WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.170 --> 00:00:06.140 Hello, everybody. 2 00:00:06.140 --> 00:00:08.470 Welcome to an afternoon of creativity here 3 00:00:08.470 --> 00:00:10.750 at the National Portrait Gallery in Canberra. 4 00:00:10.750 --> 00:00:13.010 line:15% So lovely to see you all coming in today, 5 00:00:13.010 --> 00:00:14.670 line:15% and so grateful that you could join us 6 00:00:14.670 --> 00:00:17.090 line:15% for this fun session this afternoon. 7 00:00:17.090 --> 00:00:20.040 line:15% We've brought you so many artist workshops 8 00:00:20.040 --> 00:00:22.330 line:15% over the last few months, over the last year, in fact. 9 00:00:22.330 --> 00:00:26.840 line:15% We've had life drawing, we've had a watercolour portraiture, 10 00:00:26.840 --> 00:00:28.230 line:15% we've had charcoal drawing, 11 00:00:28.230 --> 00:00:31.510 line:15% but today we're going into the realm of 3D 12 00:00:31.510 --> 00:00:34.310 line:15% and we're actually gonna start exploring sculpture. 13 00:00:34.310 --> 00:00:36.680 line:15% So, about a year ago, 14 00:00:36.680 --> 00:00:38.700 line:15% our fantastic artist, Ellis Hutch 15 00:00:38.700 --> 00:00:41.320 I'll introduce you to her in a little while... 16 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:44.100 She was stuck in lockdown and having to try and work 17 00:00:44.100 --> 00:00:46.040 out how to teach her visual art students, 18 00:00:46.040 --> 00:00:50.000 her sculpture students, how to sculpt, how to carve, 19 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:53.530 they're in a group house, they have no tools with them, 20 00:00:53.530 --> 00:00:54.740 what to do? 21 00:00:54.740 --> 00:00:57.340 And so from that quandary, 22 00:00:57.340 --> 00:00:59.530 this particular programme that we're gonna bring 23 00:00:59.530 --> 00:01:01.420 to you today was born. 24 00:01:01.420 --> 00:01:04.810 So, before we get underway I'd like to acknowledge 25 00:01:04.810 --> 00:01:06.510 the traditional custodians of the land 26 00:01:06.510 --> 00:01:08.360 on which I'm broadcasting from today, 27 00:01:08.360 --> 00:01:10.230 the Ngambri and the Ngunawal peoples, 28 00:01:10.230 --> 00:01:12.760 and I'd like to extend my respect to their elders past, 29 00:01:12.760 --> 00:01:14.290 present and emerging. 30 00:01:14.290 --> 00:01:16.450 I'd also like to extend that same respect to any 31 00:01:16.450 --> 00:01:18.250 of the traditional custodians on the lands 32 00:01:18.250 --> 00:01:20.560 from which you come to us from today. 33 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:22.310 I'm hoping that a few of you may have attended 34 00:01:22.310 --> 00:01:24.910 our workshops before, but for those of you who haven't, 35 00:01:24.910 --> 00:01:27.280 we like to make them highly interactive. 36 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:28.440 And what do we mean by this? 37 00:01:28.440 --> 00:01:30.350 We actually love to see your faces. 38 00:01:30.350 --> 00:01:32.270 So if you could please leave your cameras 39 00:01:32.270 --> 00:01:33.810 on throughout this session, 40 00:01:33.810 --> 00:01:36.330 as we go around the room I'll show you this fantastic, 41 00:01:36.330 --> 00:01:38.810 gigantic screen, that Ellis will be able to see 42 00:01:38.810 --> 00:01:40.529 you working away on, and we'll be able to share 43 00:01:40.529 --> 00:01:44.150 our creations throughout the programme with her. 44 00:01:44.150 --> 00:01:46.340 It's always such a fantastic thing to see people 45 00:01:46.340 --> 00:01:48.100 being creative and being together 46 00:01:48.100 --> 00:01:49.803 in a community being creative. 47 00:01:50.980 --> 00:01:52.530 That said, we would like you to keep 48 00:01:52.530 --> 00:01:55.090 your microphones muted, just so that everybody can 49 00:01:55.090 --> 00:01:56.200 hear the session today, 50 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:57.720 and we don't have anyone accidentally 51 00:01:57.720 --> 00:01:59.573 hijacking our microphones. 52 00:02:00.490 --> 00:02:02.230 Now, if you'd like to communicate 53 00:02:02.230 --> 00:02:04.264 with Ellis or myself throughout the programme, 54 00:02:04.264 --> 00:02:08.230 you can do so using the chat function on Zoom or using 55 00:02:08.230 --> 00:02:10.000 the comments section, if you're coming to us 56 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:11.810 on Facebook Live. 57 00:02:11.810 --> 00:02:14.060 It looks like for all intents and purposes 58 00:02:14.060 --> 00:02:15.190 that I'm in an empty theatre, 59 00:02:15.190 --> 00:02:17.390 but there's a cast of thousands behind the scenes here. 60 00:02:17.390 --> 00:02:19.500 And I'd just like to introduce you on our way round 61 00:02:19.500 --> 00:02:21.160 to meeting Ellis today. 62 00:02:21.160 --> 00:02:23.164 First of all, we have the lovely Steph 63 00:02:23.164 --> 00:02:26.050 who is our Facebook Live expert. 64 00:02:26.050 --> 00:02:27.970 She's gonna be the person who's gonna be manning any 65 00:02:27.970 --> 00:02:30.000 of the comments there today. 66 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:32.990 Coming further around, we have Matt. 67 00:02:32.990 --> 00:02:35.510 Matt is your Zoom friend. 68 00:02:35.510 --> 00:02:36.897 Some of you may recognise Matt from all 69 00:02:36.897 --> 00:02:38.340 of our virtual programmes. 70 00:02:38.340 --> 00:02:39.960 I can see Anita waving at Matt. 71 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:42.040 He is a regular face here 72 00:02:42.040 --> 00:02:43.800 at the portrait gallery and he'll be communicating 73 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:45.720 with you on Zoom today. 74 00:02:45.720 --> 00:02:47.050 So please pass your questions 75 00:02:47.050 --> 00:02:49.750 through to Matt and he'll pass them on to us. 76 00:02:49.750 --> 00:02:51.100 Production desk. 77 00:02:51.100 --> 00:02:53.490 The wizard, Hector, is hanging out over here. 78 00:02:53.490 --> 00:02:55.395 If any of the camera angles are not to your liking, 79 00:02:55.395 --> 00:02:57.391 he's the person to blame. 80 00:02:57.391 --> 00:02:58.773 (everybody laughs) So please, 81 00:02:59.660 --> 00:03:01.662 shout out at Hector if you'd like to have any other 82 00:03:01.662 --> 00:03:04.920 camera views and we'll do our very best to accommodate. 83 00:03:04.920 --> 00:03:08.030 Now, as behind the camera... 84 00:03:08.030 --> 00:03:10.770 Rob, do you wanna come out and take a bow? 85 00:03:10.770 --> 00:03:13.760 Here's Rob, he's gonna be manning our camera for us. 86 00:03:13.760 --> 00:03:15.330 You may also recognise Rob from all 87 00:03:15.330 --> 00:03:16.660 of our virtual programmes. 88 00:03:16.660 --> 00:03:20.500 And here you all are joining us today 89 00:03:20.500 --> 00:03:22.490 from around Australia and the world. 90 00:03:22.490 --> 00:03:24.440 Oh, it's not very easy to see on our big screen 91 00:03:24.440 --> 00:03:26.800 but we can see you perfectly well. 92 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:31.640 So let's move on to the artist of the moment, Ellis Hutch. 93 00:03:31.640 --> 00:03:34.010 I'd like to hand over to Ellis now and she can kick 94 00:03:34.010 --> 00:03:35.605 it off and take us through this wonderful 95 00:03:35.605 --> 00:03:37.520 workshop this afternoon. 