WEBVTT

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hello everyone and welcome to another

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virtual program with the national

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portrait gallery my name's gill and i am

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very lucky to work with the digital team

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here at the national portrait gallery we

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have a cast of thousands bringing this

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production to you today no just kidding

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we have like a handful of people but we

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do have steph on facebook if you're

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joining us live on facebook she's going

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to be looking after your comments and

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your questions in there today and matt

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is joining us in the zoom chat so

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everybody knows matt from our tuesday

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and thursday programs

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and we have hector and robert behind the

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scenes doing working there digital magic

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so we do love interactivity with our

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programs i'm sure those of you have

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joined us before and i can see quite a

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few familiar faces coming through the

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zoom door today

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if you've

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we do love our programs to be

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interactive so if you have any questions

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or comments or observations throughout

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the program please pop them into the

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chat section on zoom or

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shoot them along in the facebook

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comments and we'll do our best to get

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some of those questions through to our

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presenters today

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um it's very

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fitting that uh on for a program

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considering representation for first

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nations people in the portrait gallery

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collection that i would like to

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acknowledge the traditional custodians

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of the land on which the national

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portrait gallery sits the beautiful

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lands here in canberra of an ambry and

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none of all peoples

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and i'd like to pay my respects to their

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elders path present and emerging as well

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as extending a very warm welcome to any

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of the first nations people who may be

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joining us for this program today

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now this morning i actually came into

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the national portrait gallery

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uh how exciting we are getting very busy

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to reopen our doors this friday the 29th

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of october

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after some time in lockdown i

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am actually not sitting in the gallery

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space at the moment although i could be

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given that there's no public here at the

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moment i am sitting in the digital

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studio

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um downstairs

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so a little virtual background here

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little smoke and mirrors but i was also

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super excited to see some faces that i

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had not seen for a very long time some

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of my dear colleagues here at the

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portrait gallery but also meet

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new staff who i have only ever met on

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zoom and one of those staff members has

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very kindly agreed to come on for this

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program today rebecca ray our associate

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curator who is hot off the press from

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the gold coast literally only just sort

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of arrived in the middle of lockdown and

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we i was really excited to be able to

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meet her in person today

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so without further ado i'd like to hand

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over to sandra bruce our director of

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collections and exhibitions to introduce

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rebecca to you all our wonderful virtual

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online community

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thanks sandra

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thanks gill

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for your warm welcome as always it's

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much appreciated and um

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it's been great over the last month or

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so getting to know you rebecca as a new

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member of the team and we're so lucky

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you were even able to

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arrive in canberra last month september

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when you hit

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hit our borders and i hope um regardless

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of doing most things over zoom that you

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feel like you're settling in with us

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here at the national portrait gallery

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yeah absolutely

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yeah so we're going to have an

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interesting chat today i think um it's

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it's a pretty um intense topic there are

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so many areas and

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spaces that we can talk about when we

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talk about considering representation

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within our genre and so probably today

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or where what we're really going to be

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doing is uh doing is is sort of touching

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on a few points that we really hope

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might spur conversation and more more

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thinking space for people in it and it

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could i guess very well set the stage

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for us to have um more uh specific

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conversations further on down the track

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which would be really great

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um

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so i guess to get the ball rolling let's

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talk about the portrait gallery and

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let's talk about what what our genre is

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what portraiture is i mean it comes from

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a very

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the way we approach it at the national

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portrait gallery it comes from a very

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western western tradition of uh

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representation where it's about

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being able to recognize ideally

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the people that you're looking at and

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get it and get a sense of who those

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people are by

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um by looking at their human faces and

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that's our way into their stories if you

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like and so the national portrait

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gallery which has been around for a few

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decades now

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is

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is very much built on that

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tradition but i think what we're trying

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to do is we're trying to

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explore

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uh what

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what australia is what australians are

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through

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an evolving sense of what

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the art form of portraiture could be so

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i look forward to us having a chat about

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that today too but do you know what i

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think

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first up let's have a little bit of a

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talk about you rebecca you're a you're a

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curator you've been in our sector in the

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gallery and museum sector for a few

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years now and so it'd be great if you

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could talk a little bit about what that

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experience has been for you um so far

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yeah thank you so much everyone um but

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yes where i start as well um i would

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just like to pay my respects um to

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elders past present and emerging here um

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and that we're here today on none of all

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the nambri country um it's really

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exciting to be here um but yeah um as

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sandra and joe said i'm rebecca

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i my lineage uh is up in the torres

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strait in the eastern islands um and i

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have connection over through in mavi yag

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as well um but

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yes a curator in the in the sector for a

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couple of years now um

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it's it's so important to have the the

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presence and visibility of first nations

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people in these spaces you know because

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for such a long time like there's been

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this history um it's been quite

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problematic and contentious

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relationships with first nations people

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particularly around like yeah the

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collection

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um and exhibition styles and display of

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indigenous material culture or visual

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culture um and you know like

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historically institutions have been

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those sort of places of knowledge and

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based on power structures so

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you know um

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these identities and cultures have been

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collected and interpreted and described

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through these western colonial lenses so

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being an and all of the time like um

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indigenous people weren't actually ever

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inside of these institutions or

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represented correctly they've always

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been

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seen through that colonial lens or a

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western dominant lens um so a lot of

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those

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perspectives and knowledges are just

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have not been

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visible you know or represented um so

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yeah um

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being able to actually be inside of it

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and be within the

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and sort of

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um contribute to the ongoing um

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i guess decolonization or

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re-indigenization of these spaces is so

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important um for you know cultural

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autonomy um acknowledgement

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representation um and cultural continuum

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continuity i think

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yeah

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yeah yeah i mean it's

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i think that there's more and more of an

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awareness around this um over the last

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few years and i hope that that just

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continues to grow because um

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i guess

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the the the white western voice might be

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the biggest voice in australia but it's

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not the only voice and we absolutely

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have to acknowledge and make room for

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um uh the the broad experiences and the

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broad cultures and the broad histories

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of

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that lives in this country and yeah

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yeah absolutely like um that yeah

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there's a lot of stories within

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australia um you know that like the

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cultural colonial historical stories and

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they all contribute to our contemporary

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society so all of them need to have a

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voice and all of them need to have a

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representation um as we continue

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yeah

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i think where we're using our

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our collection at the portrait gallery

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to illustrate some of the touch points

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today and i think you've

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brought together a bit of a selection of

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subjects in our collection that speak to

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first nations presence in the creative

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sectors

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yeah yeah yeah no that's right um so

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i've sort of picked a few works and

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people that i think have had you know

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major contributions to

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like community um and country but then

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also uh broadly into the arts sector as

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well that have sort of paved the way for

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for me to be able to be in these spaces

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you know like these long legacies of um

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advocates educators activists artists

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curators um and everything um that yeah

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have

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you know really

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started that journey to to be able to

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have

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your spaces and to normalize like our

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presence and visibility yeah so hector

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if you haven't already could you bring

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up the first slide it's a michael riley

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photograph there look at that isn't that

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beautiful yeah this is from a series

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that he created back in the mid 80s and

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into the early 90s

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yeah yeah um

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yeah so yeah i chose these works um

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exactly because they're they're such a

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beautiful collection and this is yeah

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beautiful quantum mecha

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quail um and you know

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both michael and avril are incredible

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artists and activists and advocates and

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educators of culture um but you know

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really paramount and establishing like a

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i would say like an urban voice of

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aboriginal people um you know with the

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1985 and redfern and yeah really sort of

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putting

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like

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really challenging the notion of what an

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aboriginal person is or who they are um

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and and where they're located within

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australia i would say and really

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to share that diversity um

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yeah it really put urban artists as well

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on the map in in that sense i would say

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yeah so there was there was that real

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movement in sydney in that period wasn't

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there in the redfern area yeah a real

