.790 line:15% the blue Nick cave week has been bought and it can be seen 645 00:35:43.790 --> 00:35:46.860 sometimes at the NGV. 646 00:35:46.860 --> 00:35:48.563 So they acquired that. 647 00:35:52.220 --> 00:35:54.100 line:15% You mentioned very early on in the talk 648 00:35:54.100 --> 00:35:57.020 line:15% that you started studying at school art history, 649 00:35:57.020 --> 00:36:00.840 line:15% and I can definitely see a few references to other artists. 650 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:02.010 line:15% Would you be able to let us know 651 00:36:02.010 --> 00:36:04.620 line:15% maybe some of your big influences 652 00:36:04.620 --> 00:36:06.960 line:15% who have influenced your career over the time? 653 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.790 Well, Diane Arbus was my first love 654 00:36:13.060 --> 00:36:18.060 and Weegee, Larry Clark, early Cindy Sherman and I love, 655 00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:29.610 but there was sort of the modernist painters 656 00:36:29.610 --> 00:36:33.030 like a Castro, Paul Clay, 657 00:36:33.030 --> 00:36:37.163 there was a lot of painting that I loved. 658 00:36:38.510 --> 00:36:43.510 And now my favourite photography is repertory. 659 00:36:43.890 --> 00:36:47.700 Actually, it's sort of documentary photography now, 660 00:36:47.700 --> 00:36:50.860 which in a way Diane Arbus was portraiture, 661 00:36:50.860 --> 00:36:54.660 but it was also very much from a documentary 662 00:36:54.660 --> 00:36:58.620 kind of point of view, I think she was documenting, 663 00:36:58.620 --> 00:37:01.290 I never felt that I was really using the camera 664 00:37:01.290 --> 00:37:03.710 to document the baby's is a document 665 00:37:04.845 --> 00:37:06.943 but portraits were more, 666 00:37:08.530 --> 00:37:10.810 I don't really know what the portraits were, 667 00:37:10.810 --> 00:37:13.270 even though that was something that kind 668 00:37:13.270 --> 00:37:15.750 of came really easily to me. 669 00:37:15.750 --> 00:37:20.580 line:15% I think that I don't know about now, 670 00:37:20.580 --> 00:37:24.450 line:15% but back in the day I was good with people. 671 00:37:24.450 --> 00:37:26.700 line:15% I was good at making people feel relaxed. 672 00:37:26.700 --> 00:37:31.660 And I think, again, over time for me, 673 00:37:31.660 --> 00:37:34.970 it's not really the outsides, it's more, the insides. 674 00:37:34.970 --> 00:37:39.933 Like the morph work is very much like the of interiors 675 00:37:43.587 --> 00:37:45.120 of people with the guts, 676 00:37:45.120 --> 00:37:48.643 or however you want to describe it, 677 00:37:48.643 --> 00:37:53.643 but it was also, supposed to be not human as well. 678 00:37:53.660 --> 00:37:56.770 So there's a lot of non-human things 679 00:37:56.770 --> 00:38:01.270 that I've arrived at which weed wise, very human. 680 00:38:01.270 --> 00:38:03.543 I don't know if that makes any sense, 681 00:38:07.180 --> 00:38:11.300 I think we all feel at some point, not maybe all of us, 682 00:38:11.300 --> 00:38:14.040 but I definitely felt very dislocated 683 00:38:19.981 --> 00:38:24.148 from my surroundings and I do think there are sort 684 00:38:28.200 --> 00:38:30.180 of other realms to be explored. 685 00:38:30.180 --> 00:38:31.570 I think there are other paradigms. 686 00:38:31.570 --> 00:38:36.290 I think I was very married to sort of a psychological 687 00:38:36.290 --> 00:38:38.937 kind of analysis of the world. 688 00:38:43.820 --> 00:38:48.820 And I think things are a little bit more brutal 689 00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:53.880 and less a little bit more, kind of base in my analysis 690 00:38:57.340 --> 00:38:58.340 I think at the end of the day, 691 00:38:58.340 --> 00:39:01.420 we're kind of animals let's face it. 692 00:39:01.420 --> 00:39:06.420 And some of us behave better than others. 693 00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:10.153 line:15% That's true. 694 00:39:10.990 --> 00:39:15.990 line:15% So I became less interested in what it is to be human 695 00:39:16.100 --> 00:39:20.260 line:15% or not human and more interested in something else. 696 00:39:20.260 --> 00:39:24.190 line:15% And the morph work I do love, 697 00:39:24.190 --> 00:39:29.117 and this is just a little snake kind of spoiler alert, 698 00:39:32.860 --> 00:39:37.860 I'm now starting to work in a sculptural realm. 699 00:39:39.149 --> 00:39:40.020 Oh, sorry. 