96 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:39.860 Ellis, over to you. Thank you so much for joining us. 97 00:03:39.860 --> 00:03:40.930 Thank you so much. 98 00:03:40.930 --> 00:03:42.760 It's really wonderful to be here today 99 00:03:42.760 --> 00:03:46.520 on Ngunawal country in Canberra. 100 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:49.660 And I would also like to acknowledge the country 101 00:03:49.660 --> 00:03:53.020 that I'm on and also 102 00:03:54.310 --> 00:03:55.800 pay my respects to elders past, 103 00:03:55.800 --> 00:03:58.900 present and those forthcoming and to extend 104 00:03:58.900 --> 00:04:00.386 that acknowledgement to all the different places 105 00:04:00.386 --> 00:04:03.640 that you are all located on today. 106 00:04:03.640 --> 00:04:08.180 It feels very surreal to be here, it's very exciting, 107 00:04:08.180 --> 00:04:11.980 and I'm very keen to hear any kind of thoughts 108 00:04:11.980 --> 00:04:13.425 or comments or questions from you through the chat 109 00:04:13.425 --> 00:04:15.620 as we go on today. 110 00:04:15.620 --> 00:04:19.560 There are a couple of things that I'll start with... 111 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:21.640 First is a little bit about me. 112 00:04:21.640 --> 00:04:26.270 So as you just heard, I teach, 113 00:04:26.270 --> 00:04:29.390 I teach sculpture currently at the ANU School of Art 114 00:04:29.390 --> 00:04:31.670 in the sculpture and special practises workshop. 115 00:04:31.670 --> 00:04:33.550 And I studied there. 116 00:04:33.550 --> 00:04:36.340 I did my first degree there in the early 1990s, 117 00:04:36.340 --> 00:04:39.582 and I studied quite a traditional curriculum when I was 118 00:04:39.582 --> 00:04:42.810 an undergraduate student, and we did do clay modelling 119 00:04:42.810 --> 00:04:45.630 of figures, and we also made relief sculptures. 120 00:04:45.630 --> 00:04:47.322 In fact, one of the, 121 00:04:47.322 --> 00:04:50.380 my most intensely disliked projects 122 00:04:50.380 --> 00:04:55.240 as an undergraduate student was a relief of a still life, 123 00:04:55.240 --> 00:04:57.770 the classic sort of bottle and ball. 124 00:04:57.770 --> 00:05:00.768 And we had to make this clay relief and then we had 125 00:05:00.768 --> 00:05:03.360 to cast it in plaster and then we had to paint it. 126 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:06.340 And so I struggled through that project, 127 00:05:06.340 --> 00:05:07.650 and like many things, 128 00:05:07.650 --> 00:05:09.395 people do at art school, I didn't understand the value 129 00:05:09.395 --> 00:05:11.314 of it until later on. 130 00:05:11.314 --> 00:05:14.590 And that doing that kind of close observation, 131 00:05:14.590 --> 00:05:18.363 relief carving, representational work is a really 132 00:05:18.363 --> 00:05:20.910 great way to hone your observational skills. 133 00:05:20.910 --> 00:05:23.535 So even if you end up working in a very abstract way 134 00:05:23.535 --> 00:05:26.100 or a very experimental way, 135 00:05:26.100 --> 00:05:28.690 having those hand-eye coordination skills 136 00:05:28.690 --> 00:05:32.040 and that sense of ability to observe is really useful. 137 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:33.670 And so over the years, 138 00:05:33.670 --> 00:05:36.130 I've dipped in and out of working with relief carving, 139 00:05:36.130 --> 00:05:38.970 and I've also worked with soap and wax. 140 00:05:38.970 --> 00:05:41.870 And in fact, I've made a work for the portrait 141 00:05:41.870 --> 00:05:45.427 gallery here in 2015 that was in an exhibition called 142 00:05:45.427 --> 00:05:47.000 "All That Fall". 143 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:51.310 And it was, I was given a really exciting brief to make 144 00:05:51.310 --> 00:05:53.157 an ephemeral work for an exhibition, 145 00:05:53.157 --> 00:05:56.740 inspired by an artist called Theodora Cowan, who was 146 00:05:56.740 --> 00:05:59.600 an early 20th century female sculptor. 147 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:02.080 And she'd been commissioned to make a memorial, 148 00:06:02.080 --> 00:06:03.740 a war memorial for the First World War. 149 00:06:03.740 --> 00:06:06.350 So I was asked to make a response to her work, 150 00:06:06.350 --> 00:06:09.044 and I made these huge wax panels because wax 151 00:06:09.044 --> 00:06:12.790 is the material that is lost in sculpture, lost wax. 152 00:06:12.790 --> 00:06:14.020 You use the wax, 153 00:06:14.020 --> 00:06:16.404 it gets melted away to make big bronze casts. 154 00:06:16.404 --> 00:06:20.370 And I carved into the surface of the wax shapes 155 00:06:20.370 --> 00:06:21.332 and forms that were inspired 156 00:06:21.332 --> 00:06:25.380 by Theo Cowen's original sculpture. 157 00:06:25.380 --> 00:06:27.940 And then I projected light through those wax forms, 158 00:06:27.940 --> 00:06:30.690 so you could see the carving on the other side. 159 00:06:30.690 --> 00:06:33.773 And that idea of working with light is very integral 160 00:06:33.773 --> 00:06:35.550 to my practise. 161 00:06:35.550 --> 00:06:38.330 So skip forward to last year, 162 00:06:38.330 --> 00:06:40.060 as you heard the story of trying to work 163 00:06:40.060 --> 00:06:42.230 out how to teach students online stuck 164 00:06:42.230 --> 00:06:45.260 in their houses without access to tools and workshops. 165 00:06:45.260 --> 00:06:49.530 And so working with carving portraiture in soap was 166 00:06:49.530 --> 00:06:52.050 the thing that I hit on as a way to work. 167 00:06:52.050 --> 00:06:54.547 And something that I discovered when I ran 168 00:06:54.547 --> 00:06:58.530 that workshop for my students was that it's so addictive. 169 00:06:58.530 --> 00:07:01.040 People just kind of got completely immersed in it. 170 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:03.197 And in fact, I've got a little image here. 171 00:07:03.197 --> 00:07:06.527 I'm just putting it on my, the table in front of me. 172 00:07:06.527 --> 00:07:08.640 I think there's a camera that can show you. 173 00:07:08.640 --> 00:07:12.200 So this is the little sample piece that I made to show 174 00:07:12.200 --> 00:07:15.561 the students how to start a relief carving. 175 00:07:15.561 --> 00:07:18.690 And it's a really interesting process to think 176 00:07:18.690 --> 00:07:22.250 about that relationship between 2D and 3D and moving 177 00:07:22.250 --> 00:07:25.922 into 3D, because this is not really quite 3D. 178 00:07:25.922 --> 00:07:29.130 It's really somewhere in between and it's a starting 179 00:07:29.130 --> 00:07:31.020 point to moving into three dimensions. 180 00:07:31.020 --> 00:07:33.970 So it's a nice follow on from the workshops many 181 00:07:33.970 --> 00:07:35.540 of you may have already participated 182 00:07:35.540 --> 00:07:38.390 in through the portrait gallery, in drawing 183 00:07:38.390 --> 00:07:42.140 and watercolour, because if I turn this on its side 184 00:07:42.140 --> 00:07:44.290 and have that camera back on there again, 185 00:07:44.290 --> 00:07:46.660 you can see that it doesn't come out very far 186 00:07:46.660 --> 00:07:48.180 from the surface of the soap. 187 00:07:48.180 --> 00:07:51.070 And then when I turn it back you've got this illusion 188 00:07:51.070 --> 00:07:52.650 that it looks... 