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locus for first nations creatives yeah

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yeah um and then

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the artists that came out of that have

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really like honestly that paved the way

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for for um

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you know contemporary urban artists to

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to have representation um and it's that

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sort of re-reading retelling of history

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and identity

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yeah

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yeah so what was the uh oh look at that

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yeah that close-up's really

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extraordinary i mean

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i think one thing that really captures

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me about michael's uh riley's work from

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from that fine art perspective is his

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use of

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um

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light and shadow and the drama you know

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the drama that he pushes into this suite

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of works is is

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is just um almost heart stopping i guess

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so powerful absolutely yeah

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and this could be seen as

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very much embracing creative

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contemporary output um and and using

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using the resources of you know the

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photographic medium i suppose to to

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capture his his stories and and his um

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the people that he surrounded himself

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with those stories as well

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yeah it's almost sort of like reclaiming

00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:29.680
um

00:11:29.680 --> 00:11:32.000
photography in a sense for first nations

00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:32.959
people

00:11:32.959 --> 00:11:34.320
um

00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:36.480
considering that yeah photography can

00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:38.399
you can look back historically and see

00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:41.200
it as sort of like a colonial vehicle um

00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:43.040
no sense to yeah

00:11:43.040 --> 00:11:46.399
yeah was there another one of riley's

00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:49.279
yeah um i just had hedy perkins was the

00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:52.240
next one um yeah you know just another

00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:54.959
really great example of of photography

00:11:54.959 --> 00:11:56.480
um but also

00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:59.279
the way that you know hedy hat is such a

00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:01.680
massive legacy in in advocacy and

00:12:01.680 --> 00:12:04.000
education and curatorial work

00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:06.000
you know that um

00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:07.680
it's all just really about reclaiming

00:12:07.680 --> 00:12:09.519
that autonomy and cultural identity and

00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:11.120
sort of that true representation of who

00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:12.959
people are

00:12:12.959 --> 00:12:16.240
yeah and and i think um looking back

00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:17.680
this this is

00:12:17.680 --> 00:12:19.760
really looking back i mean

00:12:19.760 --> 00:12:20.639
um

00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:23.040
some of us are older than others and and

00:12:23.040 --> 00:12:25.680
1990 doesn't feel that long ago to me

00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:27.839
necessarily but let's face it it was 30

00:12:27.839 --> 00:12:31.120
years ago and you know hetty's um space

00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:33.519
is is one that she carved out for

00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:35.279
herself and it's a really critical one

00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:36.320
and um

00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:39.519
i think she's a very recognizable

00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:41.600
figure in our sector today yeah

00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:43.519
absolutely

00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:45.360
yeah beautiful work

00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:47.199
it really is

00:12:47.199 --> 00:12:48.880
i think um

00:12:48.880 --> 00:12:51.839
we we touched on it a little bit um

00:12:51.839 --> 00:12:53.040
briefly

00:12:53.040 --> 00:12:55.199
you know the notion of uh colonial

00:12:55.199 --> 00:12:57.120
representation of first nations people

00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:58.720
and and you know we were talking about

00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:01.279
it in the context of photography

00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:03.600
particularly but our collection does

00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:04.959
have

00:13:04.959 --> 00:13:08.240
a number of works from the colonial eras

00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:11.519
of australia so the 1800s particularly

00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:12.800
and there is

00:13:12.800 --> 00:13:15.279
representation of indigenous peoples in

00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:16.480
those but um

00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:17.839
[Music]

00:13:17.839 --> 00:13:19.120
today we've decided we're not going to

00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:20.399
show any of those haven't we because

00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:22.920
what we really want to focus on today is

00:13:22.920 --> 00:13:25.600
self-representation and um and the

00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:27.279
contemporary representation of first

00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:29.760
nations people and not necessarily we

00:13:29.760 --> 00:13:31.839
didn't really want to today play in that

00:13:31.839 --> 00:13:33.040
space of

00:13:33.040 --> 00:13:35.360
of that sort of ethnographical view that

00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:37.680
anthropological colonial

00:13:37.680 --> 00:13:39.120
um

00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:42.880
mothering that is is pretty much where

00:13:42.880 --> 00:13:45.360
where that representation came from

00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:48.000
uh again it's it's a big conversation

00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:49.839
and we might decide we might make room

00:13:49.839 --> 00:13:52.160
for that uh later on down the track as

00:13:52.160 --> 00:13:54.880
we develop these sorts of um talking

00:13:54.880 --> 00:13:57.440
series but today

00:13:57.440 --> 00:13:59.199
i think it's really great to focus on

00:13:59.199 --> 00:14:02.000
the now i guess and and our more recent

00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:03.519
um

00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:05.759
history that's gotten us to this point

00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:08.560
yeah absolutely yeah um

00:14:08.560 --> 00:14:10.800
yeah yeah the 18th and 19th centuries

00:14:10.800 --> 00:14:11.519
are

00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:14.240
like such a huge topic um in terms of

00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:16.399
you know

00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:18.720
um history and within australia

00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:21.600
particularly as well um you know

00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:23.360
they're all just about really recording

00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:25.519
first nations people um without really

00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:27.199
any considerations of their cultural

00:14:27.199 --> 00:14:29.199
connections or relationships um or

00:14:29.199 --> 00:14:31.440
belief systems um

00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:32.720
and you know yeah these types of

00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:34.639
portraits were used as archival material

00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:36.480
in journals um and

00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.680
explorer kind of situations but yeah i'm

00:14:39.680 --> 00:14:42.079
very much interested in looking at

00:14:42.079 --> 00:14:44.079
the way that we can reclaim those spaces

00:14:44.079 --> 00:14:44.880
um

00:14:44.880 --> 00:14:47.120
and use you know

00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:48.560
self

00:14:48.560 --> 00:14:50.639
acknowledgement rather than um you know

00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:52.959
it's a very important history as well um

00:14:52.959 --> 00:14:54.880
but yeah today i just would yeah love to

00:14:54.880 --> 00:14:56.720
focus on um sort of the contemporary

00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:58.839
works that are coming and how we can

00:14:58.839 --> 00:15:02.399
um be re-represented and rewrite a story

00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:05.279
or retell the story rather yeah yeah

00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:08.399
yeah and um yeah own it i suppose yeah

00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:10.480
absolutely yeah

00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:12.800
so before before we go

00:15:12.800 --> 00:15:13.759
there

00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:15.760
i think

00:15:15.760 --> 00:15:17.439
one juxtaposition that's very

00:15:17.439 --> 00:15:19.599
interesting and it's almost like a sort

00:15:19.599 --> 00:15:21.359
of a

00:15:21.359 --> 00:15:24.480
uh a linkage between uh

00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:29.679
um the western the western um primacy of

00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:31.839
of creative output in australia and then

00:15:31.839 --> 00:15:34.480
pushing pushing over into

00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:36.079
self-representation

00:15:36.079 --> 00:15:38.400
we've got a juxtaposition which is

00:15:38.400 --> 00:15:40.160
uh white

00:15:40.160 --> 00:15:43.360
artists or or non-indigenous

00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:46.000
representing indigenous subjects and um

00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:48.960
there is a rather uh a quite a

00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.039
well-known relationship from the middle

00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:52.720
of last century so the middle of the

00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:56.720
1900s which was between a white uh a

00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.679
pretty um high-profile white australian

00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:03.919
artist william dargie and um

00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:05.280
another artist who became quite a good

00:16:05.280 --> 00:16:07.039
friend of his i think albert nemecheria

00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:10.240
and we have a portrait of namajira

00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.880
in the collection from 56.

