WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.670 --> 00:00:07.050 So without further ado, 2 00:00:07.050 --> 00:00:08.040 let's get underway. 3 00:00:08.040 --> 00:00:09.680 These Thursdays, 4 00:00:09.680 --> 00:00:10.990 these Thursday programmes, 5 00:00:10.990 --> 00:00:12.510 we've been featuring 6 00:00:12.510 --> 00:00:13.343 photographers, 7 00:00:13.343 --> 00:00:14.360 professional photographers, 8 00:00:14.360 --> 00:00:15.230 from around Australia, 9 00:00:15.230 --> 00:00:17.210 but who also happen to be good friends 10 00:00:17.210 --> 00:00:18.450 with the National Portrait Gallery 11 00:00:18.450 --> 00:00:21.340 and today's programme is no exception. 12 00:00:21.340 --> 00:00:24.080 Ingvar Kenne, has been a friend of the Portrait Gallery 13 00:00:24.080 --> 00:00:26.580 for very, very long time now, 14 00:00:26.580 --> 00:00:28.810 and we'll hear a little bit about that during the programme, 15 00:00:28.810 --> 00:00:31.770 but we have no less than 23 portraits of his 16 00:00:31.770 --> 00:00:32.603 in our collection, 17 00:00:32.603 --> 00:00:34.790 but also his portraits have featured 18 00:00:34.790 --> 00:00:37.750 in the National Photographic Portrait prize for many years, 19 00:00:37.750 --> 00:00:38.870 including winning 20 00:00:38.870 --> 00:00:40.920 one of the National Photographic Portrait prizes, 21 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:43.870 so, Ingvar, thank you so much for joining us today. 22 00:00:43.870 --> 00:00:46.221 Oh, thank you for having me. 23 00:00:46.221 --> 00:00:47.054 Good night. 24 00:00:47.054 --> 00:00:48.090 Thank you. 25 00:00:48.090 --> 00:00:48.923 line:15% No problems. 26 00:00:48.923 --> 00:00:50.494 line:15% Should we just dive in? 27 00:00:50.494 --> 00:00:52.355 line:15% Should we just-- I think yeah. 28 00:00:52.355 --> 00:00:53.630 line:15% (both laughing) 29 00:00:53.630 --> 00:00:54.463 line:15% Sounds great. 30 00:00:54.463 --> 00:00:56.380 line:15% All right. Well, we've got, 31 00:00:56.380 --> 00:00:59.310 line:15% we were talking earlier at our tech discussion that 32 00:00:59.310 --> 00:01:02.540 line:15% we've actually got one of the first photographs 33 00:01:02.540 --> 00:01:05.750 line:15% that you shot for what has now become 34 00:01:05.750 --> 00:01:06.830 line:15% The Citizen project 35 00:01:06.830 --> 00:01:09.090 line:15% that we'll hear a little bit about during the talk. 36 00:01:09.090 --> 00:01:10.900 line:15% Do you wanna just give us a little bit of background 37 00:01:10.900 --> 00:01:13.884 line:15% into this first portrait that we're looking at now? 38 00:01:13.884 --> 00:01:16.283 line:15% Yeah, that came about 39 00:01:16.283 --> 00:01:17.116 line:15% when I set out 40 00:01:17.116 --> 00:01:19.580 line:15% on a global motorcycle trip in '94 41 00:01:19.580 --> 00:01:22.010 line:15% and then ended up going on for two and a half years, 42 00:01:22.010 --> 00:01:23.610 line:15% and I've travelled with a friend. 43 00:01:25.290 --> 00:01:26.710 line:15% And we started finish together, 44 00:01:26.710 --> 00:01:27.680 line:15% but we kind of separated, 45 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:29.290 line:15% so there's a lot of 46 00:01:29.290 --> 00:01:30.123 line:15% my own time 47 00:01:30.123 --> 00:01:30.960 line:15% and 48 00:01:30.960 --> 00:01:32.550 line:15% I, up to that point, 49 00:01:32.550 --> 00:01:34.410 line:15% I've been taking photographs for quite some time already 50 00:01:34.410 --> 00:01:35.620 line:15% and I studied at university, 51 00:01:35.620 --> 00:01:37.480 line:15% and I felt like it was nothing. 52 00:01:37.480 --> 00:01:39.360 line:15% I sort of felt like, I'd started things 53 00:01:39.360 --> 00:01:40.193 line:15% and never finished them 54 00:01:40.193 --> 00:01:41.860 line:15% and this, 55 00:01:41.860 --> 00:01:44.630 line:15% this trip became quite crucial and important 56 00:01:44.630 --> 00:01:45.463 line:15% and, you know, 57 00:01:45.463 --> 00:01:49.983 line:15% start of something that's now going on for 27 years, is it? 58 00:01:51.620 --> 00:01:52.680 line:15% But 59 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:53.830 line:15% I realised, 60 00:01:53.830 --> 00:01:55.763 line:15% that the context of travelling, 61 00:01:56.700 --> 00:01:59.760 line:15% which ended up being 35-40 countries, 62 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:02.560 line:15% in order to make these images that you take 63 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:04.320 line:15% during that time 64 00:02:04.320 --> 00:02:05.480 line:15% relate to each other, 65 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:08.630 line:15% it became important to have these strict parameters. 66 00:02:08.630 --> 00:02:09.530 line:15% You know, same, 67 00:02:09.530 --> 00:02:11.860 line:15% same format, same lens, same film, 68 00:02:11.860 --> 00:02:13.200 line:15% and 69 00:02:13.200 --> 00:02:17.230 line:15% same approach, and I was lucky to have a friend in, 70 00:02:17.230 --> 00:02:18.580 line:15% back in 71 00:02:18.580 --> 00:02:19.870 line:15% Stockholm then. 72 00:02:19.870 --> 00:02:22.570 line:15% Every, so often, you send 10 rolls back home 73 00:02:22.570 --> 00:02:25.280 line:15% that got developed a set of context sheets for sense 74 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:28.130 line:15% to some poster standard address. 75 00:02:28.130 --> 00:02:29.210 line:15% Three months down the road, 76 00:02:29.210 --> 00:02:30.120 line:15% so you kind of got 77 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:30.980 line:15% an update, 78 00:02:30.980 --> 00:02:32.623 line:15% three months delay back then. 79 00:02:34.428 --> 00:02:35.261 line:15% And very clearly and very early on, 80 00:02:35.261 --> 00:02:37.020 line:15% I realised that the, 81 00:02:37.020 --> 00:02:39.510 line:15% the thing that kind of gelled the trip for me 82 00:02:39.510 --> 00:02:43.000 line:15% and both as a person, but visually was the portraits. 83 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:44.010 line:15% So, 84 00:02:44.010 --> 00:02:44.980 line:15% with kind of 85 00:02:45.850 --> 00:02:47.240 line:15% the help of these contact sheets, 86 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:48.530 line:15% it became 87 00:02:48.530 --> 00:02:51.210 line:15% this narrowed focus on how I would approach 88 00:02:51.210 --> 00:02:52.850 these meetings that was all random 89 00:02:52.850 --> 00:02:54.550 and how to do them, 90 00:02:54.550 --> 00:02:57.870 make them sit together in a cohesive format. 91 00:02:57.870 --> 00:02:59.820 And this was the first, 92 00:02:59.820 --> 00:03:00.790 well, I'd like to call it the first, 93 00:03:00.790 --> 00:03:02.570 I think I've taken one or two putters before, 94 00:03:02.570 --> 00:03:03.950 but this is 95 00:03:03.950 --> 00:03:06.560 line:15% after arriving on an oil tanker from Norway 96 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:07.393 and 97 00:03:07.393 --> 00:03:08.703 line:15% being offloaded onto the, 98 00:03:09.900 --> 00:03:12.070 line:15% in the Harbour there in Halifax, Canada, 99 00:03:12.070 --> 00:03:14.330 line:15% and this guy, Wendell, worked at the dock 100 00:03:14.330 --> 00:03:15.512 line:15% and 101 00:03:15.512 --> 00:03:17.720 line:15% immediately, we were invited to his house 102 00:03:17.720 --> 00:03:18.920 line:15% and ended up staying with him for, 103 00:03:18.920 --> 00:03:21.100 line:15% I don't know, four or five days. 104 00:03:21.100 --> 00:03:24.662 line:15% And he took us out on a boat and I kinda liked it, 105 00:03:24.662 --> 00:03:25.495 line:15% it kind of, 106 00:03:25.495 --> 00:03:27.660 line:15% it's kind of the first portrait I felt like, 107 00:03:27.660 --> 00:03:28.493 this is, 108 00:03:28.493 --> 00:03:29.350 this is where it is at, 109 00:03:29.350 --> 00:03:30.690 and this is 110 00:03:30.690 --> 00:03:32.610 the parameter I will continue with, 111 00:03:32.610 --> 00:03:34.800 and I kind of liked that he photographed me 112 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:35.940 while I photographed him, 113 00:03:35.940 --> 00:03:38.203 line:15% and that kind of kicked it all off in '94. 114 00:03:39.430 --> 00:03:40.263 line:15% That's incredible. 115 00:03:40.263 --> 00:03:41.620 line:15% Should we have a look at a couple of others 116 00:03:41.620 --> 00:03:43.680 from the chasing summer series? 117 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:45.830 Yeah, there's a few there, I think. Yeah. 118 00:03:48.610 --> 00:03:50.253 line:15% This wonderful girl Carina. 119 00:03:51.190 --> 00:03:52.270 line:15% Yeah, she was a delight. 120 00:03:52.270 --> 00:03:53.670 line:15% I didn't meet her for long. 121 00:03:53.670 --> 00:03:54.890 line:15% This was in the, 122 00:03:54.890 --> 00:03:56.623 line:15% on the outskirts of Lima, 123 00:03:57.890 --> 00:04:00.820 line:15% and she helped her mother, you know, 124 00:04:00.820 --> 00:04:02.280 line:15% running this roadside cafe, 125 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:03.890 line:15% where you got some, 126 00:04:03.890 --> 00:04:06.150 line:15% some quick snacks, and a refreshment drink. 127 00:04:06.150 --> 00:04:06.983 line:15% And we, 128 00:04:06.983 --> 00:04:07.920 line:15% we had this, you know, 129 00:04:07.920 --> 00:04:09.220 line:15% Ramona theatre. 130 00:04:09.220 --> 00:04:11.649 line:15% I need to say my Spanish was pretty 131 00:04:11.649 --> 00:04:12.482 line:15% bad. 132 00:04:12.482 --> 00:04:13.315 line:15% It got, 133 00:04:13.315 --> 00:04:15.270 line:15% got pretty good at the end of six months in South America, 134 00:04:15.270 --> 00:04:16.960 line:15% but the conversation, 135 00:04:16.960 --> 00:04:18.260 line:15% I don't know much about Carina, 136 00:04:18.260 --> 00:04:21.658 line:15% but she went a bit of fun with my helmet and playing again. 137 00:04:21.658 --> 00:04:22.860 line:15% Yeah. 138 00:04:22.860 --> 00:04:24.470 line:15% And this format, 139 00:04:24.470 --> 00:04:25.830 line:15% which as we move through, 140 00:04:25.830 --> 00:04:27.493 line:15% I think people will start to, 141 00:04:28.690 --> 00:04:30.950 line:15% to see the uniqueness of that format, 142 00:04:30.950 --> 00:04:32.860 line:15% were you saying that the contact sheets, 143 00:04:32.860 --> 00:04:33.780 line:15% that kind of, 144 00:04:33.780 --> 00:04:34.850 line:15% that were being sent to you, 145 00:04:34.850 --> 00:04:35.830 line:15% that sort of, 146 00:04:35.830 --> 00:04:38.390 line:15% that focused it into this sort of square format 147 00:04:38.390 --> 00:04:39.490 line:15% that has now become, 148 00:04:39.490 --> 00:04:41.630 line:15% sort of signature for you. 149 00:04:41.630 --> 00:04:43.260 line:15% It was in square format camera. 150 00:04:43.260 --> 00:04:45.160 line:15% It was not a house of blood but it was my mere six. 151 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:46.410 line:15% So it's kind of, 152 00:04:46.410 --> 00:04:47.243 line:15% it's sort of the negative 153 00:04:47.243 --> 00:04:48.180 you get is square. 154 00:04:48.180 --> 00:04:49.820 So yeah. 155 00:04:49.820 --> 00:04:50.750 I kind of had 156 00:04:51.690 --> 00:04:53.650 a liking to that format 157 00:04:53.650 --> 00:04:54.483 for a while 158 00:04:54.483 --> 00:04:55.316 before this trip 159 00:04:55.316 --> 00:04:59.390 so I'm comfortable within those equal sides. 160 00:04:59.390 --> 00:05:01.040 Yeah. 161 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:01.873 But yeah, no, 162 00:05:01.873 --> 00:05:03.100 I remember cutting out 163 00:05:03.100 --> 00:05:05.010 and just do a little diary 164 00:05:05.010 --> 00:05:07.540 thing of these contact sheets, 165 00:05:07.540 --> 00:05:08.373 and 166 00:05:09.290 --> 00:05:10.840 normally I don't like to look back 167 00:05:10.840 --> 00:05:12.124 at what I do too much, 168 00:05:12.124 --> 00:05:13.330 I like to kind of, keep it fresh, 169 00:05:13.330 --> 00:05:16.933 but this trip kind of needed this consistency I felt, 170 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:19.640 in order for me to make sense of it 171 00:05:19.640 --> 00:05:22.130 and not try to experiment through this two and a half years. 172 00:05:22.130 --> 00:05:23.700 It felt like I needed to just, 173 00:05:23.700 --> 00:05:25.290 stay in this little tiny space, 174 00:05:25.290 --> 00:05:27.894 that is my space and, 175 00:05:27.894 --> 00:05:29.090 and keep going. 176 00:05:29.090 --> 00:05:30.380 So, 177 00:05:30.380 --> 00:05:31.330 you know, the way that, 178 00:05:31.330 --> 00:05:32.410 I mean, this is portraiture, 179 00:05:32.410 --> 00:05:33.810 they look back at camera, 180 00:05:33.810 --> 00:05:35.143 is pretty straightforward, 181 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:39.180 line:15% but the context around it was always, as important, 182 00:05:39.180 --> 00:05:43.040 line:15% if not more important sometimes to find that first 183 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:43.873 line:15% and then 184 00:05:43.873 --> 00:05:45.050 line:15% place 185 00:05:45.050 --> 00:05:47.800 line:15% the person in that context. 