189 00:07:52.650 --> 00:07:54.000 Can I get it straight? 190 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:57.290 It looks more three dimensional than it actually is. 191 00:07:57.290 --> 00:08:01.430 So we're playing with the same kind of illusory 192 00:08:01.430 --> 00:08:03.400 tactics that we use in drawing, 193 00:08:03.400 --> 00:08:05.627 but we do have a little bit of capacity to carve 194 00:08:05.627 --> 00:08:08.260 in and use light and shadow. 195 00:08:08.260 --> 00:08:10.490 And it's actually the shadow that really gives us 196 00:08:10.490 --> 00:08:12.320 that illusion of three-dimensionality. 197 00:08:12.320 --> 00:08:16.020 So a really great way to get started is just to get 198 00:08:16.020 --> 00:08:17.270 a bar of soap. 199 00:08:17.270 --> 00:08:19.300 And hopefully you've all got some soap there, 200 00:08:19.300 --> 00:08:22.280 and something pointy and try and have a little play 201 00:08:22.280 --> 00:08:24.120 with the kinds of marks you can make. 202 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:25.850 And as we get started on that, 203 00:08:25.850 --> 00:08:27.890 I'll pull in a blank piece of soap and have a little 204 00:08:27.890 --> 00:08:28.723 play with it. 205 00:08:28.723 --> 00:08:31.947 There are a couple of little safety hints 206 00:08:31.947 --> 00:08:34.270 that it's really good to bear in mind. 207 00:08:34.270 --> 00:08:36.720 So when we're working with a material like... 208 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:38.623 This is an unscented soap. 209 00:08:39.550 --> 00:08:41.560 If you have a soap that has a scent, 210 00:08:41.560 --> 00:08:43.890 and most soap does have some kind of a scent 211 00:08:43.890 --> 00:08:48.050 even if it's not heavily perfumed, you can, 212 00:08:48.050 --> 00:08:49.770 and you're working really close to it, 213 00:08:49.770 --> 00:08:52.530 it can be a bit fumey and it can give you a headache. 214 00:08:52.530 --> 00:08:54.330 So it's really good idea to work 215 00:08:54.330 --> 00:08:57.840 in a well ventilated space, or if you've got a fan, 216 00:08:57.840 --> 00:08:59.930 if you're not in a super well ventilated space to put 217 00:08:59.930 --> 00:09:02.101 a fan on, or just make sure that you've got access 218 00:09:02.101 --> 00:09:05.057 to fresh air and that you're not really close. 219 00:09:05.057 --> 00:09:08.840 If you're working with a scented soap it can be useful 220 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:10.640 to wear a mask if you have one. 221 00:09:10.640 --> 00:09:13.105 I'm sure everyone has masks these days. 222 00:09:13.105 --> 00:09:14.830 (everybody laughs) Masks just there. 223 00:09:14.830 --> 00:09:16.360 It's just a very common thing. 224 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:17.730 So working with that... 225 00:09:17.730 --> 00:09:19.930 The other thing, sitting down working on something 226 00:09:19.930 --> 00:09:21.958 like this, and especially if you're bent over it, 227 00:09:21.958 --> 00:09:24.610 you can get sort of sore shoulders and a stiff neck. 228 00:09:24.610 --> 00:09:26.620 So moving around, making sure 229 00:09:26.620 --> 00:09:28.550 that you're just paying attention to your body 230 00:09:28.550 --> 00:09:30.550 when you're carving is a good thing. 231 00:09:30.550 --> 00:09:32.958 And then the last thing to pay attention to also 232 00:09:32.958 --> 00:09:35.240 is working with sharps. 233 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:38.747 So I've never injured myself carving soap, 234 00:09:38.747 --> 00:09:42.710 and I've injured myself doing pretty much everything else. 235 00:09:42.710 --> 00:09:44.740 I'm quite clumsy. 236 00:09:44.740 --> 00:09:49.480 So I would say that it's generally a fairly safe exercise, 237 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:50.902 but you are working with something pointy 238 00:09:50.902 --> 00:09:52.709 and sometimes you can be working. 239 00:09:52.709 --> 00:09:54.630 It can be a little bit slippery. 240 00:09:54.630 --> 00:09:57.880 So particularly if you're holding the soap in your hand, 241 00:09:57.880 --> 00:10:00.240 just be conscious of how you're using those points 242 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:02.195 so you don't end up stabbing yourself in the hand 243 00:10:02.195 --> 00:10:06.800 or that your carving away rather than towards yourself. 244 00:10:06.800 --> 00:10:08.600 But generally, I think, 245 00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:10.481 if you're working slowly and thoughtfully, 246 00:10:10.481 --> 00:10:12.535 you should be pretty right. 247 00:10:12.535 --> 00:10:14.700 The tools that I've got here... 248 00:10:14.700 --> 00:10:16.760 This is just a ceramics, 249 00:10:16.760 --> 00:10:20.230 I'll just put that there, ceramics tool. 250 00:10:20.230 --> 00:10:22.182 And I also use a pair of scissors. 251 00:10:22.182 --> 00:10:25.710 They're the two things I use most out of anything else. 252 00:10:25.710 --> 00:10:29.533 I also use things like a skewer, pointy skewer. 253 00:10:30.930 --> 00:10:34.840 Something like this. I'm looking at the camera in reverse. 254 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:37.382 So I'm trying to make sure I don't put things 255 00:10:37.382 --> 00:10:39.063 in strange places. 256 00:10:40.250 --> 00:10:43.660 Pallet knives, scrapers, anything that has a sharp edge, 257 00:10:43.660 --> 00:10:46.622 these are really great for making a kind of flat 258 00:10:46.622 --> 00:10:50.670 surface if you've got a really curved piece of soap, 259 00:10:50.670 --> 00:10:52.650 you can carve away like that. 260 00:10:52.650 --> 00:10:54.680 A pair of scissors is really good for that too. 261 00:10:54.680 --> 00:10:59.080 So you can just scrape the surface back to make it flatter, 262 00:10:59.080 --> 00:11:00.707 if you want a flat surface, 263 00:11:00.707 --> 00:11:04.563 and another really nice thing you can do with any kind 264 00:11:04.563 --> 00:11:05.750 of point at all, 265 00:11:05.750 --> 00:11:09.300 particularly good with these ceramic tools, 266 00:11:09.300 --> 00:11:14.300 just brush that off, is create what's called an undercut. 267 00:11:14.520 --> 00:11:19.360 And so if I'm going to scrape away a bit of soap 268 00:11:21.130 --> 00:11:22.680 and make a shape, say, 269 00:11:22.680 --> 00:11:26.420 I'm making a kind of a cube type shape, 270 00:11:26.420 --> 00:11:27.530 I'm just going scrape, scrape, 271 00:11:27.530 --> 00:11:32.430 scrape with the side of this pointy bit and I'll show 272 00:11:32.430 --> 00:11:34.970 it to you what happens in a second... 273 00:11:38.540 --> 00:11:39.570 Scraping in... 274 00:11:39.570 --> 00:11:44.400 I'm cutting into the soap in a way 275 00:11:44.400 --> 00:11:46.330 that it's very 276 00:11:46.330 --> 00:11:51.160 rough here, but I'm just cutting underneath. 