00:16:12.880 --> 00:16:14.960
yeah yeah i think um a lot of people

00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:15.840
would be

00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:17.840
absolutely familiar with these works by

00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:19.919
um william doggy about um albert

00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:21.440
nemechera

00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:23.200
but yeah i think what you just touched

00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:25.039
on sandra was um

00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.039
more of that relationship that was being

00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:28.720
built um and that friendship that sort

00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:30.799
of happened and while it is still under

00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:34.000
a white gaze um and you know not a

00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:35.360
self-portrait or anything like that

00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:37.360
there still seems there's a shift away

00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:39.120
from obviously that ethnographic where

00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:40.559
there is

00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:43.280
no other ring in a sense well yeah

00:16:43.280 --> 00:16:45.280
there's just not that

00:16:45.280 --> 00:16:47.600
archival kind of photography or

00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:48.960
portraiture that's happening here

00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:51.679
there's a connection um

00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:53.120
that's that's happening and it's that

00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:55.760
relationship between sitter and um

00:16:55.760 --> 00:16:57.919
artist um you know that portraiture is

00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:00.799
really based on as well um

00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:02.320
you know and like i see this work and

00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:03.520
there's there's

00:17:03.520 --> 00:17:05.520
like dignity in nemajira's face and it's

00:17:05.520 --> 00:17:07.360
sort of that that point where

00:17:07.360 --> 00:17:08.640
um

00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:10.960
you know indigenous people became

00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:13.360
a bit more within the media in terms of

00:17:13.360 --> 00:17:16.640
like fine art and representation um

00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:18.640
you know and we can see

00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:20.480
he's in the backdrop of his country but

00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:22.320
he's also holding

00:17:22.320 --> 00:17:24.240
a bit of his own work and you know and

00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:27.039
namajira's work has been so um paramount

00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:29.120
in like art history and australian art

00:17:29.120 --> 00:17:30.880
history as well so

00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:32.559
yeah i think it's a good example of you

00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:34.000
know there can be these relationships

00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:35.919
and connections between um

00:17:35.919 --> 00:17:37.520
non-indigenous people and indigenous

00:17:37.520 --> 00:17:39.200
people within the art world you know

00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:40.880
like there can be very beautiful

00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:42.400
connections and relationships that can

00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.720
happen and be like reap these respectful

00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:46.400
ones

00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:49.440
yeah yeah and um i was thinking of the

00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:51.120
word respect as you were talking about

00:17:51.120 --> 00:17:53.360
those relationships and it's you know

00:17:53.360 --> 00:17:55.200
it's

00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:56.559
i think we all operate under the

00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:57.840
assumption that that's at the heart of

00:17:57.840 --> 00:18:00.000
any healthy relationship is respect but

00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:01.360
sometimes there's nothing wrong with

00:18:01.360 --> 00:18:03.760
being really overt about that and just

00:18:03.760 --> 00:18:05.600
putting it right out there as being

00:18:05.600 --> 00:18:08.480
being that important yeah absolutely i

00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:11.280
yeah definitely do agree with that yeah

00:18:11.280 --> 00:18:14.080
i mean this tradition has continued um

00:18:14.080 --> 00:18:15.679
for years you know artist painting

00:18:15.679 --> 00:18:18.080
artists it's something that we generally

00:18:18.080 --> 00:18:20.640
it's not surprising that that happens um

00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:22.400
if someone wants a subject they'll um

00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:24.400
hit up uh someone they know potentially

00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:26.799
to uh to sit with them

00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:28.480
and i think we've got a much more

00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:31.280
contemporary example of that in the next

00:18:31.280 --> 00:18:33.520
in the next work hectare which is a

00:18:33.520 --> 00:18:35.520
portrait by the uh i think is

00:18:35.520 --> 00:18:38.159
sydney-based artist jasper knight

00:18:38.159 --> 00:18:41.200
yeah yeah um so yeah again another this

00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:43.440
one's yeah very different to

00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:46.400
the ninja work um but again like it's

00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:47.200
still

00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:48.080
um

00:18:48.080 --> 00:18:50.080
a white artist um yeah so jasper and

00:18:50.080 --> 00:18:52.720
then you've got recording um the

00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.919
indigenous artist um and i think

00:18:55.919 --> 00:18:57.600
what was interesting about this work is

00:18:57.600 --> 00:18:58.720
sort of

00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:00.400
there still is that relationship but it

00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:02.480
seems to be more in that kind of

00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:03.520
um

00:19:03.520 --> 00:19:06.000
the way that each artist works um in

00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:08.720
terms of you know that street art and

00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:11.200
bright bold colors and you know you can

00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.679
and you know reiko has like a huge

00:19:13.679 --> 00:19:14.559
um

00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:17.200
part where he uses um hyunpacks he's

00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:20.000
like urban identity um you know in the

00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:22.000
contemporary environments as

00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.240
where he lives um you know he's

00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:27.760
combining symbols of his his camillaric

00:19:27.760 --> 00:19:30.080
culture um with elements of that

00:19:30.080 --> 00:19:32.240
graffiti and street art to interrogate

00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:34.320
like his identity as an urban indigenous

00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:37.600
artist um and i think like with jasper's

00:19:37.600 --> 00:19:39.440
work it does come through in that like

00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:42.159
um through the use of like spray paint

00:19:42.159 --> 00:19:44.080
and then there's all those elements that

00:19:44.080 --> 00:19:45.200
touch on

00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:46.880
you know the street signs in the

00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:49.120
background um the bold colors and then

00:19:49.120 --> 00:19:51.679
you've also got that sort of tag of raco

00:19:51.679 --> 00:19:53.600
on the side that's very graffiti-esque

00:19:53.600 --> 00:19:56.240
you know um but like he's still a very

00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:58.000
dominant figure in this like he's not in

00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:00.640
the background um and he's not he like

00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.679
he is the subject um and the artist so

00:20:03.679 --> 00:20:05.600
he's also not the artist yet like he's

00:20:05.600 --> 00:20:08.240
the subject but um yeah he's not a

00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:11.039
passive body in this um so he's it's

00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:13.360
quite dominating um and it speaks to his

00:20:13.360 --> 00:20:16.720
identity about that um yeah yeah yeah

00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:18.880
and so these uh these two works um

00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:22.400
doggies namajira and um knights reni

00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:23.600
they're

00:20:23.600 --> 00:20:26.159
60 odd years apart but there's a very

00:20:26.159 --> 00:20:28.159
similar conjunction happening between

00:20:28.159 --> 00:20:31.039
artist and sitter where um

00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:33.360
the artist is acknowledging the style of

00:20:33.360 --> 00:20:35.360
the sitter because it's one that's

00:20:35.360 --> 00:20:37.280
that's also um

00:20:37.280 --> 00:20:40.159
embraced by them yeah i think and i

00:20:40.159 --> 00:20:42.000
think it does speak again as you say to

00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:43.840
that to that sort of

00:20:43.840 --> 00:20:46.000
and honesty one would hope within the

00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:48.000
relationship between the two individuals

00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.280
because i think the best portraits are

00:20:51.280 --> 00:20:52.640
going to be ones where it's almost a

00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:55.120
collaboration between the artist and the

00:20:55.120 --> 00:20:57.840
skinner and the artist is trying to pull

00:20:57.840 --> 00:21:00.000
they're using their creative lens

00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.919
or their in this instance their creative

00:21:01.919 --> 00:21:04.799
spray can maybe your brush to um to pull

00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:08.320
out elements of the sitter for us to

00:21:08.320 --> 00:21:09.679
help us get a bit more of an

00:21:09.679 --> 00:21:11.600
understanding about who we're looking at

00:21:11.600 --> 00:21:13.520
yeah no definitely that's that

00:21:13.520 --> 00:21:15.440
collaboration um

00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:16.960
yeah yeah there needs to be

00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:18.559
collaboration in a relationship that

00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:20.320
occurs um for it to be a really good