700 00:39:40.020 --> 00:39:45.020 Yeah, and nudity is probably the penultimate 701 00:39:48.900 --> 00:39:53.900 revealing after a while, I realised 702 00:39:56.240 --> 00:39:58.783 line:15% that with the morph work, 703 00:39:59.636 --> 00:40:04.636 line:15% I use one model and right from the get go, I said to her, 704 00:40:05.060 --> 00:40:07.885 line:15% you're gonna have to take your clothes off. 705 00:40:07.885 --> 00:40:11.080 line:15% So if you want to work for me, you're going to need to, 706 00:40:11.080 --> 00:40:12.880 line:15% even though you can bail, 707 00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:17.010 line:15% sometimes you can sort of see her nakedness, but not often. 708 00:40:17.010 --> 00:40:22.010 line:15% And I think for me, the nudity is the penultimate 709 00:40:22.200 --> 00:40:24.633 line:15% of my photographic work. 710 00:40:26.360 --> 00:40:29.833 And basically these are all iPhone, 711 00:40:30.904 --> 00:40:33.690 and again, I've never done digital until this moment. 712 00:40:33.690 --> 00:40:36.700 line:15% Wow, I was gonna ask you if you shifted away from films. 713 00:40:36.700 --> 00:40:38.776 line:15% So this is it, this series. 714 00:40:38.776 --> 00:40:41.500 line:15% So this is iPhone selfies. 715 00:40:41.500 --> 00:40:43.830 line:15% So, and this is work's gonna be shown 716 00:40:43.830 --> 00:40:45.230 line:15% in Australia next year. 717 00:40:45.230 --> 00:40:50.230 line:15% And it's the most unflattering, horrible photos of myself, 718 00:40:50.870 --> 00:40:55.780 line:15% but I decided it was time to put myself on the line 719 00:40:57.420 --> 00:41:00.140 line:15% because I'd spent years photographing other people 720 00:41:00.140 --> 00:41:01.530 line:15% and years photographing other people naked 721 00:41:03.651 --> 00:41:08.420 line:15% or kind of in pretty vulnerable positions. 722 00:41:08.420 --> 00:41:12.640 line:15% And so I decided to put myself in the frame 723 00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:18.800 and it's almost like the end of something, 724 00:41:20.510 --> 00:41:25.113 but also again, another, another jumping off point for me. 725 00:41:29.970 --> 00:41:31.980 And that work, as I said, will be shown 726 00:41:31.980 --> 00:41:33.430 in Australia next year. 727 00:41:33.430 --> 00:41:38.290 And it was shown this year in Los Angeles, 728 00:41:38.290 --> 00:41:41.010 in my gallery, in Los Angeles. 729 00:41:41.010 --> 00:41:45.510 So yeah, so that's, and there's about, 730 00:41:45.510 --> 00:41:49.130 I think 20 images in that series. 731 00:41:49.130 --> 00:41:51.420 Yeah, maybe a few more. 732 00:41:51.420 --> 00:41:55.260 So that was me deciding to reveal myself, 733 00:41:55.260 --> 00:41:58.720 'cause I've always been a fairly, a contrary 734 00:42:01.810 --> 00:42:04.353 what my photos might convey about myself. 735 00:42:04.353 --> 00:42:09.353 I've been quite self-conscious and shy 736 00:42:10.630 --> 00:42:15.340 and quite sort of prudish in my own life. 737 00:42:15.340 --> 00:42:20.340 So it really was a big thing for me to be able to do 738 00:42:21.490 --> 00:42:23.140 and then not flattering. 739 00:42:23.140 --> 00:42:25.530 And a lot of them were taken in COVID 740 00:42:25.530 --> 00:42:30.430 and where I'd just basically spent time eating, 741 00:42:30.430 --> 00:42:34.100 comforting my wife through COVID. 742 00:42:34.100 --> 00:42:39.010 line:15% And so, yeah, that's sort of. 743 00:42:39.010 --> 00:42:42.860 line:15% Is there any other images that we've missed out 744 00:42:42.860 --> 00:42:45.000 line:15% on or did we cover all of them? 745 00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:47.110 line:15% No, I think we've covered all of them. 746 00:42:47.110 --> 00:42:48.990 line:15% We do have one question though, 747 00:42:48.990 --> 00:42:52.600 line:15% about working in LA the US and how that might differ 748 00:42:52.600 --> 00:42:54.353 line:15% to the UK and Australia. 749 00:43:08.387 --> 00:43:13.387 Well, I'm not a working photographer anymore, 750 00:43:14.420 --> 00:43:18.307 so I don't know what that question pertains two, 751 00:43:21.820 --> 00:43:24.870 I've done a couple of portraits in more recent years, 752 00:43:24.870 --> 00:43:29.870 one in Australia and one for English Vogue 753 00:43:31.410 --> 00:43:34.783 shot here with Nick Cave and Suzy Cave. 754 00:43:35.680 --> 00:43:40.203 And that was for English Vogue and yeah. 755 00:43:44.040 --> 00:43:47.270 So, but in terms of my own work, 756 00:43:47.270 --> 00:43:52.270 I think it took me a long time here to find my feet 757 00:43:53.230 --> 00:43:58.230 because I was very culture shocked coming to America. 