277 00:11:51.160 --> 00:11:52.690 And what happens then 278 00:11:55.100 --> 00:11:56.870 is that there's a shadow there, 279 00:11:56.870 --> 00:12:00.800 which makes the carved bit look like it's sitting out. 280 00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:03.790 Very, very rough, but if you've got some soap 281 00:12:03.790 --> 00:12:05.430 there and you've got some pointy things, 282 00:12:05.430 --> 00:12:07.904 just try a little bit of scraping, 283 00:12:07.904 --> 00:12:11.146 a little bit of drawing lines, some, 284 00:12:11.146 --> 00:12:15.046 you can kind of dig in and create a really nice 285 00:12:15.046 --> 00:12:18.960 convex kind of shape, 286 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:20.480 especially if you've got a curve tool. 287 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:22.900 But even if you don't have something with a curved 288 00:12:22.900 --> 00:12:25.450 blade on it, you can do that kind of digging 289 00:12:25.450 --> 00:12:28.939 in and going around to create this round sort of shape. 290 00:12:28.939 --> 00:12:32.480 Something else you might notice as I'm doing this here 291 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:35.904 on this surface, is that I'm not always holding 292 00:12:35.904 --> 00:12:39.090 my point like a pencil. 293 00:12:39.090 --> 00:12:40.240 So a lot of people, 294 00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:42.070 if they've never carved anything will pick a tool 295 00:12:42.070 --> 00:12:45.050 like this up and start drawing as if they're drawing 296 00:12:45.050 --> 00:12:46.740 with a pencil. 297 00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:50.458 It's far more useful, easy, 298 00:12:50.458 --> 00:12:54.880 efficient to hold the tool with your hand flat like 299 00:12:54.880 --> 00:12:58.283 this or to hold it like this. 300 00:12:59.260 --> 00:13:02.960 And to change that sort of hold around depending 301 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:03.793 on what you're doing, 302 00:13:03.793 --> 00:13:07.920 because I can scrape along the surface much 303 00:13:07.920 --> 00:13:11.100 more efficiently if I'm holding this tool this way 304 00:13:11.100 --> 00:13:15.230 or I can kind of go in close if I hold it like that. 305 00:13:15.230 --> 00:13:17.930 So I'm making a very big pile of messy soap 306 00:13:17.930 --> 00:13:20.280 and not achieving very much right now, 307 00:13:20.280 --> 00:13:21.510 other than just showing you a couple 308 00:13:21.510 --> 00:13:22.860 of little technical things. 309 00:13:24.160 --> 00:13:28.280 So that is a bit of a rundown about using tools 310 00:13:28.280 --> 00:13:32.570 and making a couple of different kinds of cuts 311 00:13:32.570 --> 00:13:33.403 into the surface. 312 00:13:33.403 --> 00:13:36.930 Something else that's really good to be aware of, 313 00:13:36.930 --> 00:13:40.480 and when I put that piece on its side before, 314 00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:43.350 I'll just show you, this is another, 315 00:13:43.350 --> 00:13:46.620 this is a geometrical shape that I made earlier 316 00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:48.183 this morning in a workshop, 317 00:13:50.620 --> 00:13:55.070 is that when people first start playing with carving, 318 00:13:55.070 --> 00:13:56.220 they'll often dig very, 319 00:13:56.220 --> 00:13:58.810 very deep into the surface and sort of carve down 320 00:13:58.810 --> 00:13:59.820 into the surface. 321 00:13:59.820 --> 00:14:02.610 You don't actually need to go very deep and don't need 322 00:14:02.610 --> 00:14:04.130 to use very much force. 323 00:14:04.130 --> 00:14:06.460 Because again, when I turn that on its side you can 324 00:14:06.460 --> 00:14:10.617 see that it doesn't come out very far. 325 00:14:10.617 --> 00:14:15.617 So I can be very gentle with my scraping, very light, 326 00:14:16.260 --> 00:14:18.680 and just create this tiny little bit of, 327 00:14:18.680 --> 00:14:20.455 these tiny little bits of flake. 328 00:14:20.455 --> 00:14:24.550 I don't need to dig hard or very deep into the surface, 329 00:14:24.550 --> 00:14:27.340 and that I'm letting the light do all the work 330 00:14:27.340 --> 00:14:29.330 of creating the illusion that I'm making 331 00:14:29.330 --> 00:14:31.620 a semi three-dimensional form. 332 00:14:31.620 --> 00:14:34.920 So I'll start making, I'll grab a fresh piece of soap, 333 00:14:34.920 --> 00:14:37.370 and I'm gonna start making a shape, 334 00:14:37.370 --> 00:14:38.590 just a geometrical shape. 335 00:14:38.590 --> 00:14:41.110 And I would suggest that you start with something like 336 00:14:41.110 --> 00:14:44.120 a cube or a pyramid, 337 00:14:44.120 --> 00:14:47.350 and just carve a three-dimensional or not 338 00:14:47.350 --> 00:14:51.500 quite three-dimensional form to see how you go with that. 339 00:14:51.500 --> 00:14:54.070 And then we could move on to looking at some portraits 340 00:14:54.070 --> 00:14:56.690 and how we start to work with a face. 341 00:14:56.690 --> 00:15:00.900 And I'll just give you one quick tip with this bit 342 00:15:00.900 --> 00:15:03.150 of soap that I've got sitting here on the desk. 343 00:15:03.150 --> 00:15:06.400 What I would do to start with is I will just draw 344 00:15:06.400 --> 00:15:08.350 an outline of the shape that I wanna make. 345 00:15:08.350 --> 00:15:12.220 So I think I'm gonna make a kind of sphere or maybe 346 00:15:12.220 --> 00:15:15.580 a sort of half a sphere kind of semicircle. 347 00:15:15.580 --> 00:15:20.150 So I'll just really lightly 348 00:15:20.150 --> 00:15:22.850 create the outline for that. 349 00:15:22.850 --> 00:15:25.260 So I've got a circular shape there, 350 00:15:25.260 --> 00:15:27.690 and then the next thing I'm gonna do is scrape 351 00:15:27.690 --> 00:15:31.540 away around it so that it becomes the form that sticks 352 00:15:31.540 --> 00:15:33.520 out from the surface. 353 00:15:33.520 --> 00:15:36.128 So I'm starting by taking a bit of the outside 354 00:15:36.128 --> 00:15:39.547 away and then I'll come back and work on that central 355 00:15:39.547 --> 00:15:44.547 form because that will be sitting proud from the surface. 356 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:49.223 And I'm just gonna slowly dig away at it. 357 00:15:51.390 --> 00:15:52.320 And as you can see, 358 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:55.960 I'm not sort of digging in or trying to scoop out, 359 00:15:55.960 --> 00:16:00.840 I'm just scraping over the surface to create this shape 360 00:16:04.350 --> 00:16:06.610 Ellis, because it's such delicate work 361 00:16:06.610 --> 00:16:09.040 and you don't need to use much force or dig much 362 00:16:09.040 --> 00:16:11.957 into the soap, do you need to use particularly 363 00:16:11.957 --> 00:16:14.540 sharp implements, or could this be something 364 00:16:14.540 --> 00:16:15.430 that parents could kind 365 00:16:15.430 --> 00:16:18.200 of experiment with their kids, with, maybe, 366 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:19.800 not the good scissors? 367 00:16:19.800 --> 00:16:21.970 I think that that's a really great question 368 00:16:21.970 --> 00:16:23.690 and absolutely you don't need to use 369 00:16:23.690 --> 00:16:25.243 super sharp implements. 