00:21:20.320 --> 00:21:24.320
work i think um portraiture yeah yeah

00:21:24.320 --> 00:21:27.120
so then we do move into

00:21:27.120 --> 00:21:29.280
um

00:21:29.280 --> 00:21:31.120
representation of indigenous people by

00:21:31.120 --> 00:21:32.960
indigenous people so we went there we

00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:34.720
went there with michael riley's sweet

00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.760
from from the 80s and 90s but if we if

00:21:37.760 --> 00:21:42.320
we fast forward a little bit um

00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:44.640
one thing that the portrait gallery that

00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:46.960
we have in our remit is to commission

00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:48.720
contemporary portraiture

00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:49.919
to

00:21:49.919 --> 00:21:53.200
target um a significant person that has

00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:55.760
been important to how australia

00:21:55.760 --> 00:21:57.679
has and is evolving

00:21:57.679 --> 00:22:00.240
and then align them with an artist and

00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.400
to ideally present something absolutely

00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:04.320
beautiful and amazing and

00:22:04.320 --> 00:22:06.400
one that we did a little over 10 years

00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:09.520
ago now was of the extraordinary marcia

00:22:09.520 --> 00:22:11.760
langton

00:22:11.760 --> 00:22:13.360
yeah yeah

00:22:13.360 --> 00:22:15.760
if we go to the yeah i i really love

00:22:15.760 --> 00:22:17.600
this book i think it's super awesome and

00:22:17.600 --> 00:22:21.039
super cool um but i think it really um

00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:23.120
it pushes the boundaries so much of what

00:22:23.120 --> 00:22:25.600
that idea of traditional portraiture is

00:22:25.600 --> 00:22:26.400
um

00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:28.240
you know and it really reflects on the

00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:29.760
the sort of diverse spiritual and

00:22:29.760 --> 00:22:30.799
cultural

00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:33.520
um experiences of people um you know

00:22:33.520 --> 00:22:35.919
like in this work marcia is

00:22:35.919 --> 00:22:38.080
you know she's portrayed as like

00:22:38.080 --> 00:22:40.559
uh herself and as or as an indigenous

00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:42.799
person but you know it's a series of

00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:45.600
dynamic flowing um

00:22:45.600 --> 00:22:47.440
events i suppose rather than just sort

00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:49.120
of like this racialized perception of an

00:22:49.120 --> 00:22:51.279
indigenous person as well which i think

00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:53.039
is really cool um

00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:54.320
and you know

00:22:54.320 --> 00:22:56.240
it speaks about so many different parts

00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:58.640
of mastery as a person um both in a

00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:00.480
private and professional

00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:03.520
um persona i guess and then

00:23:03.520 --> 00:23:04.960
touching back on what we were just

00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:06.000
speaking about in terms of that

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.240
collaboration you can you can really can

00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:10.400
see that collaboration between brooke

00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:13.679
andrews and marcia between um both of

00:23:13.679 --> 00:23:15.120
the really things that are important to

00:23:15.120 --> 00:23:17.600
them um are coming through in this in

00:23:17.600 --> 00:23:19.360
this screen printed collage you know

00:23:19.360 --> 00:23:21.279
with the diamond cut that's from brooks

00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:22.960
cultural heritage

00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:26.320
and then we've also got like the beliefs

00:23:26.320 --> 00:23:28.000
um you know the private beliefs that

00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:30.559
master has with and and then like in

00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:32.159
interest

00:23:32.159 --> 00:23:34.640
interested in hinduism and buddhism um

00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:36.559
you know um

00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:37.679
but also

00:23:37.679 --> 00:23:40.559
fused with like her aboriginal um

00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:42.960
beliefs as well you know um and there's

00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:44.240
that really great

00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:46.799
music fusing of that but we also see

00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:48.880
like all these elements that a lot of

00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:50.559
people know marcia here for like you know

00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:52.170
she's a really um

00:23:53.760 --> 00:23:55.039
you know renowned indigenous

00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:57.600
anthropologist um and

00:23:57.600 --> 00:23:59.520
she's done so much work as well around

00:23:59.520 --> 00:24:00.559
like

00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:02.720
traditional fire management um and fire

00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:05.440
use and aboriginal communities but also

00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.880
um you know and and mining industries

00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:10.240
and everything so

00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:11.360
and you know that's where we can see the

00:24:11.360 --> 00:24:14.320
diamond cup comes back in through yeah

00:24:14.320 --> 00:24:15.440
so

00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:18.400
yeah i think that's a it's a really

00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:21.360
really important work um because it's it

00:24:21.360 --> 00:24:23.279
yeah really pushes past

00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:25.600
what people would think portraiture is i

00:24:25.600 --> 00:24:27.520
guess exactly yeah and it's and it's

00:24:27.520 --> 00:24:29.679
monumental i mean in your way you're

00:24:29.679 --> 00:24:30.559
getting

00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:32.159
rebecca with your backdrop today you can

00:24:32.159 --> 00:24:34.240
get a sense of the scale of it and it's

00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:36.400
it's got an extraordinary presence when

00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:38.320
you when you're with it in the gallery

00:24:38.320 --> 00:24:39.520
spaces

00:24:40.600 --> 00:24:44.279
um but yeah when it comes to

00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:48.039
when it comes to representation and and

00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:50.279
in our genre so thinking about what

00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:52.440
portraiture is that that's one of the

00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:54.679
reasons why this is such an amazing work

00:24:54.679 --> 00:24:57.080
it really does broaden people's

00:24:57.080 --> 00:24:59.159
expectations of what they might possibly

00:24:59.159 --> 00:24:59.960
see

00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:01.880
um when it comes to learning about

00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:03.799
someone through through that person's

00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:06.279
portrait because it's not traditional

00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:08.679
but it is still very much the subject it

00:25:08.679 --> 00:25:10.840
is still very much marcia acting

00:25:10.840 --> 00:25:11.720
yeah

00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:13.320
yeah definitely

00:25:13.320 --> 00:25:14.200
yeah

00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:15.880
i think we're going to go back in time a

00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:17.320
little bit again for the next one aren't

00:25:17.320 --> 00:25:19.720
we yeah rebecca

00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:23.240
yeah with tracy moffatt's work oh no

00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:25.080
sorry that was my mistake i apologize

00:25:25.080 --> 00:25:28.360
rebecca we've got um we've got uh

00:25:28.360 --> 00:25:30.679
auntie matilda house by brenda elkroft

00:25:30.679 --> 00:25:33.320
yeah no that's fine also just a stunning

00:25:33.320 --> 00:25:35.880
work i actually really love this work or

00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:39.559
yeah um doctor annie matilda house um by

00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:41.559
brendell croft um

00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:42.679
yeah

00:25:42.679 --> 00:25:44.760
it's quite large too it's a quite a

00:25:44.760 --> 00:25:47.240
powerful work um in real life as well

00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.399
like when you see it um but yeah annie

00:25:49.399 --> 00:25:51.320
matilda she's a she's an ambry woman so

00:25:51.320 --> 00:25:53.399
she's from this area um you know and she

00:25:53.399 --> 00:25:55.240
dedicated her life to social justice for

00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:58.039
indigenous people and was like paramount

00:25:58.039 --> 00:26:01.159
in the tent embassy um in aboriginal

00:26:01.159 --> 00:26:03.720
like legal services i think in quimbian

00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:05.880
um and she was the first indigenous

00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:08.679
person to perform um welcome to country

00:26:08.679 --> 00:26:10.679
um you know and plus she's had so many

00:26:10.679 --> 00:26:11.880
other immense

00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:14.039
contributions to community that reach

00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:16.600
both locally but also like quite far

00:26:16.600 --> 00:26:19.640
um across australia you know um

00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:20.440
but

00:26:20.440 --> 00:26:22.039
you know and brenda croft as well is

00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:23.240
quite

00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:25.799
an amazing person too um an activist a

00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:27.399
curator an academic

00:26:27.399 --> 00:26:29.480
so many fierce contributions to

00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:31.480
community and i think what's so great