186 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:51.021 line:15% That's kind of how I've worked since then I think, 187 00:05:51.021 --> 00:05:51.854 line:15% and this, 188 00:05:51.854 --> 00:05:54.230 line:15% this project is called Chasing Summer, 189 00:05:54.230 --> 00:05:55.760 line:15% but I feel, to me now, 190 00:05:55.760 --> 00:05:56.890 line:15% it's part of Citizen, 191 00:05:56.890 --> 00:05:58.960 line:15% 'cause it's, you know, 192 00:05:58.960 --> 00:06:01.939 Citizen kind of later became another book, 193 00:06:01.939 --> 00:06:02.772 but it's the same, 194 00:06:02.772 --> 00:06:05.183 you know, same approach, same everything. 195 00:06:06.580 --> 00:06:07.740 line:15% Yeah. We have to give a shout out 196 00:06:07.740 --> 00:06:09.860 line:15% to this awesome portrait of a cow, 197 00:06:09.860 --> 00:06:12.013 line:15% as well as a human being. 198 00:06:12.013 --> 00:06:13.360 line:15% (Ingvar laughing) It's fantastic. 199 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:14.193 line:15% Yeah. 200 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:17.340 line:15% And another one from the Chasing Summer. 201 00:06:18.500 --> 00:06:20.050 line:15% Yeah. Sort of 202 00:06:20.050 --> 00:06:21.030 line:15% the homecoming. 203 00:06:21.030 --> 00:06:23.370 line:15% I was kind of spending nine months in Australia, 204 00:06:23.370 --> 00:06:24.463 line:15% on this trip and, 205 00:06:25.873 --> 00:06:27.960 line:15% I ended up meeting my wife. 206 00:06:27.960 --> 00:06:29.370 line:15% We married very quickly 207 00:06:29.370 --> 00:06:31.490 line:15% and I left very quickly after, 208 00:06:31.490 --> 00:06:32.323 line:15% and 209 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:35.110 line:15% not for any other reason but 210 00:06:35.110 --> 00:06:37.350 line:15% I needed to finish this trip, 211 00:06:37.350 --> 00:06:40.230 line:15% and so I spent nine months travelling back through 212 00:06:40.230 --> 00:06:41.960 line:15% the sub-continent and Iran, 213 00:06:41.960 --> 00:06:43.380 line:15% and this is, 214 00:06:43.380 --> 00:06:44.213 line:15% again, 215 00:06:44.213 --> 00:06:46.620 line:15% a random encounter on the top of the paths. 216 00:06:46.620 --> 00:06:48.410 line:15% I think Gachsar, 217 00:06:48.410 --> 00:06:49.243 line:15% in Iran, 218 00:06:49.243 --> 00:06:50.730 line:15% heading towards the Black Sea, 219 00:06:52.150 --> 00:06:53.680 line:15% and she is a traveller with her, 220 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:54.770 line:15% with her husband. 221 00:06:54.770 --> 00:06:56.680 line:15% They were going on a holiday trip to the, 222 00:06:56.680 --> 00:06:57.513 line:15% to the, 223 00:06:57.513 --> 00:06:58.620 line:15% to the, 224 00:06:58.620 --> 00:06:59.930 line:15% to the inland sea themselves, 225 00:06:59.930 --> 00:07:01.140 line:15% so, 226 00:07:01.140 --> 00:07:02.300 line:15% a random portrait. 227 00:07:02.300 --> 00:07:04.330 line:15% Don't know much more than her name. 228 00:07:04.330 --> 00:07:05.163 line:15% I liked it though. 229 00:07:05.163 --> 00:07:08.660 line:15% I was gonna hug his nappies in the boot and 230 00:07:08.660 --> 00:07:10.952 line:15% all very strangely normal at the time. 231 00:07:10.952 --> 00:07:11.860 line:15% (Ingvar laughing) 232 00:07:11.860 --> 00:07:13.000 line:15% Yeah. 233 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:13.860 line:15% Brilliant. 234 00:07:13.860 --> 00:07:15.730 line:15% Should we have a little jump now 235 00:07:15.730 --> 00:07:17.170 line:15% to some of the works, 236 00:07:17.170 --> 00:07:18.480 line:15% the portraits that you have, 237 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:19.970 line:15% you haven't made a selection of those 238 00:07:19.970 --> 00:07:21.930 line:15% that we have in the portrait gallery collection, 239 00:07:21.930 --> 00:07:23.610 line:15% and then we'll come back to have another chat 240 00:07:23.610 --> 00:07:26.710 line:15% about this mammoth Citizen project. 241 00:07:26.710 --> 00:07:28.802 line:15% The first one we wanted to have a little look at is 242 00:07:28.802 --> 00:07:29.973 line:15% Annaliese Seubert. 243 00:07:31.950 --> 00:07:32.783 line:15% Yeah, that. 244 00:07:32.783 --> 00:07:34.000 line:15% That, yeah. 245 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:35.950 line:15% So when I landed in Australia in '90, 246 00:07:35.950 --> 00:07:38.250 line:15% back in Australia in '96, 247 00:07:38.250 --> 00:07:39.143 line:15% after this trip, 248 00:07:40.311 --> 00:07:41.660 line:15% there was no in, 249 00:07:41.660 --> 00:07:42.980 line:15% so I ended up waiting tables 250 00:07:42.980 --> 00:07:44.350 line:15% for three or four years in Melbourne 251 00:07:44.350 --> 00:07:45.183 line:15% and 252 00:07:46.050 --> 00:07:47.190 line:15% slowly, slowly, 253 00:07:47.190 --> 00:07:49.290 line:15% getting in touch with magazines trying 254 00:07:49.290 --> 00:07:50.450 line:15% and it took a long, long time, 255 00:07:50.450 --> 00:07:51.300 line:15% but I did get a break 256 00:07:51.300 --> 00:07:52.940 line:15% with Australian style at the time 257 00:07:52.940 --> 00:07:54.020 line:15% to take a portrait, 258 00:07:54.020 --> 00:07:55.847 line:15% and the next gig was, 259 00:07:55.847 --> 00:07:57.860 line:15% "Oh, hang on, we like how you take portraits." 260 00:07:57.860 --> 00:08:01.200 line:15% because all I had to show was the box of Kodak prints 261 00:08:01.200 --> 00:08:02.200 line:15% from Chasing Summer. 262 00:08:02.200 --> 00:08:03.033 line:15% That was my, 263 00:08:03.033 --> 00:08:04.030 line:15% the extent of my 264 00:08:05.050 --> 00:08:05.883 line:15% pitch 265 00:08:05.883 --> 00:08:07.470 line:15% document. 266 00:08:07.470 --> 00:08:08.303 line:15% So, 267 00:08:09.310 --> 00:08:12.550 line:15% this editor Mark Mordue took a punt, I think, 268 00:08:12.550 --> 00:08:13.383 line:15% and just said, 269 00:08:13.383 --> 00:08:15.370 "Let's just have you 270 00:08:15.370 --> 00:08:18.610 do a fashion story with this model analyst, Seubert" 271 00:08:18.610 --> 00:08:19.443 So I've got, 272 00:08:20.290 --> 00:08:22.890 I had no idea what I was doing beyond taking portraiture, 273 00:08:22.890 --> 00:08:25.470 but it was a portrait fashion story over 10 pages 274 00:08:25.470 --> 00:08:26.510 and 275 00:08:26.510 --> 00:08:27.343 yeah. 276 00:08:27.343 --> 00:08:29.579 That hangs in the National Portrait Gallery, 277 00:08:29.579 --> 00:08:30.412 and I think this image's here, 278 00:08:30.412 --> 00:08:32.460 so, yeah. Yes. Oh, yeah. 279 00:08:32.460 --> 00:08:33.293 Yeah. So... 280 00:08:33.293 --> 00:08:35.600 So, that's kind of how it started for me here, I think. 281 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:37.390 And this was one of the first early portraits 282 00:08:37.390 --> 00:08:39.070 that you took when you came back to Australia, 283 00:08:39.070 --> 00:08:40.170 is that right? 284 00:08:40.170 --> 00:08:41.003 Yeah. 285 00:08:41.003 --> 00:08:41.836 I think it was two years 286 00:08:41.836 --> 00:08:43.420 when I did nothing more than waiting tables, 287 00:08:43.420 --> 00:08:44.660 and then, 288 00:08:44.660 --> 00:08:47.550 I think I had a different aspiration then of wanting to do, 289 00:08:47.550 --> 00:08:48.540 cause I had... 290 00:08:49.720 --> 00:08:50.553 In Sweden, 291 00:08:50.553 --> 00:08:52.180 I've had a couple of work grants, 292 00:08:52.180 --> 00:08:54.230 co-arts grants and exhibitions, 293 00:08:54.230 --> 00:08:55.980 and I kind of wanna stay in that world, 294 00:08:55.980 --> 00:08:57.640 but reality set in that 295 00:08:57.640 --> 00:08:59.430 no one really wants to know about, 296 00:08:59.430 --> 00:09:00.820 that here, what I've done. 297 00:09:00.820 --> 00:09:01.653 It was like, 298 00:09:01.653 --> 00:09:03.983 I could not get anywhere with that kind of, 299 00:09:03.983 --> 00:09:04.947 kind of starting, 300 00:09:04.947 --> 00:09:06.590 "Okay. I better take photographs again 301 00:09:06.590 --> 00:09:08.530 and approach magazines with these box of prints." 302 00:09:08.530 --> 00:09:10.889 And that's kind of how it so started. 303 00:09:10.889 --> 00:09:11.722 Mm hmm. 304 00:09:13.010 --> 00:09:15.160 line:15% And another famous face 305 00:09:15.160 --> 00:09:18.538 line:15% in the National Portrait Gallery collection. 306 00:09:18.538 --> 00:09:19.393 line:15% Yeah. He's, 307 00:09:20.412 --> 00:09:21.920 line:15% probably, one of my favourite subject over. 308 00:09:21.920 --> 00:09:23.423 line:15% We hang out for four hours, 309 00:09:24.830 --> 00:09:26.810 line:15% at his manager's office in North Sydney 310 00:09:26.810 --> 00:09:29.230 line:15% and they didn't have a water view in Mossman, 311 00:09:29.230 --> 00:09:30.960 line:15% so they painted it, 312 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:33.580 line:15% and that became one of the portraits that day, 313 00:09:33.580 --> 00:09:35.705 line:15% but yeah, a lovely, lovely experience. 314 00:09:35.705 --> 00:09:36.538 line:15% And, 315 00:09:37.650 --> 00:09:39.160 line:15% for the, 316 00:09:39.160 --> 00:09:41.200 line:15% for the first 10 years, 317 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:43.120 line:15% a lot of my portraiture were assignment, 318 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:43.953 line:15% or, you know, 319 00:09:43.953 --> 00:09:44.786 line:15% the bulk of it. 320 00:09:44.786 --> 00:09:46.419 line:15% You know, I took portraits of 321 00:09:46.419 --> 00:09:47.252 line:15% random, encounters, 322 00:09:47.252 --> 00:09:48.110 line:15% like Chasing Summer style, 323 00:09:48.110 --> 00:09:50.460 line:15% but a lot of the work came out of assignments, 324 00:09:50.460 --> 00:09:51.380 line:15% shooting 325 00:09:51.380 --> 00:09:53.090 line:15% musicians or models or, 326 00:09:53.090 --> 00:09:54.580 line:15% you know, priests, 327 00:09:54.580 --> 00:09:55.998 line:15% I don't know, 328 00:09:55.998 --> 00:09:56.831 line:15% prime ministers, 329 00:09:56.831 --> 00:09:58.089 line:15% all sorts. Yeah. 330 00:09:58.089 --> 00:09:59.237 line:15% And then kind of, 331 00:09:59.237 --> 00:10:00.740 line:15% and it was never meant to be pro... 332 00:10:00.740 --> 00:10:02.430 line:15% Like Citizen was never meant to be, 333 00:10:02.430 --> 00:10:03.263 line:15% I feel like, 334 00:10:04.780 --> 00:10:06.990 line:15% the advent of digital, 335 00:10:06.990 --> 00:10:08.000 line:15% I don't know when that was, 336 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:09.710 line:15% kind of like mid 2000, 337 00:10:09.710 --> 00:10:10.543 line:15% when it was not, 338 00:10:10.543 --> 00:10:12.830 line:15% when I couldn't fight for the reason 339 00:10:12.830 --> 00:10:13.840 line:15% of shooting with this camera anymore. 340 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:16.200 When they all wanted digital files, 341 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:18.613 and I kind of, 342 00:10:18.613 --> 00:10:20.290 I kind of gave up on editorial then. 343 00:10:20.290 --> 00:10:21.123 'Cause it felt like, 344 00:10:21.123 --> 00:10:23.169 I can't take the photographs I wanna take 345 00:10:23.169 --> 00:10:24.270 and I don't wanna put my name on this. 346 00:10:24.270 --> 00:10:26.520 And so that's when I started looking back 347 00:10:26.520 --> 00:10:27.593 on the work that, 348 00:10:29.530 --> 00:10:31.160 then became Citizen. 349 00:10:31.160 --> 00:10:33.760 So it was 15 years of work there 350 00:10:33.760 --> 00:10:35.963 that became the book and so forth later. 351 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:38.490 line:15% Well, that's a good way to segue 352 00:10:38.490 --> 00:10:40.380 line:15% into that Citizen project, 353 00:10:40.380 --> 00:10:41.450 line:15% but we couldn't, 354 00:10:41.450 --> 00:10:43.617 line:15% couldn't go without showing at least one-- 355 00:10:44.940 --> 00:10:45.830 line:15% Oh, yeah. cameo of yourself 356 00:10:45.830 --> 00:10:47.614 with Angus. Yeah. Yeah. 357 00:10:47.614 --> 00:10:51.143 (both laughing) Yeah. It was a good day. 358 00:10:51.143 --> 00:10:52.408 Yeah. 359 00:10:52.408 --> 00:10:54.200 I just want you to know that I love Frisbee. 360 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:56.161 So... (both laughing) 361 00:10:56.161 --> 00:10:58.120 That's awesome. 362 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:00.110 line:15% Should we have, would you like, have brought along 363 00:11:00.110 --> 00:11:01.100 line:15% the Citizen book, 364 00:11:01.100 --> 00:11:03.220 line:15% that was published and was also, 365 00:11:03.220 --> 00:11:05.380 line:15% had its book launch at the National Portrait Gallery 366 00:11:05.380 --> 00:11:06.410 line:15% along with an exhibition. 