370 00:16:27.400 --> 00:16:29.380 I've got this kind of barbecue skewer here, 371 00:16:29.380 --> 00:16:33.230 which has a quite a sort of flat edge on it. 372 00:16:33.230 --> 00:16:35.240 And so I can run my fingers along it. 373 00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:37.400 I'm not gonna cut myself on it at all. 374 00:16:37.400 --> 00:16:38.560 And I can still, 375 00:16:38.560 --> 00:16:41.760 it's not as efficient as using a sharp blade, 376 00:16:41.760 --> 00:16:45.570 but I can certainly create the same kinds of results with it 377 00:16:49.530 --> 00:16:50.900 and work with that form. 378 00:16:50.900 --> 00:16:53.640 And so this is quite a blunt instrument, effectively, 379 00:16:53.640 --> 00:16:55.040 to be working with, 380 00:16:55.040 --> 00:16:59.680 and I can't get the same exact kind of sharpness of lines, 381 00:16:59.680 --> 00:17:04.680 but yeah, I could give this to someone who, 382 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:08.570 a child or someone who doesn't feel comfortable 383 00:17:08.570 --> 00:17:11.960 working with really sharp implements. 384 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:15.300 And you can still get a really effective result with that, 385 00:17:15.300 --> 00:17:17.120 because the soap itself is not super hard. 386 00:17:17.120 --> 00:17:19.940 Different soaps have different qualities, too. 387 00:17:19.940 --> 00:17:21.330 Some of them are much more waxy. 388 00:17:21.330 --> 00:17:23.230 Some of them are more brittle. 389 00:17:23.230 --> 00:17:25.830 So you might find that some of them are much easier 390 00:17:25.830 --> 00:17:27.043 to work with than others. 391 00:17:27.043 --> 00:17:28.870 And if they've been sitting around 392 00:17:28.870 --> 00:17:30.990 for a while and they've kind of dried out they become 393 00:17:30.990 --> 00:17:32.340 a lot more powdery. 394 00:17:32.340 --> 00:17:36.810 So there, that's something that you can bear in mind 395 00:17:38.850 --> 00:17:40.820 when you're working with different kinds of soap. 396 00:17:40.820 --> 00:17:43.820 And if a soap has Sorbolene in it or if it's got 397 00:17:43.820 --> 00:17:45.764 glycerin in it, or if it's, 398 00:17:45.764 --> 00:17:48.130 depending on what the materials are that it's been 399 00:17:48.130 --> 00:17:51.550 made out of, it will have different qualities. 400 00:17:51.550 --> 00:17:53.937 And also things like the atmosphere. 401 00:17:53.937 --> 00:17:57.728 If it's very humid, if it's very hot or cold, 402 00:17:57.728 --> 00:18:00.520 things will be more sticky or more brittle, 403 00:18:00.520 --> 00:18:04.280 which is very similar if anyone has worked with wax, 404 00:18:04.280 --> 00:18:05.540 you find that working with things like 405 00:18:05.540 --> 00:18:07.985 a microcrystalline wax which is what that work 406 00:18:07.985 --> 00:18:11.040 that I made for the portrait gallery is made out of, 407 00:18:11.040 --> 00:18:15.550 that if the temperature in my studio got very hot, 408 00:18:15.550 --> 00:18:18.753 the wax would be really sticky and it was much, 409 00:18:19.656 --> 00:18:20.710 then it would stick to itself when I was trying 410 00:18:20.710 --> 00:18:23.200 to carve it, and that's very similar with soap. 411 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:24.940 And in fact, one of the things you can do, 412 00:18:24.940 --> 00:18:27.260 if you've got flake sticking to soap is just use 413 00:18:27.260 --> 00:18:29.610 a paintbrush and brush it off with a paint brush 414 00:18:29.610 --> 00:18:32.163 as you're working just to kind of make that, 415 00:18:34.780 --> 00:18:36.480 make it easier to see what you're doing 416 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.930 as the different bits stick to it. 417 00:18:38.930 --> 00:18:39.950 So I'm just kind of carving 418 00:18:39.950 --> 00:18:42.653 away at this circular form here. 419 00:18:47.469 --> 00:18:51.840 And yeah, if people wanna, if you're getting started, 420 00:18:51.840 --> 00:18:54.020 if anyone's carving, it will be really great to see 421 00:18:54.020 --> 00:18:55.100 what people are working on. 422 00:18:55.100 --> 00:18:57.823 What kinds of shapes you've decided to work with. 423 00:19:01.270 --> 00:19:03.240 I can see lots of- Anyone holding things up? 424 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:04.960 Oh, we've got some sunlight soap, 425 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:06.260 one of my favourite things. 426 00:19:07.580 --> 00:19:09.480 Oh, nice round soap there in the middle too. 427 00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:11.393 Oh, yeah. Great. 428 00:19:17.010 --> 00:19:17.880 So wonderful to see 429 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:19.770 so many faces busily creating. 430 00:19:19.770 --> 00:19:20.900 It is. Yeah. 431 00:19:20.900 --> 00:19:24.430 It's, there's a very particular look people get 432 00:19:24.430 --> 00:19:26.400 on their faces when they're concentrating 433 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:28.040 that's just delightful, isn't it, 434 00:19:28.040 --> 00:19:31.800 to see that look of intensity that people have... 435 00:19:32.740 --> 00:19:34.380 It's quite meditative, isn't it, really? 436 00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:36.790 Like, you sort of lose yourself in there. 437 00:19:36.790 --> 00:19:38.320 Yeah. Very much so. 438 00:19:38.320 --> 00:19:43.210 And I made a couple of test pieces before running 439 00:19:43.210 --> 00:19:46.337 this workshop and there was one night where I sat down 440 00:19:46.337 --> 00:19:50.010 at about 8:00 PM and I didn't look up to check 441 00:19:50.010 --> 00:19:51.760 the time until it was about midnight. 442 00:19:51.760 --> 00:19:53.533 And I was really surprised at the hours, 443 00:19:53.533 --> 00:19:55.380 they just kind of disappeared. 444 00:19:55.380 --> 00:20:00.250 And I'd just been so immersed in what I was doing, 445 00:20:00.250 --> 00:20:04.130 which is a thing that I find, I don't know if it's, 446 00:20:04.130 --> 00:20:06.280 I'm guessing it's similar for a lot of artists 447 00:20:06.280 --> 00:20:10.390 that when I find a process that I really enjoy 448 00:20:10.390 --> 00:20:12.710 that it's actually quite dangerous for me to work 449 00:20:12.710 --> 00:20:16.090 at nighttime because I do have a day job and I get 450 00:20:16.090 --> 00:20:19.370 so immersed that I'll happily sit up all night working 451 00:20:19.370 --> 00:20:22.700 and then I will have a very regretful time the next 452 00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:24.540 day trying to keep up with everything. 453 00:20:24.540 --> 00:20:26.880 So art and coffee are definitely 454 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:28.400 things go hand in hand. 455 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:29.450 (laughs) Very much so. 456 00:20:29.450 --> 00:20:31.550 We do have a question from Margaret who was wondering 457 00:20:31.550 --> 00:20:34.450 if you do anything with the shavings leftover from the... 458 00:20:34.450 --> 00:20:38.830 Oh, that's a great question. I do keep the shavings. 