00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:34.440
about this work is that it captures um

00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:36.440
annie matilda in such a

00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:39.080
a powerful and dignified and and like

00:26:39.080 --> 00:26:41.960
quite knowledgeable you know um

00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:44.520
state and you know i you can see that

00:26:44.520 --> 00:26:46.200
there's like this relationship as well

00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:48.760
between brenda and i don't even see what

00:26:48.760 --> 00:26:50.919
that's occurring you know um

00:26:50.919 --> 00:26:53.480
and the the respect that's coming from

00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:55.720
this um you can just see so much

00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:57.320
knowledge

00:26:57.320 --> 00:27:00.279
um in the eyes i think um

00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:02.760
every time like i really love it like

00:27:02.760 --> 00:27:05.240
yeah so powerful

00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:06.680
yeah she said and she um

00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:07.880
[Music]

00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:09.320
we've both been very fortunate to meet

00:27:09.320 --> 00:27:10.919
auntie matilda and um she's a very

00:27:10.919 --> 00:27:12.919
strong woman and that comes through

00:27:12.919 --> 00:27:14.760
absolutely in this portrait it's it's a

00:27:14.760 --> 00:27:17.080
quiet strength but it's there you know

00:27:17.080 --> 00:27:18.840
there's a bedrock to auntie matilda i

00:27:18.840 --> 00:27:19.880
think

00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:21.880
it's just it's so matriarchal as well

00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:24.679
like it's just yeah yeah

00:27:24.679 --> 00:27:27.080
yeah and this um

00:27:27.080 --> 00:27:30.919
um crop brenda crawford aircraft the um

00:27:30.919 --> 00:27:33.480
yeah photographer curator activist um

00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:35.799
again local to us so again we're very

00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:37.480
fortunate to be able to

00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:39.640
touch base with another strong woman

00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:41.399
here in canberra

00:27:41.399 --> 00:27:43.960
this is part of a series this work that

00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:47.640
she was working on which all came around

00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:50.279
stemmed from an idea around um

00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:52.520
acknowledging the

00:27:52.520 --> 00:27:54.360
um legacy of

00:27:54.360 --> 00:27:55.799
barangaroo

00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:57.640
through capturing portraits of

00:27:57.640 --> 00:27:59.799
contemporary first nations women

00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:03.320
in a series that i guess pays homage to

00:28:03.320 --> 00:28:07.960
barangaroo's legacy yeah yeah

00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:10.200
all right i i need to keep an eye on the

00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:12.440
time don't you walker and gill why don't

00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:14.440
we move on to the next one which is now

00:28:14.440 --> 00:28:15.880
this is where we go back in yeah let's

00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:17.960
have a look at one of the amazing tracy

00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:19.399
moffett's works

00:28:19.399 --> 00:28:21.960
yeah um i also love this work i've

00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:23.320
picked works that i just really love it

00:28:23.320 --> 00:28:24.600
seems like

00:28:24.600 --> 00:28:26.520
that's one of one of those it's one of

00:28:26.520 --> 00:28:28.600
the benefits of being a curator i think

00:28:28.600 --> 00:28:29.880
yeah

00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:33.480
um yeah so we've got the movie star um

00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:36.360
and this of david yeah it's

00:28:36.360 --> 00:28:37.559
so

00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:39.320
so many things i think are happening in

00:28:39.320 --> 00:28:41.240
this um there's a whole bunch of things

00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:44.679
that you could unpack in it um

00:28:44.679 --> 00:28:47.240
it's so sort of tongue-in-cheek as well

00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:48.360
um

00:28:48.360 --> 00:28:49.799
because like

00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:51.880
like david is actually like a full-on

00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:53.320
movie star and he had like a career

00:28:53.320 --> 00:28:56.840
spanning um something like 40 years um

00:28:56.840 --> 00:28:58.840
which is pretty cool but then you know

00:28:58.840 --> 00:29:02.519
but also the idea of an app

00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:04.039
is not really

00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:06.600
something that comes to like popular

00:29:06.600 --> 00:29:08.120
thought i suppose

00:29:08.120 --> 00:29:09.880
um you know it's not

00:29:09.880 --> 00:29:12.840
in our media as much as um

00:29:12.840 --> 00:29:14.440
sort of those

00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:16.840
white movie styles or whatever um but

00:29:16.840 --> 00:29:18.840
also i think you know he's he's at the

00:29:18.840 --> 00:29:21.000
beach and he's got a boom box and he's

00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.440
having a beer with his bodies on um

00:29:24.440 --> 00:29:26.039
you know but also that itself falls

00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:28.120
outside of our popular conception of

00:29:28.120 --> 00:29:31.960
perception of indigenous people like

00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:33.799
people always i would

00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:36.440
think that like um have this idea of

00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:38.679
indigenous people sort of you know

00:29:38.679 --> 00:29:40.679
belonging in the desert or almost even

00:29:40.679 --> 00:29:44.120
in a time frame um you know and in that

00:29:44.120 --> 00:29:46.519
real temporal and spatial state

00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:47.480
i think

00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:48.600
it's really

00:29:48.600 --> 00:29:49.960
quite a bit

00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:50.760
uh

00:29:50.760 --> 00:29:52.519
yeah like like it's really challenging

00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:54.120
and subverting like the australian

00:29:54.120 --> 00:29:55.480
national kind of

00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:57.880
character um you know because it's

00:29:57.880 --> 00:29:59.559
referencing colonialism and

00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:02.279
dispossession um and i suppose um

00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:04.760
indigenous visibility you know like yeah

00:30:04.760 --> 00:30:07.159
it's like

00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:09.720
well i mean there are movie stars yeah

00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:11.320
yeah i mean cooper little absolutely

00:30:11.320 --> 00:30:13.559
yeah an amazing an amazing actor

00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:15.320
absolutely

00:30:15.320 --> 00:30:17.480
um

00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:21.080
cast in very uh stereotypical roles um

00:30:21.080 --> 00:30:24.120
for for an aboriginal man um but here he

00:30:24.120 --> 00:30:26.760
is in sconced in um

00:30:26.760 --> 00:30:29.960
seaside popular culture of the 80s um

00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:32.120
and so it's taking because even as a

00:30:32.120 --> 00:30:34.960
movie star he wasn't necessarily um

00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:36.279
[Music]

00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:37.159
um

00:30:37.159 --> 00:30:38.440
or he hasn't

00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:40.519
he uh he hasn't necessarily been

00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:42.840
considered to be anything outside of how

00:30:42.840 --> 00:30:44.840
we view him on the screen like you say

00:30:44.840 --> 00:30:47.080
as opposed to white movie stars where we

00:30:47.080 --> 00:30:48.360
expect to see him down the street having

00:30:48.360 --> 00:30:49.880
a cup of coffee and getting snapped by

00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:51.480
the pepper

00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:53.559
or that kind of thing yeah so

00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:55.000
um

00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:57.880
i think tracy moffat as a photographer

00:30:57.880 --> 00:30:59.080
and a

00:30:59.080 --> 00:31:01.559
and a social documentarian she's been

00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:03.880
very canny in capturing these

00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:06.120
um

00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:09.080
disconnections yeah yeah

00:31:09.080 --> 00:31:11.799
no definitely

00:31:13.399 --> 00:31:16.600
um let me see oh okay so we've looked a

00:31:16.600 --> 00:31:19.399
lot at um

00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:21.320
essentially today what we've looked at

00:31:21.320 --> 00:31:23.320
so far is very much around the western

00:31:23.320 --> 00:31:24.600
tradition of portraiture we've looked at

00:31:24.600 --> 00:31:26.440
photographic portraiture we've looked at

00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:29.799
painted portraits um

00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:32.200
the brook andrew of marcia langton is

00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:33.480
about as

00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:35.480
outside of that box as we've gotten