758 00:43:58.350 --> 00:44:03.200 I mean, I was culture shock going from Australia to England, 759 00:44:03.200 --> 00:44:05.820 but because when I grew up in Australia, 760 00:44:05.820 --> 00:44:08.800 a lot of it was sort of endless fault. 761 00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:11.850 It kind of was an easier transition, 762 00:44:11.850 --> 00:44:14.813 but America is really something 763 00:44:17.700 --> 00:44:20.620 that I still can't really get my head around, 764 00:44:20.620 --> 00:44:23.350 so I was very culture shocked. 765 00:44:23.350 --> 00:44:28.350 So it really took a long time for me 766 00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:31.653 to be able to relax into myself. 767 00:44:32.660 --> 00:44:34.860 And I think I'm the kind of person 768 00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:39.860 that needs to feel fairly relaxed in order 769 00:44:40.050 --> 00:44:41.143 to be able to work. 770 00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:45.210 So it was a big jump 771 00:44:45.210 --> 00:44:47.440 and I'm still not really used to America. 772 00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:52.440 And I spent a year and a half back in Australia 773 00:44:52.930 --> 00:44:55.220 after 30 years of not being in Australia 774 00:44:56.500 --> 00:44:59.550 cause I just happened I went 775 00:44:59.550 --> 00:45:01.063 back to get an American visas. 776 00:45:02.243 --> 00:45:03.950 Our family went back to get American visas 777 00:45:03.950 --> 00:45:05.993 and we got caught in lockdown. 778 00:45:07.780 --> 00:45:10.790 And then after a while we realised we were probably 779 00:45:10.790 --> 00:45:15.790 very lucky and it was really interesting to reconnect 780 00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:19.890 with Australia and I really loved it 781 00:45:23.751 --> 00:45:28.090 and I felt very comfortable with it even though 782 00:45:28.090 --> 00:45:30.700 on a political level I think there's a lot of issues, 783 00:45:30.700 --> 00:45:34.263 but there's a lot of issues everywhere. 784 00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:38.280 I found it interesting in Australia 785 00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:43.280 that there's not more people aren't more vocal 786 00:45:44.200 --> 00:45:49.200 line:15% about things that are wrong with the system 787 00:45:50.310 --> 00:45:54.173 line:15% and the prejudices and yeah. 788 00:45:55.410 --> 00:45:59.050 line:15% I mean, I find that really disturbing 789 00:46:00.160 --> 00:46:02.630 line:15% and to me a a while again to sort of really understand 790 00:46:02.630 --> 00:46:04.550 line:15% what was going on because I hadn't lived 791 00:46:04.550 --> 00:46:08.280 there for so long and not missed out on 30 years 792 00:46:10.013 --> 00:46:13.740 of growth and change because there has been a lot 793 00:46:13.740 --> 00:46:16.680 of growth in change since I left. 794 00:46:16.680 --> 00:46:17.930 But there's also a lot of things 795 00:46:17.930 --> 00:46:19.650 that have really stayed the same. 796 00:46:19.650 --> 00:46:24.650 So yeah, and the whole climate change thing 797 00:46:27.650 --> 00:46:29.500 and it's just mind boggling, 798 00:46:29.500 --> 00:46:32.780 but anyway, if you want to get me on politics, 799 00:46:32.780 --> 00:46:37.733 line:15% I'm happy to talk about it for two hours. 800 00:46:40.099 --> 00:46:41.190 line:15% I would love to get you started on politics, 801 00:46:41.190 --> 00:46:44.536 line:15% but we literally have just run out of time. 802 00:46:44.536 --> 00:46:45.580 line:15% I'm so sorry, Polly. 803 00:46:45.580 --> 00:46:48.130 line:15% I could actually sit and listen to your stories all day. 804 00:46:48.130 --> 00:46:51.520 line:15% I am such a big fan of your work as I'm sure most 805 00:46:51.520 --> 00:46:53.190 line:15% of the people in our audience are as well. 806 00:46:53.190 --> 00:46:56.160 line:15% If they weren't before there definitely will be now. 807 00:46:56.160 --> 00:46:59.210 line:15% So thank you so much, Polly. 808 00:46:59.210 --> 00:47:01.220 line:15% I hope it was informative and not too much 809 00:47:01.220 --> 00:47:02.530 line:15% all over the place. 