459 00:20:38.830 --> 00:20:40.540 I don't do a huge amount of soap carving, 460 00:20:40.540 --> 00:20:42.458 but when I do I keep the shavings and I also try 461 00:20:42.458 --> 00:20:45.430 and generally work with pure soap. 462 00:20:45.430 --> 00:20:50.302 And that means that I can use the soap to make wool wash. 463 00:20:50.302 --> 00:20:54.500 If you make a kind of a gel or a slurry out of pure 464 00:20:54.500 --> 00:20:56.020 soap you can pop it in your washing machine 465 00:20:56.020 --> 00:20:58.323 and you can wash all your woollens with it. 466 00:20:59.426 --> 00:21:01.820 I think people who do felting, 467 00:21:01.820 --> 00:21:03.610 one of the people in the workshop I was running 468 00:21:03.610 --> 00:21:06.490 this morning said that felters use pure soap 469 00:21:06.490 --> 00:21:09.200 when they're making, turning things into felt. 470 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:13.010 So if you don't do felting yourself but crafty people, 471 00:21:13.010 --> 00:21:16.400 you can save the soap flakes and give it to them, 472 00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:17.610 or you can use it... 473 00:21:17.610 --> 00:21:21.600 You can even use it to wash your dishes, if you're, 474 00:21:21.600 --> 00:21:26.590 if you don't use the dishwasher, which I live by myself, 475 00:21:26.590 --> 00:21:29.870 so I often don't feel like I should be using 476 00:21:29.870 --> 00:21:32.118 my dishwasher when I don't fill it up very often. 477 00:21:32.118 --> 00:21:36.380 And if you are, I think you can still get them. 478 00:21:36.380 --> 00:21:38.920 You can get these little holders that you put bars 479 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:41.500 of soap in, and you can sort of run the water 480 00:21:41.500 --> 00:21:44.630 over them and use that to wash your dishes. 481 00:21:44.630 --> 00:21:48.280 But you can also kind of use soap flakes and just put 482 00:21:48.280 --> 00:21:50.290 a little bit of that in your dish washing water 483 00:21:50.290 --> 00:21:51.960 and wash your dishes with it. 484 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:53.093 So it's still functional. 485 00:21:53.093 --> 00:21:58.093 I haven't tried to use it to wash like in the bath 486 00:21:58.800 --> 00:22:02.230 or the shower, but you could potentially do that too. 487 00:22:02.230 --> 00:22:04.920 So I've just made this circular form here 488 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:06.390 or oval shaped form. 489 00:22:06.390 --> 00:22:09.420 It's pretty rough. I'm not being very careful today. 490 00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:10.870 I'm interrupting you and distracting you. 491 00:22:10.870 --> 00:22:13.854 And what I'm doing is I've done an undercut 492 00:22:13.854 --> 00:22:16.523 and I'll stop in a sec so you can see, 493 00:22:17.510 --> 00:22:19.660 to give it that sense of it's sitting out on the surface, 494 00:22:19.660 --> 00:22:20.650 but then I've just, 495 00:22:20.650 --> 00:22:23.580 I'm just sort of scraping along the edges, 496 00:22:23.580 --> 00:22:25.700 so that adds to that illusion 497 00:22:25.700 --> 00:22:26.866 that it's three-dimensional... 498 00:22:26.866 --> 00:22:29.210 And I'll just put that down. 499 00:22:29.210 --> 00:22:31.960 So it's cut under here, 500 00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:34.788 but it's also along the edge that I've scraped. 501 00:22:34.788 --> 00:22:36.800 So it's almost like a burnishing, 502 00:22:36.800 --> 00:22:38.330 it's just taking the edge off so it doesn't have 503 00:22:38.330 --> 00:22:39.921 a square edge on it. 504 00:22:39.921 --> 00:22:44.060 And then I'm gonna turn this into a bowl shape 505 00:22:46.550 --> 00:22:48.903 just by carving into it. 506 00:22:58.650 --> 00:23:03.650 And I'm gonna have to pick up my piece of paper 507 00:23:03.840 --> 00:23:06.640 and tip the soap flakes off in a second, but I'll do 508 00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:07.840 this a little bit first. 509 00:23:16.250 --> 00:23:19.330 So this is a really nice thing that you can play with, 510 00:23:19.330 --> 00:23:21.920 and people who've done drawing classes, 511 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:23.820 observational drawing classes will have spent a lot 512 00:23:23.820 --> 00:23:25.912 of time drawing vessels, 513 00:23:25.912 --> 00:23:29.000 if you're doing traditional drawing classes. 514 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:30.160 So what I've done here 515 00:23:32.130 --> 00:23:36.060 just very simply is I've 516 00:23:41.570 --> 00:23:43.720 carved in at an angle. 517 00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:48.720 And so you can see that there's a shadow on the inside 518 00:23:48.979 --> 00:23:52.680 and the lip picks up a bit of light on the outside. 519 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:54.816 So it gives it that sense that there's a hole 520 00:23:54.816 --> 00:23:56.380 or an opening. 521 00:23:56.380 --> 00:23:59.923 And if I keep going with that and just take that further, 522 00:24:10.450 --> 00:24:12.660 I can just give it more of that sense of being 523 00:24:12.660 --> 00:24:13.783 a vessel form. 524 00:24:21.270 --> 00:24:24.100 And if I'm fairly careful with that edge... 525 00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:31.090 No, just take this whole thing back. 526 00:24:31.090 --> 00:24:32.870 One of the good things about working with soap 527 00:24:32.870 --> 00:24:35.100 is if it's not quite right, 528 00:24:35.100 --> 00:24:37.390 you can just scrape it off and start again. 529 00:24:37.390 --> 00:24:39.030 And that's the thing that's hard to do 530 00:24:39.030 --> 00:24:39.985 when you first start. 531 00:24:39.985 --> 00:24:43.140 And I think a lot of people find that also with drawing, 532 00:24:43.140 --> 00:24:45.340 it's very hard just to rub it out or scrape it off 533 00:24:45.340 --> 00:24:47.616 and start again, because you get really attached 534 00:24:47.616 --> 00:24:50.330 to what you're doing and a little bit precious about it. 535 00:24:50.330 --> 00:24:52.760 But the good thing about soap is it's super cheap. 536 00:24:52.760 --> 00:24:56.130 And you can just say, nah, I'm not really happy with this. 537 00:24:56.130 --> 00:25:00.110 And usually when I'm starting something new, 538 00:25:00.110 --> 00:25:03.540 it will take me a few goes to work out the composition 539 00:25:03.540 --> 00:25:05.510 or how to get it exactly right. 540 00:25:05.510 --> 00:25:10.510 So with this vessel form I've just scraped off... 541 00:25:11.800 --> 00:25:14.050 Sorry, I should keep that in this spot here, 542 00:25:14.050 --> 00:25:15.720 because it's closer to the camera. 543 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:17.800 I've scraped the top section back 544 00:25:24.643 --> 00:25:26.980 and now I've got that little bowl type shape 545 00:25:26.980 --> 00:25:29.731 that, there it is. 546 00:25:29.731 --> 00:25:32.940 Because I wear reading glasses, 547 00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:34.360 of course I can see what I'm doing here, 548 00:25:34.360 --> 00:25:36.010 as soon as I look up at the screen, I can't see anything. 549 00:25:36.010 --> 00:25:38.000 So I've gotta do that thing where I look over my glasses, 550 00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.280 like a librarian, 551 00:25:40.280 --> 00:25:44.890 and I can come back into it like this. 552 00:25:44.890 --> 00:25:49.380 So that's a little, very quick little bowl-like form. 553 00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:51.871 And that uses some of those tactics of an undercut 554 00:25:51.871 --> 00:25:55.360 and also just coming around the edges to create 555 00:25:55.360 --> 00:25:58.570 that sort of sense of a 3D, 556 00:25:58.570 --> 00:26:01.540 and something that I can 557 00:26:01.540 --> 00:26:04.350 show you talking about redoing things... 