00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:37.880
um but why don't we move into something

00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:40.039
that is probably even more unexpected

00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:42.120
and let's look at the herman hermansburg

00:31:42.120 --> 00:31:44.120
pot

00:31:44.120 --> 00:31:46.039
yeah um

00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:48.200
so yeah the potter's portrait pot um and

00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:50.279
yeah this was um

00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:52.599
uh yeah hermansburg potters um and it's

00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:54.520
the collective

00:31:54.520 --> 00:31:55.480
sorry

00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:57.159
it's a

00:31:57.159 --> 00:31:58.520
collaboration that's the word i'm

00:31:58.520 --> 00:32:00.359
looking for yeah a collaboration with

00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:02.119
missing your women um out in

00:32:02.119 --> 00:32:03.879
hermannsburg um

00:32:03.879 --> 00:32:05.879
but yeah it's you know

00:32:05.879 --> 00:32:08.599
it's not 2d number one it's a it's a

00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:11.079
sculptural work um and it's and it's a

00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:13.879
self-portrait it's a self-identity work

00:32:13.879 --> 00:32:15.960
um and you know we were talking a lot

00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:17.639
about western fortuner and it's usually

00:32:17.639 --> 00:32:20.839
around the likeness or the um

00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:22.440
you know the physical features of a

00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:23.399
person

00:32:23.399 --> 00:32:24.359
um

00:32:24.359 --> 00:32:26.440
whereas you know in indigenous

00:32:26.440 --> 00:32:28.760
portraiture um you know it doesn't

00:32:28.760 --> 00:32:30.520
really necessarily have to follow the

00:32:30.520 --> 00:32:33.639
convention of depicting just the face

00:32:33.639 --> 00:32:37.079
or even to have that physical likeness

00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:38.520
because it's more

00:32:38.520 --> 00:32:40.200
can can sometimes be about like

00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:42.760
revealing a person's identity i guess in

00:32:42.760 --> 00:32:45.560
relation to each other in your community

00:32:45.560 --> 00:32:48.359
um to the land and then also to you know

00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:50.359
the creation ancestors and spiritual

00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:51.400
beliefs

00:32:51.400 --> 00:32:53.800
um and i think this work really sort of

00:32:53.800 --> 00:32:55.800
speaks to that because it's talking

00:32:55.800 --> 00:32:57.640
so much about um

00:32:57.640 --> 00:32:59.800
you know the the women's

00:32:59.800 --> 00:33:01.400
connection to your country and you can

00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:03.640
see that all around the plot um you know

00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:06.119
depiction of land um all the animals and

00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:08.760
birds the wildlife the

00:33:08.760 --> 00:33:10.520
flowers and rocks and everything and

00:33:10.520 --> 00:33:13.160
everything having a place and being you

00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:15.079
know um

00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:17.079
themselves is almost an extension of the

00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:17.960
lands

00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:19.240
um

00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:20.599
yeah it's a really beautiful work and

00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:22.119
then it's also talking about you know

00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:23.640
they've got the watercolor through it

00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:25.480
and they're quite well known for their

00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:27.960
work in pottery um and watercolors in

00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:29.720
hermansburg so

00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:30.680
um

00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:32.280
yeah yeah

00:33:32.280 --> 00:33:33.800
yeah and it's um

00:33:33.800 --> 00:33:35.640
it's it's

00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:37.240
i don't know if many of our audiences

00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:39.480
are familiar with the with um

00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:41.960
what this collective at hermansburg do

00:33:41.960 --> 00:33:44.359
around around this particular space but

00:33:44.359 --> 00:33:47.079
i've seen them do these amazing pots of

00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:50.280
that include um portraits of um footy

00:33:50.280 --> 00:33:52.520
players and that kind of thing as well

00:33:52.520 --> 00:33:54.359
which is fantastic but i'm so glad that

00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:55.800
when when we

00:33:55.800 --> 00:33:56.760
um

00:33:56.760 --> 00:33:58.680
requested that they might be willing to

00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:00.280
do a portrait just for us at the

00:34:00.280 --> 00:34:01.560
portrait gallery that it was the

00:34:01.560 --> 00:34:05.240
self-portrait that the elder women um

00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:08.119
have presented to us because it um

00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:11.160
it's it's a it's a

00:34:11.160 --> 00:34:13.560
it's a national recognition of the

00:34:13.560 --> 00:34:15.320
of the significance of these women and

00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:17.800
what they've contributed to our artistic

00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:19.800
our contemporary artistic history

00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.119
through telling their own stories

00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:23.800
yeah yeah

00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:25.880
definitely there's really yeah that

00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:28.280
existence in country is like so

00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:30.839
inseparable um in communities and for

00:34:30.839 --> 00:34:32.119
indigenous people and i think that

00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:33.480
really comes through in this work in

00:34:33.480 --> 00:34:35.839
this self-portrait

00:34:35.839 --> 00:34:38.200
yeah um jump in with a couple of

00:34:38.200 --> 00:34:39.640
comments um

00:34:39.640 --> 00:34:43.880
from the audience if that's okay

00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:46.359
i uh well first a comment from me

00:34:46.359 --> 00:34:49.000
rebecca you really lovely phrase just

00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:50.440
now um when you were describing the

00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:51.800
potter's pot where you said it was a

00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:53.640
self-identity work

00:34:53.640 --> 00:34:56.040
as opposed to a self well not as opposed

00:34:56.040 --> 00:34:58.680
to but as well as a self-portrait and i

00:34:58.680 --> 00:35:00.440
think that's just such a lovely phrase

00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:02.760
and maybe we could petition our um our

00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:04.839
board to change our gallery the

00:35:04.839 --> 00:35:07.240
self-identity gallery instead of

00:35:07.240 --> 00:35:09.000
the gallery identity gallery instead of

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:10.920
the portrait gallery but it just seems

00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:12.839
to be such a and it's something that we

00:35:12.839 --> 00:35:14.839
do try here at the portrait gallery is

00:35:14.839 --> 00:35:17.079
to kind of upset that traditional notion

00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:19.480
of what a portrait might be and we often

00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:21.560
do throw around that word identity which

00:35:21.560 --> 00:35:24.040
seems to be a little bit freer perhaps

00:35:24.040 --> 00:35:26.200
from some of those that baggage that

00:35:26.200 --> 00:35:29.079
perhaps the word portrait contains

00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:31.320
yeah no i do agree yeah identity because

00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:33.560
it encompasses so much more um than what

00:35:33.560 --> 00:35:35.400
we think of portraiture you know it can

00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:37.000
be cultural it can be historical it can

00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:39.640
be social identities but yeah so a

00:35:39.640 --> 00:35:41.000
self-identity

00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:42.359
um

00:35:42.359 --> 00:35:45.640
yeah it's it's a good word

00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:47.240
all right well you'll get we'll make

00:35:47.240 --> 00:35:48.680
sure that um rebecca gets credit for

00:35:48.680 --> 00:35:50.359
that yeah and that's the national

00:35:50.359 --> 00:35:52.680
identity gallery gill

00:35:52.680 --> 00:35:55.079
thanks for putting that one out there um

00:35:55.079 --> 00:35:56.520
i think we do have a few minutes left

00:35:56.520 --> 00:35:57.720
don't we gill if there are any other

00:35:57.720 --> 00:36:00.119
comments or questions um

00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:02.599
from our audience today there's been a

00:36:02.599 --> 00:36:04.839
lot of actually a lot of engagement with

00:36:04.839 --> 00:36:06.440
the the topic that you've been talking

00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:08.280
about today but ruby you mentioned

00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:10.040
earlier when we were speaking about

00:36:10.040 --> 00:36:12.359
photography um the role of that merv

00:36:12.359 --> 00:36:15.000
bishop has played as as a photographer

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:17.079
and we do have quite a few portraits by