367 00:11:06.410 --> 00:11:09.130 line:15% Do you wanna tell us a little bit about that? 368 00:11:09.130 --> 00:11:09.963 line:15% Yeah. 369 00:11:09.963 --> 00:11:11.460 line:15% So 370 00:11:11.460 --> 00:11:13.295 line:15% yeah. So I said, you know, 371 00:11:13.295 --> 00:11:14.128 like I started looking back, 372 00:11:14.128 --> 00:11:15.810 sort of 2010 373 00:11:15.810 --> 00:11:16.643 roughly, 374 00:11:16.643 --> 00:11:17.476 I don't know, 375 00:11:17.476 --> 00:11:19.070 and just kind of, well this is sort of, 376 00:11:19.070 --> 00:11:20.650 this is something here again, 377 00:11:20.650 --> 00:11:24.260 like this kind of continuous way of approaching people, 378 00:11:24.260 --> 00:11:25.530 regardless if it's a commission 379 00:11:25.530 --> 00:11:26.510 or if it's me, 380 00:11:26.510 --> 00:11:28.163 sort of meeting someone randomly, 381 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:30.780 and obviously, I was kind of aware of it, 382 00:11:30.780 --> 00:11:31.640 but not 383 00:11:31.640 --> 00:11:32.473 in the context 384 00:11:32.473 --> 00:11:33.980 that I wanted to put it out there in the world, 385 00:11:33.980 --> 00:11:35.390 but 386 00:11:35.390 --> 00:11:36.970 it felt like a natural end. 387 00:11:36.970 --> 00:11:39.232 When I stopped working with magazines, 388 00:11:39.232 --> 00:11:40.260 Mm hmm. 389 00:11:40.260 --> 00:11:43.270 and yeah, I started going through the work 390 00:11:43.270 --> 00:11:45.890 and several rounds and in 2012, 391 00:11:45.890 --> 00:11:48.080 you kind of had a show at the National Gallery 392 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:49.630 and we launched the book there. 393 00:11:49.630 --> 00:11:51.099 I have it here, 394 00:11:51.099 --> 00:11:52.610 do you wanna? Yes, please. 395 00:11:52.610 --> 00:11:53.660 It's this one here. 396 00:11:55.260 --> 00:11:57.200 And then you, 397 00:11:57.200 --> 00:11:58.450 you know I decided from now on, 398 00:11:58.450 --> 00:12:00.030 I'm just gonna show 399 00:12:00.030 --> 00:12:02.150 work for Citizen that is 400 00:12:02.150 --> 00:12:04.160 produced after 2012. 401 00:12:04.160 --> 00:12:06.200 So none of that in the book is, 402 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:07.580 is part of this conversation, 403 00:12:07.580 --> 00:12:09.730 but it's an ongoing project. 404 00:12:09.730 --> 00:12:11.490 And we'll get Matt to drop the link 405 00:12:11.490 --> 00:12:13.080 into the Citizen book too, 406 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:14.410 so that if anyone's interested, 407 00:12:14.410 --> 00:12:16.210 they can go and have a look at that. 408 00:12:17.210 --> 00:12:18.450 On your website... 409 00:12:18.450 --> 00:12:19.820 But shall we dive into 410 00:12:19.820 --> 00:12:22.300 some of the more recent Citizen 411 00:12:22.300 --> 00:12:23.133 works 412 00:12:23.133 --> 00:12:24.050 that people won't have seen 413 00:12:24.050 --> 00:12:25.546 published 414 00:12:25.546 --> 00:12:27.910 this early? Yeah. 415 00:12:27.910 --> 00:12:30.993 This is the first portrait after, 416 00:12:31.920 --> 00:12:33.870 well, it's actually at the printer in China, 417 00:12:33.870 --> 00:12:35.830 line:15% so you can see a sheet 418 00:12:35.830 --> 00:12:36.830 line:15% of the book, 419 00:12:36.830 --> 00:12:38.090 line:15% being printed in China. 420 00:12:38.090 --> 00:12:39.310 line:15% So I guess that's, 421 00:12:39.310 --> 00:12:40.203 line:15% Yuan Yuan Zhou, 422 00:12:41.300 --> 00:12:44.130 line:15% the first portrait after the book was published 423 00:12:44.130 --> 00:12:44.980 line:15% and yeah, 424 00:12:44.980 --> 00:12:46.970 line:15% it started the next chapter. 425 00:12:46.970 --> 00:12:47.900 line:15% It's not really a chapter, 426 00:12:47.900 --> 00:12:50.500 line:15% but it just started the continuation of the project. 427 00:12:53.534 --> 00:12:55.023 line:15% And we had more? This follow here. 428 00:12:55.023 --> 00:12:56.870 line:15% We have a whole series of images 429 00:12:56.870 --> 00:12:58.380 that we can work our way through now, 430 00:12:58.380 --> 00:13:01.310 but we're not going to do them in chronological order 431 00:13:01.310 --> 00:13:03.270 or necessarily even in 432 00:13:03.270 --> 00:13:05.240 the various different countries that they were taken. 433 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:08.480 line:15% So, and this is something that you do 434 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:09.840 line:15% in your Citizen book, isn't it? 435 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:12.120 line:15% It's not necessarily in a particular order 436 00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:14.810 line:15% or categorised in any particular ways, 437 00:13:14.810 --> 00:13:15.643 line:15% that deliberate? 438 00:13:16.497 --> 00:13:17.520 line:15% Yeah, 439 00:13:17.520 --> 00:13:18.353 totally. 440 00:13:18.353 --> 00:13:19.270 Yes, it is. 441 00:13:19.270 --> 00:13:21.023 I mean, it's kind of a visual, 442 00:13:22.130 --> 00:13:23.650 visual sequencing, you know, 443 00:13:23.650 --> 00:13:26.050 with the sign at the time, 444 00:13:26.050 --> 00:13:27.890 Marcus Piper was like, I don't know. 445 00:13:27.890 --> 00:13:28.960 We did that for three years. 446 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:30.340 Just laying it out, redoing it, 447 00:13:30.340 --> 00:13:31.640 and it's just 448 00:13:31.640 --> 00:13:33.220 the flow of the images, I guess, 449 00:13:33.220 --> 00:13:34.210 was what dictated 450 00:13:34.210 --> 00:13:36.983 how it fell on the page rather than anything else. 451 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:40.073 But 452 00:13:40.073 --> 00:13:41.080 I guess to me, it's like, 453 00:13:43.310 --> 00:13:45.170 I think I just follow my own precept. 454 00:13:45.170 --> 00:13:47.310 You know, like it's this manual in my head 455 00:13:47.310 --> 00:13:49.180 that is just impossible to ignore. 456 00:13:49.180 --> 00:13:50.620 It's like a tick. 457 00:13:50.620 --> 00:13:52.849 And that the purpose is, 458 00:13:52.849 --> 00:13:53.840 it's almost the purpose, 459 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:57.240 is the obsessive doing and continuing this body of work 460 00:13:59.640 --> 00:14:00.610 and, you know, 461 00:14:00.610 --> 00:14:03.650 the photographs of these incidental moments and spaces 462 00:14:03.650 --> 00:14:06.083 that we've sort of just happened to converge on. 463 00:14:07.871 --> 00:14:08.704 And, and from that, 464 00:14:08.704 --> 00:14:09.830 is this 465 00:14:09.830 --> 00:14:10.663 elevated, 466 00:14:10.663 --> 00:14:12.900 you know, it becomes this elevated human connection 467 00:14:12.900 --> 00:14:13.750 between us. 468 00:14:13.750 --> 00:14:15.670 line:15% You know the camera is such an enabler in that way 469 00:14:15.670 --> 00:14:16.503 line:15% that you can, 470 00:14:17.860 --> 00:14:19.140 line:15% you know, I would never approach these. 471 00:14:19.140 --> 00:14:20.910 line:15% I would never have had a conversation with these people 472 00:14:20.910 --> 00:14:21.743 line:15% or even, 473 00:14:21.743 --> 00:14:22.940 line:15% like we'd never crossed paths, 474 00:14:22.940 --> 00:14:24.380 line:15% but the camera is kind of the reason 475 00:14:24.380 --> 00:14:26.550 line:15% we are crossing paths in the sense, 476 00:14:26.550 --> 00:14:27.383 line:15% and 477 00:14:27.383 --> 00:14:28.640 line:15% it becomes this, 478 00:14:28.640 --> 00:14:30.060 line:15% is it taxonomical, 479 00:14:30.060 --> 00:14:30.893 line:15% in some ways? 480 00:14:30.893 --> 00:14:31.726 line:15% The whole, 481 00:14:31.726 --> 00:14:34.230 line:15% it's just almost like speech species 482 00:14:34.230 --> 00:14:35.200 line:15% or specimens, 483 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:36.737 line:15% you know specimens? Mm hmm. 484 00:14:36.737 --> 00:14:37.570 line:15% Sorry that, 485 00:14:37.570 --> 00:14:39.930 line:15% that are being documented I think, 486 00:14:39.930 --> 00:14:41.380 line:15% and 487 00:14:41.380 --> 00:14:42.540 I find it, 488 00:14:42.540 --> 00:14:44.960 almost a democratic equaliser. 489 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:48.060 There's like no borders, no issues, no sides to take, 490 00:14:48.060 --> 00:14:49.350 and, 491 00:14:49.350 --> 00:14:51.623 you know, seeing eye to eye with people. 492 00:14:52.640 --> 00:14:53.473 And for me, 493 00:14:53.473 --> 00:14:54.930 it's being a Citizen of the world, 494 00:14:54.930 --> 00:14:57.470 just being out there and connect with people, 495 00:14:57.470 --> 00:14:58.303 strangers. 496 00:14:59.630 --> 00:15:02.860 line:15% As we move through these images people will see, 497 00:15:02.860 --> 00:15:04.680 line:15% you know, complete strangers, 498 00:15:04.680 --> 00:15:05.770 line:15% different nationalities, 499 00:15:05.770 --> 00:15:06.960 line:15% different faces, 500 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:09.010 line:15% but they'll also see famous faces as well. 501 00:15:09.010 --> 00:15:10.770 line:15% Is your approach for 502 00:15:10.770 --> 00:15:12.310 line:15% everybody pretty much the same, 503 00:15:12.310 --> 00:15:14.420 line:15% or do you tailor your approach depending on, 504 00:15:14.420 --> 00:15:17.040 line:15% you know, the particular shoot that you might be at 505 00:15:17.040 --> 00:15:18.790 line:15% or how you actually see the people? 506 00:15:20.450 --> 00:15:21.443 line:15% I don't pilot it now, 507 00:15:21.443 --> 00:15:23.953 line:15% like they get the same treatment, you know? 508 00:15:24.880 --> 00:15:26.460 line:15% Technically, it's very simple, 509 00:15:26.460 --> 00:15:27.803 line:15% I won't give it away, 510 00:15:27.803 --> 00:15:28.790 line:15% (both laughing) but photographer, 511 00:15:28.790 --> 00:15:30.840 line:15% you probably know there is nothing to it. 512 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:35.190 I think with an assignment, 513 00:15:35.190 --> 00:15:37.655 the addition is that you get thrown into, 514 00:15:37.655 --> 00:15:39.980 you've gotta meet a such and such musician or, 515 00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:41.810 in this hotel room or, 516 00:15:41.810 --> 00:15:42.830 it could be anything. 517 00:15:42.830 --> 00:15:44.820 I mean, that's been a while since that's happened. 518 00:15:44.820 --> 00:15:46.170 So if it's a famous person, 519 00:15:46.170 --> 00:15:47.003 but 520 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:50.610 is this, the approach is the same, 521 00:15:50.610 --> 00:15:52.900 like I need to find a space 522 00:15:52.900 --> 00:15:54.031 to, 523 00:15:54.031 --> 00:15:55.400 so I was there earlier 524 00:15:55.400 --> 00:15:56.880 and it's always about the space 525 00:15:56.880 --> 00:15:57.840 that I need to fill, 526 00:15:57.840 --> 00:15:58.970 and so by the time comes 527 00:15:58.970 --> 00:15:59.803 that this person, 528 00:15:59.803 --> 00:16:00.667 this famous person turns up, 529 00:16:00.667 --> 00:16:03.330 I kind of already know what I wanna do, 530 00:16:03.330 --> 00:16:04.840 and where I wanna place them. 531 00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:06.580 line:15% But they're not long shoots. 532 00:16:06.580 --> 00:16:08.010 line:15% Once I, 533 00:16:08.010 --> 00:16:09.020 line:15% once I 534 00:16:09.020 --> 00:16:09.853 line:15% have, 535 00:16:09.853 --> 00:16:11.350 line:15% once I've found my thing, 536 00:16:11.350 --> 00:16:12.343 line:15% I don't really care beyond that, 537 00:16:12.343 --> 00:16:14.730 line:15% and the shoot is very quick. Mm hmm. 538 00:16:14.730 --> 00:16:17.510 line:15% I shoot the same photograph over and over, 539 00:16:17.510 --> 00:16:19.800 line:15% over a couple of rolls and then, 540 00:16:19.800 --> 00:16:21.277 line:15% they can go and I can go, 541 00:16:21.277 --> 00:16:23.053 line:15% and I'll pick one out of that. 542 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:25.353 line:15% It's really that simple. 543 00:16:26.350 --> 00:16:27.508 line:15% Yeah. 544 00:16:27.508 --> 00:16:30.060 line:15% And do you mainly work with natural light 545 00:16:30.060 --> 00:16:31.930 line:15% or do you take much other equipment with you 546 00:16:31.930 --> 00:16:33.480 line:15% when you're sort of roaming around 547 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:34.860 line:15% or is it basically just the camera 548 00:16:34.860 --> 00:16:36.260 line:15% and work with what you have? 549 00:16:37.430 --> 00:16:38.733 line:15% The light is important. 550 00:16:40.330 --> 00:16:42.217 line:15% It's available light and then I will fill flash 551 00:16:42.217 --> 00:16:44.110 line:15% and you can see this in this portrait. 