558 00:26:04.350 --> 00:26:07.070 So this is one of the portraits I did last week 559 00:26:07.070 --> 00:26:09.460 as a sample piece. 560 00:26:09.460 --> 00:26:11.193 And this is our friend 561 00:26:11.193 --> 00:26:14.320 Phillip Parker King, who we'll look at again later on. 562 00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:17.873 So this version of Mr. King is, 563 00:26:19.470 --> 00:26:22.390 it's not entirely like the original but it's got, 564 00:26:22.390 --> 00:26:24.260 it's sort of shares some of the features. 565 00:26:24.260 --> 00:26:27.150 And I think I started this one three times. 566 00:26:27.150 --> 00:26:28.840 So I started it. It wasn't quite right. 567 00:26:28.840 --> 00:26:30.773 I scraped it all off. I started it again. 568 00:26:30.773 --> 00:26:33.720 I got a second piece of soap and then I had another 569 00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:34.553 go at it. 570 00:26:34.553 --> 00:26:36.736 So, working backwards and forwards, 571 00:26:36.736 --> 00:26:39.196 if you're trying to create something representational. 572 00:26:39.196 --> 00:26:42.040 And those of you that have done life drawing would be 573 00:26:42.040 --> 00:26:43.850 very familiar with this that you often need to do 574 00:26:43.850 --> 00:26:45.020 a few quick sketches. 575 00:26:45.020 --> 00:26:48.720 You need to try out a few little test drawings, 576 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:51.970 in life drawing you might do lots and lots of 30 second 577 00:26:51.970 --> 00:26:54.510 or one minute drawings before you go into a longer thing. 578 00:26:54.510 --> 00:26:57.380 So it's the same with the soap carving. 579 00:26:57.380 --> 00:26:59.317 It's something you can work fairly quickly with. 580 00:26:59.317 --> 00:27:02.700 And you can try the, get started, 581 00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:05.100 try and approach, work out if it works or not, 582 00:27:05.100 --> 00:27:07.306 you can scrape it off completely and start again 583 00:27:07.306 --> 00:27:10.100 or you can grab another piece of soap and you can have 584 00:27:10.100 --> 00:27:12.040 a few little versions of things. 585 00:27:12.040 --> 00:27:16.210 And you can also try and look at just individual features, 586 00:27:16.210 --> 00:27:18.440 which will be the next thing that we have a look 587 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:23.033 at here is picking at an eye or a nose, for example, 588 00:27:23.033 --> 00:27:25.370 and see if they'll both be on 589 00:27:25.370 --> 00:27:27.758 that little spot in the camera, 590 00:27:27.758 --> 00:27:30.960 and honing in on a feature and seeing 591 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.990 how you could potentially create that 3D illusion 592 00:27:33.990 --> 00:27:38.130 or how you could make it look like an actual person's eye, 593 00:27:38.130 --> 00:27:40.640 or in the case of today's exercise, 594 00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:42.770 we're working from images, 595 00:27:42.770 --> 00:27:45.690 and particularly working from profile images. 596 00:27:45.690 --> 00:27:49.640 So this morning I was running a workshop here 597 00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:52.960 in the gallery with a few attendees. 598 00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:55.930 And one of the people in the workshop 599 00:27:55.930 --> 00:27:57.160 is actually a jeweller. 600 00:27:57.160 --> 00:27:57.993 And she was saying, 601 00:27:57.993 --> 00:28:00.980 she's got lots of books sort of mediaeval jewellery 602 00:28:00.980 --> 00:28:03.910 and ancient jewellery and lots and lots of images of cameos. 603 00:28:03.910 --> 00:28:06.240 And she has one particular book that has all 604 00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:08.650 of these relief carvings of the portraits. 605 00:28:08.650 --> 00:28:11.620 And she said, there's about 1,000 images in the book 606 00:28:11.620 --> 00:28:13.493 and there are two of them that are straight 607 00:28:13.493 --> 00:28:15.590 on facing forwards. 608 00:28:15.590 --> 00:28:17.890 That they're mostly all in profile, 609 00:28:17.890 --> 00:28:20.090 because then you can get that shape of the, you know, 610 00:28:20.090 --> 00:28:23.170 the brow and the nose and you can build up from there. 611 00:28:23.170 --> 00:28:27.293 And if we go back to Mr. King here, 612 00:28:28.132 --> 00:28:30.232 let me put my glasses on so I can see him, 613 00:28:31.740 --> 00:28:35.120 that profile is really distinctive and it's a really 614 00:28:35.120 --> 00:28:35.953 fun one to work with. 615 00:28:35.953 --> 00:28:39.510 He's got such an excellent nose. 616 00:28:39.510 --> 00:28:43.200 And so that makes it kind of quite easy to copy. 617 00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:47.760 And I'll ask our wonderful tech folks here to bring up 618 00:28:47.760 --> 00:28:48.593 on the screen. 619 00:28:48.593 --> 00:28:51.800 I've got a couple of images of Lady Jane Franklin 620 00:28:51.800 --> 00:28:55.033 and Mrs. Grey, 621 00:28:56.580 --> 00:28:58.780 I think, coming up, 622 00:28:58.780 --> 00:29:02.470 so you can see Mrs. Grey there. She's not very 3D. 623 00:29:02.470 --> 00:29:04.607 She's quite, she's a quite a subtle carving. 624 00:29:04.607 --> 00:29:08.660 And I particularly love in that image her, 625 00:29:08.660 --> 00:29:12.610 the way her hand is coming out of her garments there. 626 00:29:12.610 --> 00:29:14.710 And you've got this real sense of the fabric going 627 00:29:14.710 --> 00:29:17.260 over the hand and the hand sort of coming forwards. 628 00:29:18.510 --> 00:29:22.670 It's a really lovely, subtle work by Teresa Walker. 629 00:29:22.670 --> 00:29:25.080 And if we go and move on to look 630 00:29:25.080 --> 00:29:28.450 at Jane Franklin, she's a much more 631 00:29:28.450 --> 00:29:31.850 three-dimensional image there. 632 00:29:31.850 --> 00:29:33.680 So she's a carved marble, 633 00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:35.370 and you can see that she's really coming 634 00:29:35.370 --> 00:29:37.070 out from that background. 635 00:29:37.070 --> 00:29:39.400 And so that's a bit of an evidence 636 00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:41.700 of that difference between a very what we'd call 637 00:29:41.700 --> 00:29:46.700 low relief, which is lady Grey, and that more kind 638 00:29:47.013 --> 00:29:50.080 of higher relief and work kind of coming 639 00:29:50.080 --> 00:29:53.200 into three dimensions of Jane Franklin. 640 00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:55.670 But I think Jane Franklin is a really lovely one 641 00:29:55.670 --> 00:30:00.670 to look at for the next exercise, which is to pick nose, 642 00:30:00.930 --> 00:30:04.370 eyes or maybe lips, and just work on one feature. 