00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:19.800
merv and bishop in the collection so she

00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:21.880
just wanted to to note his contribution

00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:23.720
and that he'd spoken recently i think at

00:36:23.720 --> 00:36:26.359
the nfsa um with hitti about hetty

00:36:26.359 --> 00:36:29.240
perkins about one of his his portraits

00:36:29.240 --> 00:36:31.640
yes there's uh there's been a beautiful

00:36:31.640 --> 00:36:33.160
uh touring exhibition out of the art

00:36:33.160 --> 00:36:34.839
gallery of new south wales that the

00:36:34.839 --> 00:36:37.079
national sound and film archive which is

00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:41.079
the nsfa um took on in canberra and i

00:36:41.079 --> 00:36:43.079
was lucky enough to get over there and

00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:44.520
have a sneaky look at that before

00:36:44.520 --> 00:36:46.280
lockdown and it was a beautiful

00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:47.880
exhibition that really didn't just

00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:49.640
celebrate mervyn's

00:36:49.640 --> 00:36:52.119
uh photographic contributions but also

00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:53.880
talked about his life and where he came

00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:55.560
from too it's really

00:36:55.560 --> 00:36:58.119
a beautiful exhibition yeah a lot of

00:36:58.119 --> 00:37:00.040
contributions there yeah we've got a big

00:37:00.040 --> 00:37:02.200
collection of these work to do we do

00:37:02.200 --> 00:37:04.520
yeah including the famous one

00:37:04.520 --> 00:37:05.320
yeah

00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:06.520
uh

00:37:06.520 --> 00:37:08.680
oh here we go which which prime minister

00:37:08.680 --> 00:37:12.440
was it bob whitman yeah

00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:13.560
yeah

00:37:13.560 --> 00:37:16.599
um we also had a um question from

00:37:16.599 --> 00:37:17.800
vladimir

00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:19.800
to rebecca wondering rebecca is there a

00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:23.560
particular person that you'd like to see

00:37:23.560 --> 00:37:25.400
have a portrait in our collection is

00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:26.760
there anything that comes to mind that

00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:28.920
we don't currently have

00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:31.079
oh there's probably lots probably a lot

00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:35.560
yeah no there's a lot of people um

00:37:35.560 --> 00:37:39.880
oh that's a really tough one um

00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:44.200
just between uh you me and the um

00:37:44.200 --> 00:37:45.880
well the audience

00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:47.720
that may or may not have finished we had

00:37:47.720 --> 00:37:50.440
to ask rebecca in the interview but um

00:37:50.440 --> 00:37:52.520
and again and i feel like i got asked

00:37:52.520 --> 00:37:54.119
the same question too it's a really

00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:55.960
tough one to answer because there are so

00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:58.040
many

00:37:58.040 --> 00:37:59.960
amazing things in australia at the

00:37:59.960 --> 00:38:00.839
moment

00:38:00.839 --> 00:38:02.839
yeah i i like the idea of um bringing

00:38:02.839 --> 00:38:04.680
maybe some younger faces in rebecca if

00:38:04.680 --> 00:38:07.160
there's anyone that sparks you in in the

00:38:07.160 --> 00:38:11.160
latest up-and-comers yeah i um

00:38:11.160 --> 00:38:12.760
maybe someone like with a music

00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:15.960
background i think would be awesome um

00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:18.280
yeah um because the contribution of

00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:21.240
music um you know within australia and

00:38:21.240 --> 00:38:23.319
culture and everything is so important

00:38:23.319 --> 00:38:25.000
um

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:26.680
yeah i look at all like people that are

00:38:26.680 --> 00:38:28.040
like

00:38:28.040 --> 00:38:30.359
reclaim language through song um and

00:38:30.359 --> 00:38:32.440
they're out there um

00:38:32.440 --> 00:38:33.880
on like sort of like national or

00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:36.359
international levels now that can speak

00:38:36.359 --> 00:38:39.319
speak language and sing it um is so

00:38:39.319 --> 00:38:41.319
important so yeah maybe someone in the

00:38:41.319 --> 00:38:43.319
music field i think would be cool to

00:38:43.319 --> 00:38:45.960
have a portraiture

00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:48.680
we've got your virtual background there

00:38:48.680 --> 00:38:51.000
with uh guerilla behind you as well

00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:53.079
rebecca yeah

00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:55.240
a classic one of people reclaiming

00:38:55.240 --> 00:38:56.839
language through song but that could be

00:38:56.839 --> 00:38:58.440
a whole exhibition in and of itself

00:38:58.440 --> 00:38:59.319
actually

00:38:59.319 --> 00:39:01.800
song makers and music makers

00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:04.119
yeah absolutely

00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:05.960
um

00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:07.720
since rebecca's come on board with us

00:39:07.720 --> 00:39:11.720
here um we've put her to work and

00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:14.760
including doing some writing um for our

00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:17.560
next edition of portrait mag um do you

00:39:17.560 --> 00:39:19.319
want to talk just a little bit about the

00:39:19.319 --> 00:39:20.359
article that you've been working on

00:39:20.359 --> 00:39:23.880
rebecca yeah so i've been um

00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:26.280
working sort of with these beautiful

00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:30.119
photographs um by jacob nash who's the

00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:32.680
creative head of bangara

00:39:32.680 --> 00:39:34.760
indigenous dance

00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:36.200
so it's been really nice to be able to

00:39:36.200 --> 00:39:37.720
talk with him and interview him about

00:39:37.720 --> 00:39:39.800
the works but it's sort of really

00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:41.319
looking at

00:39:41.319 --> 00:39:43.240
the paint up room and the use of ochre

00:39:43.240 --> 00:39:45.960
and dance um and the way that

00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:49.240
ochre um has a transformation property

00:39:49.240 --> 00:39:51.800
um into a spiritual sense for dances and

00:39:51.800 --> 00:39:53.880
and jacob's really captured these really

00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:55.319
strong images

00:39:55.319 --> 00:39:57.079
of these dances um and they're so

00:39:57.079 --> 00:39:59.960
powerful because they've become from

00:39:59.960 --> 00:40:01.960
from people into they've transformed

00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:03.000
into

00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:05.640
um this almost sacred realm of being the

00:40:05.640 --> 00:40:08.200
storyteller of being um

00:40:08.200 --> 00:40:10.680
as dancers as cultural dancers like that

00:40:10.680 --> 00:40:11.800
yeah so

00:40:11.800 --> 00:40:13.160
that's sort of the article and it's just

00:40:13.160 --> 00:40:14.599
yeah the really lovely interview with

00:40:14.599 --> 00:40:16.599
jacob um and about the importance of

00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:21.079
dance and culture um and and yeah okay

00:40:21.079 --> 00:40:22.119
yeah

00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:24.359
and i think i think i'm i'm fascinated

00:40:24.359 --> 00:40:26.280
to read it and then see see the suite of

00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:28.040
works once the magazine's published

00:40:28.040 --> 00:40:31.000
maybe i'll get a sneak peek but um

00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:32.280
i think i think this is one of the

00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:35.000
exciting things about our genre i mean

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:36.599
portraiture is

00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:38.520
at face value quite could be considered

00:40:38.520 --> 00:40:40.040
quite narrow

00:40:40.040 --> 00:40:42.760
a narrow sort of niche space within

00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:44.520
visual arts practice

00:40:44.520 --> 00:40:47.319
uh in contemporary art but having said

00:40:47.319 --> 00:40:49.720
that it's a conjunction of so many

00:40:49.720 --> 00:40:52.520
things it's a conjunction of history

00:40:52.520 --> 00:40:55.560
story narrative identity

00:40:55.560 --> 00:40:57.800
and and then and then through through

00:40:57.800 --> 00:40:59.880
the visual creative lens and so that's

00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:02.200
where we get to have these exciting and