552 00:16:44.110 --> 00:16:46.290 line:15% It's stronger because I am shooting into the sound, 553 00:16:46.290 --> 00:16:48.200 line:15% so you can see the front flash, 554 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:51.160 line:15% but it's just a simple flash on top of the camera. 555 00:16:51.160 --> 00:16:53.210 line:15% So the click one is 556 00:16:53.210 --> 00:16:54.053 line:15% small, 557 00:16:55.430 --> 00:16:57.300 line:15% and I just try to balance that lift there, 558 00:16:57.300 --> 00:16:59.000 line:15% lift the subject off the page a little bit, 559 00:16:59.000 --> 00:16:59.833 line:15% and then, 560 00:16:59.833 --> 00:17:01.010 line:15% all the way back in '94, 561 00:17:01.010 --> 00:17:01.843 line:15% I start, 562 00:17:01.843 --> 00:17:03.120 line:15% that's what I travel with. A little, 563 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:04.120 line:15% little pop flash and 564 00:17:06.270 --> 00:17:07.103 line:15% yeah, 565 00:17:08.427 --> 00:17:09.423 line:15% it's that simple. 566 00:17:10.997 --> 00:17:13.000 line:15% We got-- Yeah. Bob Hawke was... 567 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:13.833 line:15% I met him, 568 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:17.570 line:15% he's the face of a beer company. 569 00:17:17.570 --> 00:17:19.320 line:15% So that was quite recent, 570 00:17:19.320 --> 00:17:21.053 line:15% obviously before he passed away. 571 00:17:22.930 --> 00:17:23.820 line:15% But yeah. 572 00:17:23.820 --> 00:17:24.653 line:15% That, 573 00:17:24.653 --> 00:17:27.060 line:15% that was five snap, five shots, 574 00:17:27.060 --> 00:17:29.117 line:15% and then he had had enough. 575 00:17:29.117 --> 00:17:29.950 line:15% So, that's it. 576 00:17:30.990 --> 00:17:31.823 line:15% Yeah. 577 00:17:32.870 --> 00:17:34.270 line:15% And here are a couple of subjects 578 00:17:34.270 --> 00:17:35.823 line:15% that are very familiar to you. 579 00:17:37.098 --> 00:17:39.080 line:15% Yeah. It's my dad, Boossa 580 00:17:39.080 --> 00:17:39.913 line:15% Bo. 581 00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:42.533 line:15% Quite a, 582 00:17:42.533 --> 00:17:44.090 line:15% quite a 583 00:17:44.090 --> 00:17:45.690 line:15% big time in his and mom's lives. 584 00:17:45.690 --> 00:17:47.870 line:15% This is the family childhood home, 585 00:17:47.870 --> 00:17:49.518 line:15% where I was, 586 00:17:49.518 --> 00:17:51.120 line:15% where I lived since I was eight 587 00:17:51.120 --> 00:17:52.780 line:15% till I left home. 588 00:17:52.780 --> 00:17:53.613 line:15% So they moved, 589 00:17:53.613 --> 00:17:55.374 line:15% they were moving out in 2018, 590 00:17:55.374 --> 00:17:56.207 line:15% so I went back to 591 00:17:56.207 --> 00:17:57.570 line:15% just help move some boxes around 592 00:17:57.570 --> 00:17:59.210 line:15% and 593 00:17:59.210 --> 00:18:00.970 line:15% it was very stressful for them, I think 594 00:18:00.970 --> 00:18:02.290 line:15% because they've been there for a long time 595 00:18:02.290 --> 00:18:03.123 line:15% and 596 00:18:03.123 --> 00:18:04.060 line:15% downsizing 597 00:18:04.060 --> 00:18:04.893 line:15% and 598 00:18:04.893 --> 00:18:06.020 line:15% yeah. 599 00:18:06.020 --> 00:18:08.673 line:15% I can see it on my dad's face and my mom too. 600 00:18:10.800 --> 00:18:12.710 line:15% Yeah. But you know, special place. 601 00:18:12.710 --> 00:18:14.803 line:15% That's the backyard, I roamed around in. 602 00:18:18.317 --> 00:18:20.680 line:15% Is there, last week when we spoke to Nikki Toole, 603 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:22.850 line:15% she was talking about this 604 00:18:22.850 --> 00:18:23.850 line:15% concept that she had, 605 00:18:23.850 --> 00:18:25.470 line:15% where she asked people to actually think 606 00:18:25.470 --> 00:18:26.680 line:15% about a particular thing 607 00:18:27.750 --> 00:18:29.060 line:15% when she took the photos. 608 00:18:29.060 --> 00:18:30.180 line:15% So there was a certain expression 609 00:18:30.180 --> 00:18:32.180 line:15% that she was aiming for from that. 610 00:18:32.180 --> 00:18:33.440 line:15% When you approach your subjects 611 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:34.720 line:15% or when you photograph your subjects, 612 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:36.610 line:15% do you ask them to... 613 00:18:36.610 --> 00:18:38.620 line:15% Do you have a particular conversation, 614 00:18:38.620 --> 00:18:39.453 line:15% style, 615 00:18:39.453 --> 00:18:41.580 line:15% or ask them to actually think about particular things 616 00:18:41.580 --> 00:18:44.200 line:15% or is it basically just trying to capture them 617 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:46.093 line:15% as they are, in their environment? 618 00:18:47.810 --> 00:18:49.146 Yeah. I don't ask them. 619 00:18:49.146 --> 00:18:49.979 And when I ask them, 620 00:18:49.979 --> 00:18:50.812 I wanna know who they are, 621 00:18:50.812 --> 00:18:51.645 and 622 00:18:51.645 --> 00:18:52.700 if we have a shared language 623 00:18:52.700 --> 00:18:54.850 which I didn't have at this moment in life. 624 00:18:56.360 --> 00:18:57.211 I do it, 625 00:18:57.211 --> 00:19:00.133 line:15% it's a conversation, but in this case 626 00:19:00.133 --> 00:19:01.810 line:15% there was no conversation. 627 00:19:01.810 --> 00:19:02.643 line:15% Lifting the camera 628 00:19:02.643 --> 00:19:04.200 line:15% and she realised I wanted to take the photograph 629 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:05.723 line:15% and she paused. Mm hmm. 630 00:19:07.510 --> 00:19:08.900 line:15% But 631 00:19:08.900 --> 00:19:11.090 line:15% yeah, like, I don't know. 632 00:19:11.090 --> 00:19:11.923 line:15% I like people. 633 00:19:11.923 --> 00:19:13.420 line:15% I'm really interested in people, 634 00:19:13.420 --> 00:19:14.760 line:15% but I don't think if I, 635 00:19:14.760 --> 00:19:17.720 line:15% I don't think I can portray something particular 636 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:18.670 line:15% about people really. 637 00:19:18.670 --> 00:19:20.840 line:15% I think it's mostly in the eye of the beholder 638 00:19:20.840 --> 00:19:23.100 line:15% of the person who ends up looking at the photographs 639 00:19:23.100 --> 00:19:24.690 line:15% and, myself included. 640 00:19:24.690 --> 00:19:25.760 line:15% Because in a lot of the cases, 641 00:19:25.760 --> 00:19:27.570 line:15% I can't claim to know anything about 642 00:19:27.570 --> 00:19:29.070 line:15% most people I've photographed. 643 00:19:30.930 --> 00:19:32.410 line:15% I do have a great human interest, 644 00:19:32.410 --> 00:19:34.110 line:15% but for me, the photograph is the, 645 00:19:35.350 --> 00:19:37.278 line:15% it's all about the photograph. 646 00:19:37.278 --> 00:19:39.140 line:15% And it does not mean that I'm, 647 00:19:39.140 --> 00:19:41.130 line:15% I'm rushing in to take something from them. 648 00:19:41.130 --> 00:19:42.630 line:15% I think, you know, 649 00:19:42.630 --> 00:19:43.840 line:15% we're gentle with each other 650 00:19:43.840 --> 00:19:45.790 line:15% and I often send pictures, if I can. 651 00:19:45.790 --> 00:19:46.880 line:15% If I get an email address, 652 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:48.660 line:15% it's always an exchange after the fact, 653 00:19:48.660 --> 00:19:49.493 line:15% but 654 00:19:50.580 --> 00:19:51.413 line:15% for me, 655 00:19:51.413 --> 00:19:53.873 line:15% for me the photograph is the absolute. 656 00:19:55.030 --> 00:19:55.863 line:15% And, 657 00:19:57.280 --> 00:19:58.193 line:15% and I don't, 658 00:19:59.380 --> 00:20:00.730 line:15% yeah, I don't know how to say it really. 659 00:20:00.730 --> 00:20:01.563 line:15% Let's move on 660 00:20:01.563 --> 00:20:03.348 line:15% to the next picture now. Sure. 661 00:20:03.348 --> 00:20:04.181 line:15% (both laughing) Well, 662 00:20:04.181 --> 00:20:05.120 line:15% this is a familiar environment 663 00:20:05.120 --> 00:20:07.030 line:15% to a lot of Australians 664 00:20:07.030 --> 00:20:09.263 line:15% after 2020's events. 665 00:20:10.550 --> 00:20:11.423 line:15% Yes. 666 00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:13.920 line:15% Quite a horrendous couple of days. 667 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:15.133 line:15% I was camping down, 668 00:20:16.130 --> 00:20:16.963 line:15% not far from there, 669 00:20:16.963 --> 00:20:18.070 line:15% in the Mercer Rock National Park, 670 00:20:18.070 --> 00:20:19.960 line:15% and I heard a wrap at the tent. 671 00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:20.850 line:15% We heard a wrap at the tent, 672 00:20:20.850 --> 00:20:22.430 line:15% two in the morning, "Get out." 673 00:20:22.430 --> 00:20:23.263 line:15% You know, the fire, 674 00:20:23.263 --> 00:20:24.650 line:15% I think it was the fire 675 00:20:26.330 --> 00:20:27.290 line:15% and 676 00:20:27.290 --> 00:20:28.123 line:15% yeah, 677 00:20:28.123 --> 00:20:29.350 line:15% packed up everything and rushed 678 00:20:29.350 --> 00:20:30.333 line:15% and was sort of, 679 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:34.460 line:15% was pushed towards Eden sports ground, I think. 680 00:20:34.460 --> 00:20:37.410 line:15% And it was 4,000 other people there, 681 00:20:37.410 --> 00:20:38.480 line:15% coming from all over. 682 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:39.313 line:15% And 683 00:20:40.340 --> 00:20:42.630 line:15% this is David, and his 684 00:20:42.630 --> 00:20:44.240 line:15% wife, Margaret was next to him, 685 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:46.620 line:15% and yeah, we just ended up being neighbours on this, 686 00:20:46.620 --> 00:20:49.643 line:15% this day New Years Eve, 2019. 687 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:52.713 line:15% And fellow 688 00:20:54.150 --> 00:20:55.338 line:15% evacuees? 689 00:20:55.338 --> 00:20:57.130 line:15% Yeah. That's earlier that morning 690 00:20:57.130 --> 00:20:58.688 line:15% and 691 00:20:58.688 --> 00:21:01.690 line:15% trading stories, like Emily and Dan was on a holiday 692 00:21:01.690 --> 00:21:03.243 line:15% on the coast, as well. 693 00:21:04.211 --> 00:21:07.080 line:15% It wasn't a great holiday for anyone but, 694 00:21:07.080 --> 00:21:09.770 line:15% he also that morning had got a call from his dad 695 00:21:09.770 --> 00:21:12.180 line:15% that the farm had burnt down. 696 00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:13.320 line:15% Everything was gone. 697 00:21:13.320 --> 00:21:14.453 line:15% Livestock and, 698 00:21:15.423 --> 00:21:17.210 line:15% and he's priced car collection 699 00:21:17.210 --> 00:21:19.258 line:15% that he'd been tinkering with. 700 00:21:19.258 --> 00:21:20.460 line:15% I can't remember where it was. 701 00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:22.300 line:15% It was across the mountain towards, 702 00:21:22.300 --> 00:21:23.673 line:15% you know, west of there. 703 00:21:24.530 --> 00:21:25.363 line:15% So, 704 00:21:25.363 --> 00:21:26.196 line:15% this is 10.00 in the morning 705 00:21:26.196 --> 00:21:28.320 line:15% when he was telling me this story. 706 00:21:28.320 --> 00:21:30.750 line:15% That he'd lost everything really. 707 00:21:30.750 --> 00:21:31.982 line:15% Yeah. 708 00:21:31.982 --> 00:21:34.680 line:15% And then he was on holiday and nowhere to go. 709 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:35.513 line:15% So, 710 00:21:36.500 --> 00:21:37.410 line:15% it was, 711 00:21:37.410 --> 00:21:39.600 line:15% it was tough times. 712 00:21:39.600 --> 00:21:42.220 line:15% And there's no way of mistaking that sky. 713 00:21:42.220 --> 00:21:44.550 line:15% So familiar to so many of us. 714 00:21:44.550 --> 00:21:45.383 line:15% Yeah. 715 00:21:46.470 --> 00:21:47.860 line:15% So, 716 00:21:47.860 --> 00:21:49.170 line:15% we'll head to, 717 00:21:49.170 --> 00:21:50.833 line:15% jump around a little bit more. 718 00:21:51.850 --> 00:21:52.683 line:15% Some others. 719 00:21:53.840 --> 00:21:55.573 line:15% This is Gosta. 720 00:21:55.573 --> 00:21:56.680 line:15% He's a publisher. 721 00:21:56.680 --> 00:21:58.410 line:15% A journal publisher in Sweden. 722 00:21:58.410 --> 00:22:01.400 line:15% And he is the one who ended up publishing The Ball, 723 00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:02.480 line:15% which we'll get to later. 724 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:03.313 line:15% Which is the, 725 00:22:03.313 --> 00:22:05.420 line:15% the last book I published in 726 00:22:05.420 --> 00:22:06.663 line:15% 2018. Yeah. 727 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:09.363 line:15% So that's a printer in Denmark. 728 00:22:11.620 --> 00:22:12.540 line:15% A friend, Isabella, 729 00:22:12.540 --> 00:22:14.090 line:15% she's a photographer in Sydney. 