810 00:47:02.530 --> 00:47:03.363 line:15% It was brilliant. 811 00:47:03.363 --> 00:47:06.870 line:15% And I cannot wait until I see what's next for Polly Borland. 812 00:47:06.870 --> 00:47:10.170 line:15% And because I just think your concepts and the things 813 00:47:10.170 --> 00:47:12.480 line:15% that you tackle in your work are just so fascinating 814 00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:14.860 line:15% and intriguing and interesting. 815 00:47:14.860 --> 00:47:17.530 line:15% So I'm looking forward to seeing nudie 816 00:47:17.530 --> 00:47:18.880 line:15% in Australia next year, 817 00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:21.080 line:15% but I'm also looking forward to seeing the hint 818 00:47:21.080 --> 00:47:22.210 line:15% of the sculptural work 819 00:47:22.210 --> 00:47:26.400 line:15% because I just think that will be absolutely brilliant. 820 00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:28.020 line:15% So thank you so much, Polly. 821 00:47:28.020 --> 00:47:30.170 And thank you much to everybody else. 822 00:47:30.170 --> 00:47:34.030 I'll throw it back to Robert to say farewell. 823 00:47:34.030 --> 00:47:35.393 Thanks everyone. 824 00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:37.320 Thanks so much, Gill. 825 00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:38.690 Thank you so much, Polly. 826 00:47:38.690 --> 00:47:41.060 That was a fascinating discussion. 827 00:47:41.060 --> 00:47:42.680 And to tell you the truth, 828 00:47:42.680 --> 00:47:44.760 I feel that I've missed out on hearing 829 00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:47.663 the next political discussion, maybe next year. 830 00:47:50.100 --> 00:47:51.740 Thank you everyone for dialling in. 831 00:47:51.740 --> 00:47:56.020 This is our last virtual programme for 2021. 832 00:47:56.020 --> 00:47:58.670 What an amazing and interesting year, 833 00:47:58.670 --> 00:48:01.990 this has been full of travails and triumphs. 834 00:48:01.990 --> 00:48:05.640 We have pumped out a lot of digital content for you. 835 00:48:05.640 --> 00:48:10.010 I would like to extend a personal debt of gratitude 836 00:48:10.010 --> 00:48:12.740 to all of our content providers, 837 00:48:12.740 --> 00:48:15.070 all the people that we've been in conversation 838 00:48:15.070 --> 00:48:17.260 with all of our curators, 839 00:48:17.260 --> 00:48:19.340 our learning facilitators and our other staff 840 00:48:19.340 --> 00:48:21.600 who have created content 841 00:48:21.600 --> 00:48:24.590 for getting the national portrait gallery collection 842 00:48:24.590 --> 00:48:26.690 and programmes out to the people of Australia 843 00:48:26.690 --> 00:48:28.520 and also around the world. 844 00:48:28.520 --> 00:48:32.470 And also extending thanks to all of the people 845 00:48:32.470 --> 00:48:34.290 behind the scenes and the digital team, 846 00:48:34.290 --> 00:48:38.190 the Hectors, Alanas, Matts, Jules 847 00:48:38.190 --> 00:48:40.640 who have wrangled the technology 848 00:48:40.640 --> 00:48:44.740 to make all of this virtual programming possible. 849 00:48:44.740 --> 00:48:47.450 If you would like to catch up on some of our programming 850 00:48:47.450 --> 00:48:51.047 from 2021, go to our website, portrait.gov.au. 851 00:48:52.040 --> 00:48:54.300 And under the watch section, 852 00:48:54.300 --> 00:48:57.180 you can find a lot of our in conversations 853 00:48:57.180 --> 00:49:02.050 and watch them in your own time, over the summer break. 854 00:49:02.050 --> 00:49:04.870 And you can go to our what's on section 855 00:49:04.870 --> 00:49:08.410 to find out what is coming up in 2022. 856 00:49:08.410 --> 00:49:11.300 We start our digital programming on the 20th of January, 857 00:49:11.300 --> 00:49:13.810 but we get right back into the swing of it 858 00:49:13.810 --> 00:49:14.880 at the beginning of February 859 00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:19.360 with our regular Tuesday virtual highlights tours. 860 00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:21.260 All right, that's enough for me. 861 00:49:21.260 --> 00:49:22.630 Season's greetings to you all. 862 00:49:22.630 --> 00:49:25.990 I hope you have great break over the summer period 863 00:49:25.990 --> 00:49:27.810 and we'll catch you next year. 864 00:49:27.810 --> 00:49:29.083 See you later, bye-bye.