00:41:02.200 --> 00:41:03.400
really

00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:04.520
um

00:41:04.520 --> 00:41:07.079
engrossing opportunities to explore

00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:09.720
people like like the jacob nash story

00:41:09.720 --> 00:41:11.560
that you'll be doing for the magazine

00:41:11.560 --> 00:41:13.880
yeah um there's definitely so much room

00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:16.119
to push boundaries of like what what

00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:18.119
people consider to be quite a narrow

00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:19.000
field

00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:21.079
definitely um

00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:23.000
yeah there's so many stories yeah i

00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:25.000
can't be told yeah

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:27.240
and that's why we knew that with only 45

00:41:27.240 --> 00:41:29.160
minutes today we'd barely be able to you

00:41:29.160 --> 00:41:31.640
know we could have we could sort of skim

00:41:31.640 --> 00:41:33.400
along the surface like we're skipping

00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:35.240
stones but really what we're hoping to

00:41:35.240 --> 00:41:38.119
set up for ourselves is is a platform

00:41:38.119 --> 00:41:39.880
from which we can really start to dive

00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:41.560
into some of these

00:41:41.560 --> 00:41:44.440
topics and have some really um intense

00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:46.940
and and and hopefully um

00:41:46.940 --> 00:41:48.040
[Music]

00:41:48.040 --> 00:41:50.440
uh interesting and useful conversations

00:41:50.440 --> 00:41:51.800
going forward

00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:53.160
yeah definitely

00:41:53.160 --> 00:41:54.599
absolutely

00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:56.359
we've almost had that exact comment from

00:41:56.359 --> 00:41:58.200
one of the members of our zoom audience

00:41:58.200 --> 00:42:00.280
today from tony who is asking us to

00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:02.680
please continue these once things

00:42:02.680 --> 00:42:04.839
return to some sense of normalcy because

00:42:04.839 --> 00:42:06.680
the conversations are so important to be

00:42:06.680 --> 00:42:09.880
had and it really means that people can

00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:11.560
from around australia and indeed around

00:42:11.560 --> 00:42:13.160
the world can access to these kind of

00:42:13.160 --> 00:42:14.760
conversations

00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:15.960
that we're bringing to the world through

00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:18.359
these virtual programs so thank you tony

00:42:18.359 --> 00:42:20.760
we didn't pay you for that comment but

00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:23.400
we really very much appreciate it and we

00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:25.240
are definitely planning on continuing

00:42:25.240 --> 00:42:27.240
these virtual conversations once the

00:42:27.240 --> 00:42:29.319
gallery's open in stores again on friday

00:42:29.319 --> 00:42:30.200
this is

00:42:30.200 --> 00:42:32.760
um it's now become one of our bedrocks i

00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:34.920
suppose is uh committing ourselves to

00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:37.079
bringing these virtual programs out to

00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:39.480
australia into the world so thank you so

00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:41.640
much sandra and rebecca for such an

00:42:41.640 --> 00:42:43.400
interesting conversation today we've

00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:45.319
touched on so many different areas but i

00:42:45.319 --> 00:42:48.280
really love the focus on um

00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:50.760
indigenous members of our collection who

00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:52.280
have actually really pushed boundaries

00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:54.119
in terms of the arts and it was such a

00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:55.640
lovely reflection that you had earlier

00:42:55.640 --> 00:42:57.640
on rebecca about people paving the way

00:42:57.640 --> 00:42:59.800
for yourself and your career as well and

00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:01.560
that's always that personal

00:43:01.560 --> 00:43:03.640
um connection to the people in our

00:43:03.640 --> 00:43:05.160
collection was such a lovely thing to

00:43:05.160 --> 00:43:07.720
hear you share so thank you so much

00:43:07.720 --> 00:43:08.839
thank you

00:43:08.839 --> 00:43:11.079
yeah we never do anything alone

00:43:11.079 --> 00:43:13.400
exactly yeah exactly

00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:15.640
and i i'd like to again welcome rebecca

00:43:15.640 --> 00:43:16.920
to the team we're looking forward to

00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:19.319
working with him for a long time to come

00:43:19.319 --> 00:43:21.960
yeah very happy to be here

00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:23.880
so our virtual community will hear a lot

00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:25.640
more from rebecca going forward coming

00:43:25.640 --> 00:43:28.280
forward in the next few years so thank

00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:30.119
you so much to both of you and and thank

00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:31.640
you to everybody who was joining us

00:43:31.640 --> 00:43:34.040
today on facebook and zoom we really

00:43:34.040 --> 00:43:36.280
appreciate you logging in and joining in

00:43:36.280 --> 00:43:37.960
the conversation and putting your

00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:40.280
observations and comments into the chat

00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:42.200
if you'd like to catch up on all the

00:43:42.200 --> 00:43:43.880
other things we've got coming forward

00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:47.000
when we open on friday um our exhibition

00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:49.079
that was abruptly cut short by our last

00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:50.680
lockdown living memory the national

00:43:50.680 --> 00:43:52.520
photographic portrait prize it's

00:43:52.520 --> 00:43:54.839
actually been extended until the 16th of

00:43:54.839 --> 00:43:55.960
january

00:43:55.960 --> 00:43:59.640
but as well as that we're also opening

00:43:59.640 --> 00:44:01.960
our call for entries to next year's

00:44:01.960 --> 00:44:03.560
national photographic portrait prize

00:44:03.560 --> 00:44:05.560
this coming monday so

00:44:05.560 --> 00:44:07.319
all of the photographers out there who

00:44:07.319 --> 00:44:09.319
would like to submit their work for the

00:44:09.319 --> 00:44:10.680
national photographic portrait prize

00:44:10.680 --> 00:44:12.920
next year mark that date in your diaries

00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:15.160
and start getting those entries into us

00:44:15.160 --> 00:44:16.520
but because we seem to have such a

00:44:16.520 --> 00:44:18.760
photography focus in the next month the

00:44:18.760 --> 00:44:21.240
next few thursdays in november we are

00:44:21.240 --> 00:44:23.000
going to feature

00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:24.839
some discussions with photographers and

00:44:24.839 --> 00:44:26.680
specifically photographers who spent a

00:44:26.680 --> 00:44:29.160
lot of time working overseas so we have

00:44:29.160 --> 00:44:32.200
john ciarvis next thursday um who uh

00:44:32.200 --> 00:44:34.040
separates his time between los angeles

00:44:34.040 --> 00:44:36.599
and mexico and melbourne and then we've

00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:39.240
also got coming up later in november a

00:44:39.240 --> 00:44:40.520
discussion with nikki toole the

00:44:40.520 --> 00:44:42.680
wonderful nikki tool who

00:44:42.680 --> 00:44:44.359
left australia

00:44:44.359 --> 00:44:46.760
um at the beginning before covert really

00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:48.440
hit with the idea of travelling around

00:44:48.440 --> 00:44:50.200
the world for one year and resettling

00:44:50.200 --> 00:44:52.599
back in melbourne but has been stuck in

00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:54.680
paris ever since so she's just decided

00:44:54.680 --> 00:44:56.359
to make that her home

00:44:56.359 --> 00:44:58.440
you know when the world gives you lemons

00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:00.040
what do you do so

00:45:00.040 --> 00:45:01.720
please join us for those conversations

00:45:01.720 --> 00:45:03.319
and also jump on our website to see all

00:45:03.319 --> 00:45:04.760
of the other great programs we've got

00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:06.680
coming up in the next couple of months

00:45:06.680 --> 00:45:09.160
and we hope to see you all

00:45:09.160 --> 00:45:11.720
hopefully in the gallery if you can make

00:45:11.720 --> 00:45:14.040
it to canberra otherwise please join us

00:45:14.040 --> 00:45:15.720
back online we love seeing all of your

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faces um come to us each week through

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this virtual platform thank you so much

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everybody stay safe see you soon bye