730 00:22:18.150 --> 00:22:19.370 line:15% I think for me, 731 00:22:19.370 --> 00:22:20.440 line:15% and this is what struck me 732 00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:21.830 line:15% when I was looking through your images 733 00:22:21.830 --> 00:22:23.450 line:15% is your eye for detail. 734 00:22:23.450 --> 00:22:24.283 line:15% As you say, 735 00:22:24.283 --> 00:22:25.116 line:15% you sort of picked, 736 00:22:25.116 --> 00:22:26.200 line:15% almost picked the environment 737 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:29.230 line:15% before the person happens to wander into the shot. 738 00:22:29.230 --> 00:22:32.040 line:15% There's just so much detail in these images, 739 00:22:32.040 --> 00:22:32.873 line:15% and some of them, 740 00:22:32.873 --> 00:22:34.790 line:15% some of the detail is really, 741 00:22:34.790 --> 00:22:36.850 line:15% quite bizarre, or odd, 742 00:22:36.850 --> 00:22:38.620 line:15% or intriguing. 743 00:22:38.620 --> 00:22:39.453 line:15% I mean, for me, 744 00:22:39.453 --> 00:22:40.510 line:15% the first thing I saw 745 00:22:40.510 --> 00:22:41.970 line:15% was the tiger in the cage. 746 00:22:41.970 --> 00:22:43.150 line:15% And then there's a sign, 747 00:22:43.150 --> 00:22:44.200 line:15% and there's air conditioning, 748 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:45.220 line:15% and the fan, 749 00:22:45.220 --> 00:22:48.330 line:15% it's only the things that kind of combined to, 750 00:22:48.330 --> 00:22:49.163 line:15% almost, 751 00:22:49.163 --> 00:22:50.490 line:15% it's almost like a film set 752 00:22:50.490 --> 00:22:52.033 line:15% in some strange way. 753 00:22:53.590 --> 00:22:54.900 line:15% Yeah. And then it's kind of, 754 00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:55.820 line:15% nothing is, 755 00:22:55.820 --> 00:22:56.800 line:15% is 756 00:22:56.800 --> 00:22:58.580 line:15% added or the, 757 00:22:58.580 --> 00:23:00.300 line:15% it is what... 758 00:23:00.300 --> 00:23:01.133 line:15% But I guess, 759 00:23:01.133 --> 00:23:02.080 line:15% I'm in that space, 760 00:23:02.080 --> 00:23:03.423 line:15% and I see those, 761 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:06.260 line:15% these things coming at you. 762 00:23:06.260 --> 00:23:07.160 line:15% This fan and, 763 00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:09.410 line:15% and then it's literally, in this case, 764 00:23:09.410 --> 00:23:12.403 line:15% it was like, who's around. Yeah. 765 00:23:12.403 --> 00:23:13.730 line:15% Jiya was standing next to me 766 00:23:13.730 --> 00:23:15.270 line:15% with her husband and kids 767 00:23:15.270 --> 00:23:16.103 line:15% and I just did, 768 00:23:16.103 --> 00:23:17.560 line:15% do you mind if I just take your portrait? 769 00:23:17.560 --> 00:23:19.100 line:15% And she just shifted a step, 770 00:23:19.100 --> 00:23:19.933 line:15% and, 771 00:23:21.980 --> 00:23:25.080 line:15% was happy to have her portrait taken. 772 00:23:25.080 --> 00:23:26.190 line:15% And they come like that. 773 00:23:26.190 --> 00:23:27.023 line:15% I feel like 774 00:23:28.050 --> 00:23:30.740 line:15% there's been times when I try to force a portrait 775 00:23:30.740 --> 00:23:31.770 line:15% or like, oh, you know, that, 776 00:23:31.770 --> 00:23:33.300 line:15% that person looks so interesting, 777 00:23:33.300 --> 00:23:35.190 line:15% I should really make sure I get a portrait of them, 778 00:23:35.190 --> 00:23:36.023 line:15% and they almost, 779 00:23:36.023 --> 00:23:37.374 line:15% you start, 780 00:23:37.374 --> 00:23:38.317 line:15% call them up, 781 00:23:38.317 --> 00:23:39.540 line:15% "Do you wanna do a portrait?" 782 00:23:39.540 --> 00:23:40.450 line:15% And I'm thinking this, 783 00:23:40.450 --> 00:23:42.360 line:15% and they never work. Yeah. 784 00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:43.840 line:15% For me they always fall short 785 00:23:43.840 --> 00:23:45.410 because there's so much 786 00:23:45.410 --> 00:23:47.120 thought prior, 787 00:23:47.120 --> 00:23:48.610 and 788 00:23:48.610 --> 00:23:49.833 they just become this, 789 00:23:52.690 --> 00:23:55.140 just Hebrew hybrid things I'm not interested in. 790 00:23:55.140 --> 00:23:55.973 So, 791 00:23:55.973 --> 00:23:56.920 I've come to realise that 792 00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:58.710 drop all preparation. 793 00:23:58.710 --> 00:24:00.140 Just don't think about anything. 794 00:24:00.140 --> 00:24:01.470 And if it doesn't happen for a month, 795 00:24:01.470 --> 00:24:03.618 you don't take a portrait for a month. 796 00:24:03.618 --> 00:24:06.520 line:15% But if you have the camera with you constantly, 797 00:24:06.520 --> 00:24:07.410 line:15% the moment, 798 00:24:07.410 --> 00:24:08.770 line:15% the moments will come, 799 00:24:08.770 --> 00:24:11.750 line:15% and they are the portraits that I end up... 800 00:24:12.860 --> 00:24:14.910 line:15% The conversation with those portraits are 801 00:24:16.150 --> 00:24:16.983 line:15% ongoing for me, 802 00:24:16.983 --> 00:24:18.025 line:15% and they're, 803 00:24:18.025 --> 00:24:18.858 line:15% they interested me, 804 00:24:18.858 --> 00:24:20.660 line:15% they became stayers in my 805 00:24:20.660 --> 00:24:21.760 line:15% project. 806 00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:23.183 line:15% The longer, the bigger picture. 807 00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:26.620 line:15% Yeah, this is, 808 00:24:26.620 --> 00:24:28.043 line:15% yeah, this is emotional. 809 00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:32.270 line:15% This is Billy Boxhead. 810 00:24:32.270 --> 00:24:33.421 line:15% He was my dog, 811 00:24:33.421 --> 00:24:34.850 line:15% our family dog. 812 00:24:34.850 --> 00:24:36.600 line:15% But through circumstance, 813 00:24:36.600 --> 00:24:37.990 line:15% I had to re-home him 814 00:24:37.990 --> 00:24:39.480 line:15% and 815 00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:40.583 line:15% I knew Margaret, 816 00:24:41.728 --> 00:24:42.561 line:15% vaguely, 817 00:24:42.561 --> 00:24:43.394 line:15% but she also, 818 00:24:43.394 --> 00:24:45.363 line:15% she also is the owner of his brother. 819 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:47.810 line:15% And I called her up, 820 00:24:47.810 --> 00:24:49.800 line:15% sort of, asking for tips, 821 00:24:49.800 --> 00:24:51.280 line:15% I needed to find a new home, 822 00:24:51.280 --> 00:24:52.817 line:15% and then the next day she calls me up and said, 823 00:24:52.817 --> 00:24:53.807 line:15% "I'll take him." 824 00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:55.993 line:15% So, 825 00:24:55.993 --> 00:24:58.360 line:15% the slight problem was she was living in Kalgoorlie 826 00:24:58.360 --> 00:24:59.270 line:15% during COVID, 827 00:24:59.270 --> 00:25:00.390 line:15% and 828 00:25:00.390 --> 00:25:01.380 line:15% we tried, 829 00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:02.900 line:15% attempted last Christmas to, 830 00:25:02.900 --> 00:25:04.600 line:15% to kind of meet up and it fell through, 831 00:25:04.600 --> 00:25:06.110 line:15% and then in February I went across 832 00:25:06.110 --> 00:25:08.340 line:15% and she like, her and her partner came across 833 00:25:08.340 --> 00:25:10.770 line:15% from Kalgoorlie and we met in Nullarbor Roadhouse, 834 00:25:10.770 --> 00:25:12.370 line:15% and that was the last, 835 00:25:12.370 --> 00:25:14.540 line:15% last day with Billy, my dog. 836 00:25:14.540 --> 00:25:15.800 line:15% And 837 00:25:15.800 --> 00:25:16.910 line:15% yeah, 838 00:25:16.910 --> 00:25:18.110 line:15% that's how that portrait came about. 839 00:25:18.110 --> 00:25:22.970 line:15% So, the 6,000 kilometre trip to find a home for Billy. 840 00:25:22.970 --> 00:25:24.820 line:15% Billy has a good home. 841 00:25:24.820 --> 00:25:25.940 line:15% He has. 842 00:25:25.940 --> 00:25:27.270 line:15% Probably a better home, 843 00:25:27.270 --> 00:25:28.143 line:15% let's be honest. 844 00:25:29.870 --> 00:25:31.030 line:15% And then on the way back, 845 00:25:31.030 --> 00:25:32.630 line:15% I decided to 846 00:25:32.630 --> 00:25:34.370 line:15% travel the longer way back, 847 00:25:34.370 --> 00:25:36.780 line:15% through the guts of Gawler Ranges into South Australia 848 00:25:36.780 --> 00:25:38.050 line:15% and Coober Pedy, 849 00:25:38.050 --> 00:25:39.580 line:15% and this is a portrait of 850 00:25:40.630 --> 00:25:42.510 line:15% a lovely couple in Kingoonya, 851 00:25:42.510 --> 00:25:44.610 line:15% a town of 10-15 houses, 852 00:25:44.610 --> 00:25:46.210 line:15% and they run their caravan park. 853 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:48.553 line:15% I mean, some of them, 854 00:25:48.553 --> 00:25:50.260 line:15% there are some other, I don't know, 855 00:25:50.260 --> 00:25:51.093 line:15% I don't wanna, 856 00:25:51.093 --> 00:25:51.970 line:15% there's some great stories, 857 00:25:51.970 --> 00:25:52.803 line:15% but I think 858 00:25:53.638 --> 00:25:55.900 line:15% I'll keep them probably more to myself 859 00:25:55.900 --> 00:25:58.020 line:15% because I don't know for me, 860 00:25:58.020 --> 00:25:59.160 line:15% it is about hope for you, 861 00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:00.820 line:15% for everyone else it should be about the photograph. 862 00:26:00.820 --> 00:26:01.653 line:15% I don't think, 863 00:26:01.653 --> 00:26:05.030 line:15% I want them to be less personalised, 864 00:26:05.030 --> 00:26:06.560 line:15% I don't want people to know too much, 865 00:26:06.560 --> 00:26:08.663 line:15% because they should have the same value. 866 00:26:10.780 --> 00:26:12.000 line:15% Yeah. And for me, 867 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:13.950 line:15% that is what's so 868 00:26:13.950 --> 00:26:15.210 line:15% absolutely 869 00:26:15.210 --> 00:26:17.390 line:15% breathtaking and intriguing about them. 870 00:26:17.390 --> 00:26:22.180 line:15% I get drawn into the thong line marks on his feet and things 871 00:26:22.180 --> 00:26:24.150 line:15% and that how did that car happen to be there? 872 00:26:24.150 --> 00:26:27.833 line:15% But it's the details and the, 873 00:26:27.833 --> 00:26:30.620 line:15% the picture setting that is just 874 00:26:30.620 --> 00:26:33.421 line:15% so intriguing and draws you in so much. 875 00:26:33.421 --> 00:26:34.254 line:15% So, 876 00:26:35.097 --> 00:26:38.120 line:15% this beautiful couple with the slightly wonky sunglasses, 877 00:26:38.120 --> 00:26:38.953 line:15% I just, 878 00:26:38.953 --> 00:26:41.060 line:15% I absolutely love it. 879 00:26:41.060 --> 00:26:42.020 line:15% Yeah. 880 00:26:42.020 --> 00:26:43.566 line:15% It's, 881 00:26:43.566 --> 00:26:44.399 line:15% (Ingvar laughing) it's a story behind 882 00:26:44.399 --> 00:26:45.232 line:15% that one too, 883 00:26:45.232 --> 00:26:46.065 line:15% but 884 00:26:47.040 --> 00:26:49.310 line:15% yeah. Me, the kids and my ex, 885 00:26:49.310 --> 00:26:51.534 line:15% were travelling around Cambodia, Vietnam, 886 00:26:51.534 --> 00:26:54.750 line:15% and I kind of rented a motorbike or, 887 00:26:54.750 --> 00:26:55.583 line:15% Vesper thing, 888 00:26:55.583 --> 00:26:57.980 line:15% and every morning I was out for two, three hours, 889 00:26:57.980 --> 00:26:59.150 line:15% just trying to meet people 890 00:26:59.150 --> 00:27:02.570 line:15% and take portraits while they slept in, 891 00:27:02.570 --> 00:27:03.490 line:15% and 892 00:27:03.490 --> 00:27:04.323 line:15% yeah, 893 00:27:04.323 --> 00:27:06.060 line:15% these are two guys I came across in this 894 00:27:06.060 --> 00:27:07.493 line:15% very random place. 895 00:27:10.690 --> 00:27:11.890 line:15% Yeah. There were lovely. 896 00:27:12.870 --> 00:27:17.110 line:15% We do have a question from one of our zoom participants. 897 00:27:17.110 --> 00:27:19.930 line:15% Wondering if it's hard to get people not to pose 898 00:27:19.930 --> 00:27:22.270 line:15% in an unnatural or a self-conscious way, 899 00:27:22.270 --> 00:27:23.103 line:15% for example, 900 00:27:23.103 --> 00:27:25.153 line:15% like a selfie pout or a cheesy grin. 901 00:27:27.790 --> 00:27:30.052 No. (both laughing) 902 00:27:30.052 --> 00:27:30.885 Not. 903 00:27:30.885 --> 00:27:31.932 I don't know. 904 00:27:31.932 --> 00:27:33.763 As I said I lock up for me, if you, 905 00:27:35.650 --> 00:27:37.220 even if I look at other people's work, 906 00:27:37.220 --> 00:27:38.680 if it's too, 907 00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:40.693 if the subject matter is emoting, 908 00:27:42.270 --> 00:27:43.823 is emoting too much, 909 00:27:45.610 --> 00:27:47.100 I feel like that, 910 00:27:47.100 --> 00:27:48.320 that shuts the image down. 911 00:27:48.320 --> 00:27:49.910 You see nothing but that smile, 912 00:27:49.910 --> 00:27:51.310 you see nothing but that frown, 913 00:27:51.310 --> 00:27:52.973 or whatever pose they take. 914 00:27:53.900 --> 00:27:54.770 So, for me, 915 00:27:54.770 --> 00:27:55.780 these are 916 00:27:55.780 --> 00:27:58.000 slightly glorified passport photos, 917 00:27:58.000 --> 00:27:59.610 and that's all I ask for them. 918 00:27:59.610 --> 00:28:00.800 line:15% You know, I don't, it's, 919 00:28:00.800 --> 00:28:02.470 line:15% it's very, 920 00:28:02.470 --> 00:28:04.740 line:15% I want them just to look back 921 00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:07.800 line:15% and not emote if possible, 922 00:28:07.800 --> 00:28:09.800 line:15% something will come back towards the camera. 923 00:28:09.800 --> 00:28:10.950 line:15% But what that is, 924 00:28:10.950 --> 00:28:11.840 line:15% I don't know what that is, 925 00:28:11.840 --> 00:28:12.673 line:15% but I want... 926 00:28:12.673 --> 00:28:14.820 line:15% Again, it's about repetition and it's, 927 00:28:14.820 --> 00:28:19.060 line:15% it's about being able to line these quarters up somehow, 928 00:28:19.060 --> 00:28:22.190 line:15% after the fact down the road next to each other, 929 00:28:22.190 --> 00:28:24.380 line:15% where they have this neutral 930 00:28:25.600 --> 00:28:27.810 line:15% meet with the camera. 931 00:28:27.810 --> 00:28:28.643 line:15% Sometimes not, 932 00:28:28.643 --> 00:28:30.470 line:15% sometimes you grab these, 933 00:28:30.470 --> 00:28:31.623 line:15% these other moments, 934 00:28:32.820 --> 00:28:33.740 line:15% scratching your eye. 935 00:28:33.740 --> 00:28:35.493 line:15% That's a good mate in Sweden. 936 00:28:37.290 --> 00:28:38.290 line:15% We studied together 937 00:28:39.810 --> 00:28:40.643 line:15% university. 938 00:28:41.750 --> 00:28:42.763 line:15% Boat captain. 939 00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:48.990 line:15% why I was in this dog park, 940 00:28:48.990 --> 00:28:50.320 line:15% it's another long story. 941 00:28:50.320 --> 00:28:53.203 line:15% This is kind of daycare centre for dogs in Bangkok. 942 00:28:58.420 --> 00:28:59.370 line:15% And then some, 943 00:28:59.370 --> 00:29:01.633 line:15% a series of a few from Japan. 944 00:29:02.750 --> 00:29:05.510 line:15% Yeah. I was lucky to do a couple of jobs there, 945 00:29:05.510 --> 00:29:07.593 line:15% end of 2019 and 2020. 946 00:29:07.593 --> 00:29:09.820 line:15% I've never been. Always wanted to go to Japan, 947 00:29:09.820 --> 00:29:11.570 line:15% and ended up staying back 948 00:29:13.172 --> 00:29:14.240 line:15% a couple of weeks at the time 949 00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:17.130 line:15% and just travel around a little bit myself. 950 00:29:17.130 --> 00:29:18.590 line:15% He is just a gardener at the hotel 951 00:29:18.590 --> 00:29:20.313 line:15% I ended up staying in Hiroshima. 952 00:29:21.690 --> 00:29:23.000 line:15% We had a bit of a conversation 953 00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:25.570 line:15% and she's the lady who managed the guest house 954 00:29:25.570 --> 00:29:26.650 line:15% where I was staying. 955 00:29:26.650 --> 00:29:27.773 line:15% Trying to ski. 956 00:29:29.810 --> 00:29:31.740 line:15% But again, like, it was, 957 00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:32.650 line:15% it was, 958 00:29:32.650 --> 00:29:35.730 line:15% I was there for two days with the previous lady, 959 00:29:35.730 --> 00:29:36.563 line:15% staying and skiing, 960 00:29:36.563 --> 00:29:39.139 line:15% and then one afternoon, it was just, yeah, 961 00:29:39.139 --> 00:29:39.972 line:15% the snow is so heavy and the, 962 00:29:39.972 --> 00:29:41.849 line:15% oh, that cone is there, 963 00:29:41.849 --> 00:29:43.337 line:15% well, just rap on the door, 964 00:29:43.337 --> 00:29:44.650 line:15% "Can you come out for five minutes?" 965 00:29:44.650 --> 00:29:45.830 line:15% And she thought she wanted, 966 00:29:45.830 --> 00:29:47.750 line:15% she thought I wanted her to take my portraits 967 00:29:47.750 --> 00:29:48.860 line:15% so she was perplexed. 968 00:29:48.860 --> 00:29:50.440 line:15% But anyway, 969 00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:51.833 line:15% that's how that came about. 970 00:29:53.100 --> 00:29:54.670 line:15% And Rose, 971 00:29:54.670 --> 00:29:57.330 line:15% who's joining us on zoom was wondering if there is a sense 972 00:29:57.330 --> 00:29:59.753 in which your images are also self-portrait. 973 00:30:04.010 --> 00:30:05.830 I don't know. (Ingvar laughing) 974 00:30:05.830 --> 00:30:07.058 I don't know. 975 00:30:07.058 --> 00:30:09.143 What I think about portraiture. 976 00:30:11.730 --> 00:30:12.680 I think 977 00:30:14.276 --> 00:30:15.109 like, I, 978 00:30:15.109 --> 00:30:16.620 I'm not interested in the audience 979 00:30:17.550 --> 00:30:18.903 at all, in my work. 980 00:30:20.670 --> 00:30:22.650 During the process of doing work it's, 981 00:30:22.650 --> 00:30:24.210 I think it's the most selfish 982 00:30:24.210 --> 00:30:26.963 and kind of beautifully selfish thing to be able to do. 983 00:30:28.390 --> 00:30:29.970 And, 984 00:30:29.970 --> 00:30:31.690 being in this world of images that are, 985 00:30:31.690 --> 00:30:33.320 that I'm interested in, 986 00:30:33.320 --> 00:30:34.310 and that's 987 00:30:34.310 --> 00:30:37.030 why am I doing these choices that I do, 988 00:30:37.030 --> 00:30:39.570 and why do I have this 989 00:30:39.570 --> 00:30:41.470 urge to keep taking this portraits. 990 00:30:41.470 --> 00:30:42.670 It's a very personal thing. 991 00:30:42.670 --> 00:30:44.250 And then yes, at the end of the day, 992 00:30:44.250 --> 00:30:45.350 when you 993 00:30:45.350 --> 00:30:46.650 decide to say stock 994 00:30:46.650 --> 00:30:49.460 and put them together and you make a book 995 00:30:49.460 --> 00:30:50.780 or 996 00:30:50.780 --> 00:30:52.320 exhibition, 997 00:30:52.320 --> 00:30:55.000 obviously then the audience is gonna be involved. 998 00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:55.833 But for me, 999 00:30:55.833 --> 00:30:57.530 like if I need to, 1000 00:30:57.530 --> 00:31:00.300 I need to reach my own conclusion with the work 1001 00:31:00.300 --> 00:31:02.970 and be satisfied. 1002 00:31:02.970 --> 00:31:06.740 It's almost like I have to make my work iconic for myself. 1003 00:31:06.740 --> 00:31:08.000 But they need to, 1004 00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:09.360 they live with me for long time. 1005 00:31:09.360 --> 00:31:11.380 You know, this project goes on for a long time, 1006 00:31:11.380 --> 00:31:13.613 and if they keep, 1007 00:31:14.810 --> 00:31:15.760 staying with me, 1008 00:31:15.760 --> 00:31:17.680 you take a portrait 10 years earlier 1009 00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:18.690 and you look at it, oh, 1010 00:31:18.690 --> 00:31:20.503 line:15% and you still kind of get these. 1011 00:31:21.820 --> 00:31:23.150 line:15% I get something from that. 1012 00:31:23.150 --> 00:31:24.160 line:15% Well, it's a stayer, 1013 00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:25.900 line:15% and I don't know why it stays with me. 1014 00:31:25.900 --> 00:31:28.110 line:15% But then, once you done putting it together, 1015 00:31:28.110 --> 00:31:29.110 line:15% put it out in the world. 1016 00:31:29.110 --> 00:31:29.943 line:15% It's kind of, 1017 00:31:29.943 --> 00:31:30.940 line:15% yes, it's out there, 1018 00:31:30.940 --> 00:31:34.310 line:15% but I don't think about the audience until that point. 1019 00:31:34.310 --> 00:31:35.660 line:15% And even beyond that point, 1020 00:31:38.090 --> 00:31:38.923 line:15% I don't, 1021 00:31:38.923 --> 00:31:40.170 line:15% I don't know what I'm trying to, 1022 00:31:40.170 --> 00:31:43.210 line:15% is there something I'm trying to say. 1023 00:31:43.210 --> 00:31:44.043 line:15% I don't, 1024 00:31:44.043 --> 00:31:45.760 line:15% it's no. I'm just trying to do what I do, 1025 00:31:45.760 --> 00:31:47.870 line:15% and if people react to it 1026 00:31:47.870 --> 00:31:48.703 line:15% is probably 1027 00:31:49.830 --> 00:31:51.783 line:15% less of myself put on more of their. 1028 00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:54.570 line:15% I mean, it's their relationship to the work, 1029 00:31:54.570 --> 00:31:56.360 that is their thing. 1030 00:31:56.360 --> 00:31:58.410 My relationship to the work is completely different 1031 00:31:58.410 --> 00:32:00.410 and both are okay, 1032 00:32:00.410 --> 00:32:01.320 I think. 1033 00:32:01.320 --> 00:32:02.520 Yeah. 1034 00:32:02.520 --> 00:32:04.720 line:15% You did say when we were asking you 1035 00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:07.510 line:15% to bring along a series of images for this particular chat, 1036 00:32:07.510 --> 00:32:09.160 line:15% that it was a bit hard to choose which ones, 1037 00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:11.500 line:15% cause they were all like your children so. 1038 00:32:11.500 --> 00:32:12.920 line:15% Yeah. 1039 00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:15.323 line:15% All have significance centre power. 1040 00:32:16.470 --> 00:32:17.303 line:15% Yeah. 1041 00:32:17.303 --> 00:32:18.760 line:15% This is another image that appeared 1042 00:32:18.760 --> 00:32:21.040 line:15% in one of our Photographic Portrait prizes, 1043 00:32:21.040 --> 00:32:22.590 line:15% good old Brad. 1044 00:32:22.590 --> 00:32:24.300 line:15% Yeah. Brad Gallagher. 1045 00:32:24.300 --> 00:32:26.310 line:15% Bagsy Gallagher. 1046 00:32:26.310 --> 00:32:28.010 line:15% Yeah. So I was, 1047 00:32:28.010 --> 00:32:28.843 line:15% we'll get to that. 1048 00:32:28.843 --> 00:32:30.730 line:15% But the next project we'll look at is the Ball, 1049 00:32:30.730 --> 00:32:34.010 line:15% where I went to a series of BNS balls around the country 1050 00:32:34.010 --> 00:32:36.610 line:15% and he took me to 10 of them 1051 00:32:36.610 --> 00:32:39.810 line:15% and it took me to number nine to realise, 1052 00:32:39.810 --> 00:32:42.710 line:15% oh my God, I haven't even brought my Citizen camera along. 1053 00:32:44.693 --> 00:32:48.200 line:15% So, I don't have many portraits from that time, 1054 00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:49.500 line:15% and that, excuse me, 1055 00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:50.333 line:15% that was, 1056 00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:55.250 line:15% one of the last two I went to grab a portrait of Brad's. 1057 00:32:55.250 --> 00:32:56.786 line:15% Yeah. 1058 00:32:56.786 --> 00:32:58.020 We'll have a quick look at these last two 1059 00:32:58.020 --> 00:32:58.990 in the Citizen set, 1060 00:32:58.990 --> 00:33:00.980 and then we will move on to The Ball. 1061 00:33:00.980 --> 00:33:02.343 line:15% So, this is Reg, 1062 00:33:03.190 --> 00:33:05.830 line:15% and what the most recent Citizen image, 1063 00:33:05.830 --> 00:33:08.217 line:15% which hot off the press, Delma. 1064 00:33:09.135 --> 00:33:10.699 line:15% Delma, yeah. 1065 00:33:10.699 --> 00:33:12.010 line:15% Can I talk about Reg 1066 00:33:12.010 --> 00:33:15.686 line:15% 'cause it is-- Yeah, of corse. 1067 00:33:15.686 --> 00:33:17.420 line:15% He wasn't, no, was he? 1068 00:33:17.420 --> 00:33:18.253 line:15% No, it was a different trip. 1069 00:33:18.253 --> 00:33:19.086 line:15% But anyway, 1070 00:33:19.086 --> 00:33:21.260 line:15% he's coming back and sort of hitting sunset 1071 00:33:21.260 --> 00:33:22.360 line:15% and he arrived at this, 1072 00:33:22.360 --> 00:33:23.960 line:15% just check in 1073 00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:26.840 line:15% on the spot and he came straight up to talk to me, Reg 1074 00:33:26.840 --> 00:33:29.570 line:15% and the light was fading, 1075 00:33:29.570 --> 00:33:31.190 line:15% and before he had time to say much more, 1076 00:33:31.190 --> 00:33:32.270 line:15% I said, "Reg," 1077 00:33:32.270 --> 00:33:33.850 line:15% and this is how he approached me 1078 00:33:33.850 --> 00:33:36.339 line:15% with his camouflaged long Johns, 1079 00:33:36.339 --> 00:33:38.890 line:15% and I said, "I really like your portrait Reg." 1080 00:33:38.890 --> 00:33:40.657 line:15% And he was so pleasant to deal. 1081 00:33:40.657 --> 00:33:42.280 line:15% And you know, we photographed, 1082 00:33:42.280 --> 00:33:43.750 line:15% we've got six frames out of it 1083 00:33:43.750 --> 00:33:45.770 line:15% before I ran out of film, 1084 00:33:45.770 --> 00:33:46.700 line:15% no time to reload, 1085 00:33:46.700 --> 00:33:47.860 line:15% the light was gone. 1086 00:33:47.860 --> 00:33:49.160 line:15% But he, 1087 00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:50.690 line:15% then afterwards we talked at length 1088 00:33:50.690 --> 00:33:52.230 line:15% and he 1089 00:33:52.230 --> 00:33:53.063 line:15% he'd never 1090 00:33:53.063 --> 00:33:55.150 line:15% been asked for his portrait to be taken 1091 00:33:55.150 --> 00:33:56.250 line:15% in his whole life. 1092 00:33:56.250 --> 00:33:57.083 line:15% He was, 1093 00:33:57.083 --> 00:33:58.000 line:15% he was deaf, 1094 00:33:58.000 --> 00:33:59.480 line:15% disability pensioner, 1095 00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:01.120 line:15% just out of a lung cancer, 1096 00:34:01.120 --> 00:34:02.900 line:15% lung cancer operation, 1097 00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:05.150 line:15% his mother just died in this town, Narromine. 1098 00:34:07.050 --> 00:34:07.900 line:15% He'd inherited some money. 1099 00:34:07.900 --> 00:34:10.870 line:15% He was buying a house for that money in the same town, 1100 00:34:10.870 --> 00:34:12.010 line:15% and he was staying in this motel. 1101 00:34:12.010 --> 00:34:12.843 line:15% And like, 1102 00:34:12.843 --> 00:34:14.580 line:15% it was this amazing story 1103 00:34:14.580 --> 00:34:16.220 line:15% out of 1104 00:34:16.220 --> 00:34:18.050 line:15% this gentle character who'd approached me. 1105 00:34:18.050 --> 00:34:19.326 line:15% And, 1106 00:34:19.326 --> 00:34:20.159 line:15% you know, 1107 00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:21.540 line:15% I find that, 1108 00:34:21.540 --> 00:34:24.280 line:15% that's what I take away privately, 1109 00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:25.580 line:15% those, 1110 00:34:25.580 --> 00:34:26.413 line:15% those extra. 1111 00:34:26.413 --> 00:34:28.813 line:15% Like I remember everything from every portrait. 1112 00:34:30.695 --> 00:34:32.180 line:15% You know, I remember how I felt that day. 1113 00:34:32.180 --> 00:34:33.013 line:15% I remember the weather, 1114 00:34:33.013 --> 00:34:34.330 line:15% I remember the 1115 00:34:34.330 --> 00:34:35.870 line:15% smells. All the senses. 1116 00:34:35.870 --> 00:34:38.480 line:15% When I take photographs and meet people, 1117 00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:41.440 line:15% my senses are just hyper-alert 1118 00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:43.680 line:15% and you know, in between not so much. 1119 00:34:43.680 --> 00:34:45.910 And it's just this kind of memory bank, 1120 00:34:45.910 --> 00:34:48.000 it's almost my own little personal diary 1121 00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:48.833 and it's sort of, 1122 00:34:48.833 --> 00:34:50.730 it's, I don't know what comes first. 1123 00:34:50.730 --> 00:34:53.080 It's sort of part of my life so much that it's, 1124 00:34:55.100 --> 00:34:58.810 I don't know if the photography or life is so intertwined, 1125 00:34:58.810 --> 00:35:00.743 those moments of meeting people. 1126 00:35:02.750 --> 00:35:04.590 line:15% Anyway, I've digressed. 1127 00:35:04.590 --> 00:35:05.570 line:15% No. Not at all. 1128 00:35:05.570 --> 00:35:06.403 line:15% I'm just, 1129 00:35:06.403 --> 00:35:07.236 line:15% we should, 1130 00:35:07.236 --> 00:35:08.860 line:15% we should have a quick look at the, 1131 00:35:08.860 --> 00:35:11.350 line:15% the next series, The Ball. 1132 00:35:11.350 --> 00:35:13.920 line:15% I reckon, for most of these, you can almost, 1133 00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:16.180 line:15% it's one of those kind of evocative series 1134 00:35:16.180 --> 00:35:17.610 line:15% that we'll just move through 1135 00:35:17.610 --> 00:35:19.140 line:15% as you talk about the series, 1136 00:35:19.140 --> 00:35:21.200 line:15% we won't actually pause on any of the photographs 1137 00:35:21.200 --> 00:35:23.450 line:15% because it's something that has to be seen almost 1138 00:35:23.450 --> 00:35:25.560 line:15% as a series, as a whole, 1139 00:35:25.560 --> 00:35:26.393 line:15% and 1140 00:35:26.393 --> 00:35:27.226 line:15% it feels, 1141 00:35:27.226 --> 00:35:29.210 line:15% I can smell this experience. 1142 00:35:29.210 --> 00:35:31.040 line:15% And when you first sent the images through, 1143 00:35:31.040 --> 00:35:31.873 line:15% I was like, 1144 00:35:31.873 --> 00:35:34.590 line:15% oh, it's like one BNS Ball that Ingvar has gone, 1145 00:35:34.590 --> 00:35:35.510 line:15% and he shot. 1146 00:35:35.510 --> 00:35:38.183 line:15% Turns out it's like, how many, nine BNS Balls? 1147 00:35:38.183 --> 00:35:41.030 line:15% 10 I believe. Yeah. Yap. I defy anyone to be able 1148 00:35:41.030 --> 00:35:42.160 line:15% to tell which one is which, 1149 00:35:42.160 --> 00:35:43.863 line:15% because they're almost, 1150 00:35:43.863 --> 00:35:44.730 line:15% dear dear. 1151 00:35:44.730 --> 00:35:45.563 line:15% Let's just, 1152 00:35:45.563 --> 00:35:47.540 line:15% let's just dive right in BNS Ball. 1153 00:35:47.540 --> 00:35:48.850 line:15% That was the first one actually, 1154 00:35:48.850 --> 00:35:51.270 line:15% that's from the first one in Goondiwindi Queensland. 1155 00:35:51.270 --> 00:35:53.903 line:15% So that's a 12 hour car drive from Sydney. 1156 00:35:54.740 --> 00:35:56.180 line:15% Sleep somewhere along the way, 1157 00:35:56.180 --> 00:35:57.130 line:15% arrive at midday, 1158 00:35:57.130 --> 00:35:58.900 line:15% and then it started and it... 1159 00:35:58.900 --> 00:36:00.950 line:15% This is the first one and it came about... 1160 00:36:00.950 --> 00:36:01.783 line:15% I have, 1161 00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:04.610 line:15% I did a book called Hedgehog and the, 1162 00:36:04.610 --> 00:36:05.820 line:15% the hedgehog and the foxes, 1163 00:36:05.820 --> 00:36:07.830 line:15% which was 48 hours with this adult 1164 00:36:08.730 --> 00:36:11.190 line:15% film star, Ron Jeremy. 1165 00:36:11.190 --> 00:36:13.320 line:15% With very similar nature this, 1166 00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:14.610 line:15% he was going from party to party 1167 00:36:14.610 --> 00:36:17.310 line:15% with bottles of rum that his face on and 1168 00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:19.273 line:15% similar approach. 1169 00:36:19.273 --> 00:36:20.970 line:15% This is shot digitally by the way, 1170 00:36:21.950 --> 00:36:22.783 line:15% because of the nature of it. 1171 00:36:22.783 --> 00:36:24.346 line:15% But, 1172 00:36:24.346 --> 00:36:26.270 line:15% and I had done karaoke shots. 1173 00:36:26.270 --> 00:36:27.510 line:15% So sort of, 1174 00:36:27.510 --> 00:36:31.000 line:15% sort of dabble in images that are on where 1175 00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:31.940 line:15% alcohol is involved 1176 00:36:31.940 --> 00:36:33.890 line:15% and my friend Simon Harrison said, 1177 00:36:33.890 --> 00:36:35.410 line:15% you should look into BNS Ball, 1178 00:36:35.410 --> 00:36:36.810 line:15% and I'd never heard of them. 1179 00:36:37.928 --> 00:36:39.570 line:15% Never came, I've been here a long time, 1180 00:36:39.570 --> 00:36:40.417 line:15% but never heard of them, 1181 00:36:40.417 --> 00:36:42.880 line:15% and so I looked up the first one and 1182 00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:45.320 line:15% it was mind-blowing 1183 00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:46.290 line:15% in every sense. 1184 00:36:46.290 --> 00:36:47.123 line:15% And, 1185 00:36:49.350 --> 00:36:51.660 line:15% it was an idea of doing drunk Australia project, 1186 00:36:51.660 --> 00:36:53.410 line:15% but this felt so uniquely 1187 00:36:53.410 --> 00:36:54.370 line:15% separate, 1188 00:36:54.370 --> 00:36:56.400 line:15% and so it became its own thing called The Ball. 1189 00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:57.233 line:15% Yeah. 1190 00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:01.460 line:15% And they were strangely repetitive. 1191 00:37:01.460 --> 00:37:02.470 line:15% It is like you're, 1192 00:37:02.470 --> 00:37:04.070 line:15% like, you're relieving. 1193 00:37:04.070 --> 00:37:04.903 line:15% I've been to 10, 1194 00:37:04.903 --> 00:37:05.960 line:15% and they're all very similar, 1195 00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:07.830 line:15% in structure and how they go about things, 1196 00:37:07.830 --> 00:37:08.663 line:15% and 1197 00:37:10.097 --> 00:37:11.602 line:15% I felt like I was going back in the past, 1198 00:37:11.602 --> 00:37:14.390 line:15% every time I went to one. 1199 00:37:14.390 --> 00:37:16.350 line:15% They certainly feel very Australian. 1200 00:37:16.350 --> 00:37:17.970 line:15% It would be interesting to see if this is 1201 00:37:17.970 --> 00:37:21.070 line:15% something that other countries have 1202 00:37:21.070 --> 00:37:22.810 line:15% this sort of subculture going on 1203 00:37:22.810 --> 00:37:23.969 line:15% but-- 1204 00:37:23.969 --> 00:37:24.802 line:15% I don't think. 1205 00:37:24.802 --> 00:37:26.330 line:15% Like I had a conversation with Tim Winton 1206 00:37:26.330 --> 00:37:28.080 line:15% who ended up writing it, 1207 00:37:28.080 --> 00:37:30.450 line:15% 'cause I approached him about writing forward to the book 1208 00:37:30.450 --> 00:37:34.310 line:15% and he wrote a very nice letter back of rejection 1209 00:37:34.310 --> 00:37:36.000 line:15% and said no thank you. 1210 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:37.760 line:15% But I included the letter, 1211 00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:40.256 line:15% my letter to him and his letter back to me, 1212 00:37:40.256 --> 00:37:41.089 line:15% and he sort of 1213 00:37:42.710 --> 00:37:43.710 line:15% talking in this letter, 1214 00:37:43.710 --> 00:37:44.543 line:15% but you know, 1215 00:37:44.543 --> 00:37:46.113 line:15% we have mid summit parties in Sweden, 1216 00:37:46.113 --> 00:37:48.663 line:15% that little crayfish parties they're similar. 1217 00:37:49.580 --> 00:37:50.520 line:15% Youth 1218 00:37:50.520 --> 00:37:52.292 line:15% totally out of control 1219 00:37:52.292 --> 00:37:54.792 line:15% and you have, I don't know spring break in America 1220 00:37:56.445 --> 00:37:57.278 line:15% and what it is, 1221 00:37:57.278 --> 00:37:59.160 line:15% I don't know what it is that... 1222 00:37:59.160 --> 00:38:00.594 line:15% I don't understand why, 1223 00:38:00.594 --> 00:38:01.427 line:15% I mean, I do understand why they go on 1224 00:38:01.427 --> 00:38:02.960 line:15% and then I feel like 1225 00:38:03.860 --> 00:38:06.057 line:15% previous generations had possibly more 1226 00:38:07.790 --> 00:38:08.623 line:15% rituals 1227 00:38:09.530 --> 00:38:12.050 line:15% that was passed down from previous generations. 1228 00:38:12.050 --> 00:38:15.040 line:15% Whereas now youths have to still grow up 1229 00:38:15.040 --> 00:38:16.520 line:15% and still become men and women, 1230 00:38:16.520 --> 00:38:19.060 line:15% and through the process of these parties, 1231 00:38:19.060 --> 00:38:21.670 line:15% I think is almost like an initiation into adulthood. 1232 00:38:21.670 --> 00:38:24.290 line:15% A modern way of doing it rather than being passed on 1233 00:38:24.290 --> 00:38:25.940 line:15% this knowledge from previous gen, 1234 00:38:26.980 --> 00:38:29.300 line:15% to be quick and kind of vague about it. 1235 00:38:29.300 --> 00:38:30.240 line:15% But I don't know. 1236 00:38:30.240 --> 00:38:32.620 line:15% I don't know why they're going but... 1237 00:38:32.620 --> 00:38:33.690 line:15% In this case, 1238 00:38:33.690 --> 00:38:34.523 line:15% you have 1239 00:38:35.500 --> 00:38:37.690 line:15% people who live on farms for 11 months of the year, 1240 00:38:37.690 --> 00:38:39.640 line:15% never seeing much more than their folks 1241 00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:41.960 line:15% in other farm hands 1242 00:38:41.960 --> 00:38:44.730 line:15% and they get a shot at going to a party, 1243 00:38:44.730 --> 00:38:45.750 line:15% five hours drive away. 1244 00:38:45.750 --> 00:38:46.583 line:15% They'll take it, 1245 00:38:46.583 --> 00:38:50.600 line:15% and they'll do the most of what they can in that 48 hours. 1246 00:38:50.600 --> 00:38:51.700 line:15% And 1247 00:38:51.700 --> 00:38:52.803 line:15% that's what happens. 1248 00:38:56.130 --> 00:38:56.963 line:15% And we'll just, 1249 00:38:56.963 --> 00:38:59.924 line:15% we'll leave the BNS Balls on this delightful shot. 1250 00:38:59.924 --> 00:39:02.120 line:15% (both laughing) 1251 00:39:02.120 --> 00:39:04.190 line:15% But we probably have just enough time, 1252 00:39:04.190 --> 00:39:06.370 line:15% another five minutes to talk about 1253 00:39:06.370 --> 00:39:09.083 line:15% your move into movie direction Ingvar. 1254 00:39:10.080 --> 00:39:10.913 line:15% Yes. 1255 00:39:10.913 --> 00:39:12.580 line:15% Would you like to show the trailer first 1256 00:39:12.580 --> 00:39:14.400 line:15% before we start talking about it? 1257 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:15.733 line:15% Should we do that? 1258 00:39:15.733 --> 00:39:16.566 line:15% Let's do that. Yeah. 1259 00:39:16.566 --> 00:39:17.700 line:15% Okay. Hector, would you mind 1260 00:39:17.700 --> 00:39:19.500 line:15% screening that short trailer 1261 00:39:19.500 --> 00:39:21.450 line:15% for people to have a sense of the land? 1262 00:39:23.924 --> 00:39:26.841 (slow tense music) 1263 00:39:41.010 --> 00:39:43.210 When's the last time you went to the land? 1264 00:39:48.460 --> 00:39:50.690 He's really come into his own, you know. 1265 00:39:50.690 --> 00:39:53.123 He's not the guy you used to know. 1266 00:39:53.123 --> 00:39:54.206 I miss you. 1267 00:40:00.470 --> 00:40:01.803 You should go. 1268 00:40:02.836 --> 00:40:05.169 Into the land you should go. 1269 00:40:08.539 --> 00:40:11.039 (car roaring) 1270 00:40:13.195 --> 00:40:15.307 Be good for you. 1271 00:40:15.307 --> 00:40:16.307 Both of you. 1272 00:40:19.615 --> 00:40:21.010 You're the one who ran off to Hollywood 1273 00:40:21.010 --> 00:40:23.660 to become a superstar, right? (people laughing) 1274 00:40:23.660 --> 00:40:24.660 line:15% How'd it go? 1275 00:40:27.755 --> 00:40:30.860 line:15% (fire crackling) 1276 00:40:30.860 --> 00:40:33.050 line:15% Jess you can talk there's no one else here. 1277 00:40:33.910 --> 00:40:34.805 line:15% Jane Phillips. 1278 00:40:34.805 --> 00:40:36.677 line:15% You'll never think about her. 1279 00:40:37.790 --> 00:40:40.200 line:15% She's never getting away from me. 1280 00:40:40.200 --> 00:40:41.050 line:15% She's up in here. 1281 00:40:42.380 --> 00:40:43.213 line:15% She was scared. 1282 00:40:43.213 --> 00:40:44.046 line:15% She went to the cops. 1283 00:40:44.046 --> 00:40:45.270 line:15% She was scared. 1284 00:40:45.270 --> 00:40:48.403 line:15% And if there'd been a case to answer then why didn't we. 1285 00:40:48.403 --> 00:40:50.640 line:15% (road rustling) 1286 00:40:50.640 --> 00:40:53.307 (woman moaning) 1287 00:40:54.399 --> 00:40:55.944 (banging on the door) 1288 00:40:55.944 --> 00:40:58.980 (woman crying) 1289 00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:00.380 You fuck my wife and bring her to my fucking door, 1290 00:41:00.380 --> 00:41:04.045 this piece of shit own everything nothing's mine. 1291 00:41:04.045 --> 00:41:05.451 (glass tinkling) 1292 00:41:05.451 --> 00:41:06.677 (table thudding) 1293 00:41:06.677 --> 00:41:09.344 (man screaming) 1294 00:41:11.002 --> 00:41:14.799 (man breathing heavily) 1295 00:41:14.799 --> 00:41:17.799 (crickets chirping) 1296 00:41:28.820 --> 00:41:31.250 line:15% I get goosebumps watching that trailer. 1297 00:41:31.250 --> 00:41:33.260 line:15% It's such a powerful, 1298 00:41:33.260 --> 00:41:34.200 line:15% powerful imagery, 1299 00:41:34.200 --> 00:41:35.060 line:15% powerful stories. 1300 00:41:35.060 --> 00:41:36.130 line:15% Can you tell us a little bit about 1301 00:41:36.130 --> 00:41:37.543 line:15% how the project came about? 1302 00:41:38.830 --> 00:41:41.820 Yeah. Like two friends of mine, 1303 00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:43.840 Steve and Cameron, 1304 00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:45.990 who I have known for quite a long time. 1305 00:41:45.990 --> 00:41:46.823 These two guys, 1306 00:41:46.823 --> 00:41:48.800 they are the writers, 1307 00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:49.800 and actors in the film. 1308 00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:52.793 They came with me to this talk I had with my, 1309 00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:55.513 me and my partner at the time, 1310 00:41:56.530 --> 00:41:57.840 up in Walcha National park. 1311 00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:59.887 Just as a boys weekend and things, 1312 00:41:59.887 --> 00:42:02.470 spun out of control a bit and 1313 00:42:02.470 --> 00:42:04.010 it was a fun boys weekend. 1314 00:42:04.010 --> 00:42:06.350 And then three months post that trip 1315 00:42:06.350 --> 00:42:08.700 they came back to me with a script and said, 1316 00:42:08.700 --> 00:42:10.650 look, we have this script floating around for two, 1317 00:42:10.650 --> 00:42:12.740 couple of years. They've been working on and we decided 1318 00:42:12.740 --> 00:42:14.320 to rewrite it 1319 00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:16.540 to sort of take place mainly up, 1320 00:42:16.540 --> 00:42:18.090 where we were like on the land, 1321 00:42:20.150 --> 00:42:23.290 and do you wanna direct it and it's, 1322 00:42:23.290 --> 00:42:24.440 that's how it happened, 1323 00:42:25.629 --> 00:42:27.280 that's 10 years ago. 1324 00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:28.410 And 1325 00:42:28.410 --> 00:42:29.360 then we would come, 1326 00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:31.060 line:15% back and forth for three years, 1327 00:42:31.060 --> 00:42:32.370 line:15% developing the scripts. 1328 00:42:32.370 --> 00:42:36.140 line:15% They wrote it and we had sort of script developing chats, 1329 00:42:36.140 --> 00:42:39.090 line:15% and then a fourth person, Greg Ferris came along, 1330 00:42:39.090 --> 00:42:39.923 line:15% who we all knew, 1331 00:42:39.923 --> 00:42:40.756 line:15% or they knew more, 1332 00:42:40.756 --> 00:42:42.910 line:15% but I met him and he, 1333 00:42:42.910 --> 00:42:45.020 line:15% he knew everything about filmmaking, 1334 00:42:45.020 --> 00:42:47.720 line:15% and he became the sort of the, 1335 00:42:47.720 --> 00:42:48.960 line:15% the possibility, like he, 1336 00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:50.150 line:15% with him came the possibility 1337 00:42:50.150 --> 00:42:52.390 line:15% we can actually make this film 1338 00:42:52.390 --> 00:42:54.337 line:15% because he knew about cameras 1339 00:42:54.337 --> 00:42:56.390 line:15% and what we needed to shoot something, 1340 00:42:56.390 --> 00:42:59.410 line:15% to look cinematic and be able to screen on the big screen 1341 00:42:59.410 --> 00:43:00.880 and all these other things. 1342 00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:03.130 So together, we set out to shoot this film 1343 00:43:03.130 --> 00:43:04.603 over a year and a half. 1344 00:43:06.700 --> 00:43:08.050 You know, around family life 1345 00:43:08.050 --> 00:43:09.317 and everything else that goes on, 1346 00:43:09.317 --> 00:43:12.852 so the shot process was 35 days over the course of that. 1347 00:43:12.852 --> 00:43:14.120 You know, it could be a two hour shoot in the morning 1348 00:43:14.120 --> 00:43:15.330 we have people that go to work 1349 00:43:15.330 --> 00:43:17.280 or we shot a long weekend up on the land 1350 00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:18.430 and it's just plotted along. 1351 00:43:18.430 --> 00:43:19.570 And then after that, 1352 00:43:19.570 --> 00:43:22.230 it's been a five-year process of doing the post-work 1353 00:43:22.230 --> 00:43:23.570 because we never had funding. 1354 00:43:23.570 --> 00:43:27.330 So we'd been doing it with a lot of help of people 1355 00:43:27.330 --> 00:43:28.163 who, you know, 1356 00:43:29.070 --> 00:43:31.690 line:15% editors and colour graders, 1357 00:43:31.690 --> 00:43:32.820 line:15% some sound designers. 1358 00:43:32.820 --> 00:43:33.840 line:15% It's all come on board 1359 00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:36.920 line:15% and helped us with this film to get it to where it's at. 1360 00:43:38.163 --> 00:43:39.380 line:15% And do you think that 1361 00:43:39.380 --> 00:43:41.800 line:15% after this experience you'll be moving into 1362 00:43:41.800 --> 00:43:44.640 line:15% that filmmaking area 1363 00:43:44.640 --> 00:43:45.480 line:15% with your career? 1364 00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:47.010 line:15% Or is this something--? 1365 00:43:47.966 --> 00:43:49.845 line:15% I don't know. 1366 00:43:49.845 --> 00:43:50.810 It was, 1367 00:43:50.810 --> 00:43:52.500 it was hard 1368 00:43:52.500 --> 00:43:53.480 because there was no money, 1369 00:43:53.480 --> 00:43:54.640 but it was also brilliant 1370 00:43:54.640 --> 00:43:55.700 because there was no money. 1371 00:43:55.700 --> 00:43:58.560 'Cause you don't need to answer to anything 1372 00:43:58.560 --> 00:44:00.630 except the creative chapter 1373 00:44:00.630 --> 00:44:02.580 between four friends in the sense. 1374 00:44:02.580 --> 00:44:03.610 So, it was, 1375 00:44:03.610 --> 00:44:05.100 it was an amazing experience 1376 00:44:05.100 --> 00:44:05.933 and you know, I'll be, 1377 00:44:05.933 --> 00:44:07.330 I'll be happy to look at something, 1378 00:44:07.330 --> 00:44:09.980 but sort of still feels like I'm working on this film, 1379 00:44:09.980 --> 00:44:11.380 trying to 1380 00:44:11.380 --> 00:44:12.960 now after some festivals, 1381 00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:14.444 trying to get it 1382 00:44:14.444 --> 00:44:16.430 out the streaming and now you sort of, 1383 00:44:16.430 --> 00:44:17.850 the producers hat is on 1384 00:44:17.850 --> 00:44:19.210 and you try, 1385 00:44:19.210 --> 00:44:20.983 line:15% together we try to find ways of, 1386 00:44:22.640 --> 00:44:23.573 line:15% giving it life, 1387 00:44:24.620 --> 00:44:25.620 line:15% beyond the festival. 1388 00:44:25.620 --> 00:44:27.830 line:15% So, we're still working on this film and yeah, 1389 00:44:27.830 --> 00:44:28.680 line:15% I'll be, 1390 00:44:28.680 --> 00:44:30.060 line:15% I'm doing motion, 1391 00:44:30.060 --> 00:44:31.103 line:15% commercially, 1392 00:44:31.970 --> 00:44:33.810 line:15% ads and, 1393 00:44:33.810 --> 00:44:35.610 line:15% and short documentaries 1394 00:44:35.610 --> 00:44:37.023 line:15% and yes, I still. 1395 00:44:39.210 --> 00:44:40.670 line:15% It's reality, you need to do both, 1396 00:44:40.670 --> 00:44:42.540 line:15% but I'd say my love is photography 1397 00:44:42.540 --> 00:44:44.768 line:15% and this is a great way of spending my time 1398 00:44:44.768 --> 00:44:45.601 line:15% when I don't do photography. 1399 00:44:45.601 --> 00:44:47.294 line:15% I do like it. 1400 00:44:47.294 --> 00:44:48.457 line:15% It's a totally different thing. 1401 00:44:48.457 --> 00:44:51.120 line:15% Obviously it's a collaboration on a massive scale 1402 00:44:51.120 --> 00:44:53.500 line:15% compared to being you with a camera 1403 00:44:53.500 --> 00:44:55.083 line:15% and both have its place. 1404 00:44:56.629 --> 00:44:58.110 line:15% I knew it. 1405 00:44:58.110 --> 00:45:00.690 line:15% I think that might be all we have time for I'm afraid. 1406 00:45:00.690 --> 00:45:03.220 line:15% Although I could sit and listen to stories 1407 00:45:03.220 --> 00:45:05.420 line:15% and look at your photography for hours. 1408 00:45:05.420 --> 00:45:07.730 line:15% It's just, there's so much that I take from it 1409 00:45:07.730 --> 00:45:09.742 line:15% every time I have a look at your work, 1410 00:45:09.742 --> 00:45:10.846 line:15% Ingvar. Oh, great. 1411 00:45:10.846 --> 00:45:13.650 line:15% Thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. 1412 00:45:13.650 --> 00:45:14.730 line:15% Thanks for having me. 1413 00:45:14.730 --> 00:45:16.126 line:15% It was great. 1414 00:45:16.126 --> 00:45:17.090 line:15% And Matt, 1415 00:45:17.090 --> 00:45:19.340 line:15% the wonderful Matt who's been managing our chat 1416 00:45:19.340 --> 00:45:20.590 in zoom and on Facebook, 1417 00:45:20.590 --> 00:45:24.580 we'll be dropping links for The Land and various other, 1418 00:45:24.580 --> 00:45:26.620 The Citizen book and The Ball book 1419 00:45:26.620 --> 00:45:28.290 and the website. 1420 00:45:28.290 --> 00:45:29.130 Ingvar has a website, 1421 00:45:29.130 --> 00:45:31.410 so if you'd like to check out more of Ingvar's work, 1422 00:45:31.410 --> 00:45:33.677 please do jump on the website and have a look, 1423 00:45:33.677 --> 00:45:34.900 and yeah. 1424 00:45:34.900 --> 00:45:37.870 Until next time, we've got plenty more virtual programmes 1425 00:45:37.870 --> 00:45:40.200 coming up throughout December, 1426 00:45:40.200 --> 00:45:43.230 and then we're gonna take a short break over Christmas. 1427 00:45:43.230 --> 00:45:45.280 So please, a block back in your diaries 1428 00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:47.740 to come back to us late in January, early February, 1429 00:45:47.740 --> 00:45:48.573 when we bring, 1430 00:45:48.573 --> 00:45:51.850 kickoff our next round of virtual programmes next year, 1431 00:45:51.850 --> 00:45:53.860 until then please jump on our website, 1432 00:45:53.860 --> 00:45:55.230 portrait.gov.au, 1433 00:45:55.230 --> 00:45:57.210 or follow us on socials @portrait AU, 1434 00:45:57.210 --> 00:45:58.640 and you'll be able to keep up to date 1435 00:45:58.640 --> 00:45:59.840 with all of the other programmes 1436 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:01.750 that are coming down the pipeline. 1437 00:46:01.750 --> 00:46:03.720 Thank you so much once again for joining us 1438 00:46:03.720 --> 00:46:06.180 and we hope to see you online again soon. 1439 00:46:06.180 --> 00:46:07.283 Take care. Bye bye.