643 00:30:04.370 --> 00:30:06.380 And you might have an image at home, 644 00:30:06.380 --> 00:30:08.990 something lying around, where that you can look at, 645 00:30:08.990 --> 00:30:10.810 or we'll certainly, we'll put some closeups up 646 00:30:10.810 --> 00:30:12.290 on the screen here and you could work 647 00:30:12.290 --> 00:30:14.010 from the screen as well. 648 00:30:14.010 --> 00:30:17.310 I think that giving yourself that exercise of trying 649 00:30:17.310 --> 00:30:19.780 to work out how to just work on that one feature 650 00:30:19.780 --> 00:30:24.603 is a really nice practise observational opportunity. 651 00:30:25.590 --> 00:30:30.590 And I've got a very not accurate one here 652 00:30:31.860 --> 00:30:34.779 that was inspired by lady Franklin, that I've put 653 00:30:34.779 --> 00:30:35.904 on the table here, 654 00:30:35.904 --> 00:30:38.156 and you can see that it's a completely 655 00:30:38.156 --> 00:30:39.300 different face shape. 656 00:30:39.300 --> 00:30:40.540 And it's an unfinished one. 657 00:30:40.540 --> 00:30:42.242 And I wanted to bring this out and show you something 658 00:30:42.242 --> 00:30:44.620 that I'd been working on that I hadn't finished. 659 00:30:44.620 --> 00:30:47.869 So you can see some of those details where I've got 660 00:30:47.869 --> 00:30:52.869 one eye that's sort of almost there and the other 661 00:30:53.180 --> 00:30:54.337 eye's not in the right spot. 662 00:30:54.337 --> 00:30:56.570 And it's just a kind of lumpy bulge at the moment, 663 00:30:56.570 --> 00:30:58.550 but I can go back and work into that. 664 00:30:58.550 --> 00:30:59.673 And also with this one, 665 00:30:59.673 --> 00:31:02.009 I've been really playing with that composition 666 00:31:02.009 --> 00:31:07.009 of the undercuts around the face and the neck and shoulder, 667 00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:09.590 so that the sort of the soap kind of goes 668 00:31:09.590 --> 00:31:12.540 in and out of that 2D, 3D form. 669 00:31:12.540 --> 00:31:14.510 And if I tilt it that way 670 00:31:14.510 --> 00:31:16.100 it might be a bit easier to see. 671 00:31:16.100 --> 00:31:16.933 I'm not sure. 672 00:31:19.420 --> 00:31:23.861 So yes, the next suggestion I would make is have a go 673 00:31:23.861 --> 00:31:26.610 at one of Jane Franklins facial features. 674 00:31:26.610 --> 00:31:28.440 And I know we've got some closeups, I think, 675 00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:32.050 of parts of her face for people to look at. 676 00:31:32.050 --> 00:31:34.470 And also if there's any questions or comments 677 00:31:34.470 --> 00:31:38.533 or things people wanna share, please pop them in the chat. 678 00:31:42.440 --> 00:31:45.230 And while we're looking at her on the screen, 679 00:31:45.230 --> 00:31:46.980 something that's really interesting to look 680 00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:51.550 at is the relationship between the eyeball and the eyelids, 681 00:31:51.550 --> 00:31:54.590 and a lot of the time when people start to carve an eye, 682 00:31:54.590 --> 00:31:59.590 and I'll show you an example, is they might start by going, 683 00:31:59.971 --> 00:32:04.971 ah, an eye is this shape. 684 00:32:05.100 --> 00:32:07.060 So they do this shape. 685 00:32:07.060 --> 00:32:10.960 That's the space of the eye in between the eyelids. 686 00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:13.608 And they end up with a shape like that. 687 00:32:13.608 --> 00:32:18.608 And then they start doing an eyelid around it like this. 688 00:32:20.070 --> 00:32:23.743 And so, while that gives us those kinds of lines 689 00:32:23.743 --> 00:32:26.786 that we see, we recognise as an eye, 690 00:32:26.786 --> 00:32:30.160 the shape of an eye is actually, you know, 691 00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:32.626 the part that's in between our eyelids is just one 692 00:32:32.626 --> 00:32:37.626 section of a sphere, and our eyelids come over that sphere. 693 00:32:37.630 --> 00:32:41.400 So treating the whole sphere and the eye socket 694 00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:44.330 as one thing and starting from... 695 00:32:45.551 --> 00:32:48.373 I'm pointing at my own face here, but I'll look at, 696 00:32:49.390 --> 00:32:53.260 I'll bring a picture of Jane onto the desk. 697 00:32:53.260 --> 00:32:54.093 I could do... 698 00:32:54.093 --> 00:32:58.213 If we look at this picture that I have, we've got that... 699 00:32:58.213 --> 00:33:02.360 I just wanted to be able to point at a feature. 700 00:33:02.360 --> 00:33:03.270 We can do that. 701 00:33:03.270 --> 00:33:05.327 So if we're looking 702 00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:10.980 at her eye, in fact, 703 00:33:10.980 --> 00:33:12.810 I'm gonna draw with pencil, 704 00:33:12.810 --> 00:33:17.810 and we start by taking the whole this shape here, 705 00:33:17.870 --> 00:33:21.330 rather than this in-between bit between the eyelids. 706 00:33:21.330 --> 00:33:24.283 And so when we start our carving, 707 00:33:26.380 --> 00:33:28.919 we're thinking about the whole eyeball shape. 708 00:33:28.919 --> 00:33:32.810 And I'm going back to my bit of soap. 709 00:33:32.810 --> 00:33:34.250 And so I'm carving 710 00:33:37.180 --> 00:33:39.470 the whole eyeball shape. 711 00:33:39.470 --> 00:33:42.100 I'm gonna do this very messily. 712 00:33:42.100 --> 00:33:44.000 And then what I'm gonna do 713 00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:49.000 is carve around... 714 00:33:49.010 --> 00:33:50.790 As I started right at the very beginning, 715 00:33:50.790 --> 00:33:53.793 carve away some of the soap first. 716 00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:02.860 And so the portrait gallery has these wonderful objects 717 00:34:02.860 --> 00:34:05.320 in its collection that are these little wax medallions 718 00:34:05.320 --> 00:34:08.850 and relief carvings of all sorts of interesting people. 719 00:34:08.850 --> 00:34:11.980 And Jane Franklin was particularly interesting person. 720 00:34:11.980 --> 00:34:16.550 And it's quite lovely to have her portraits of a couple 721 00:34:16.550 --> 00:34:18.770 of colonial women to look at today, 722 00:34:18.770 --> 00:34:21.860 because they were given a pretty hard time. 723 00:34:21.860 --> 00:34:26.860 They were referred to often as too bold, 724 00:34:27.010 --> 00:34:29.830 too forthright, too outspoken. 725 00:34:29.830 --> 00:34:31.740 Jane Franklin was criticised a lot for being 726 00:34:31.740 --> 00:34:36.710 opinionated and outspoken, for not sort of standing 727 00:34:36.710 --> 00:34:41.040 back and being a nice polite lady. 728 00:34:41.040 --> 00:34:45.833 And she was also incredibly loyal to her husband, 729 00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:50.760 who was lost 730 00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:53.453 in an expedition up in the Arctic. 731 00:34:55.680 --> 00:34:57.020 The whole expedition was lost, 732 00:34:57.020 --> 00:34:59.520 and it's quite a famous sort of story 733 00:34:59.520 --> 00:35:01.890 of the Franklin expedition that went missing. 734 00:35:01.890 --> 00:35:04.308 I think they were trying to find a particular passage, 735 00:35:04.308 --> 00:35:07.854 the northwest passage or somewhere up through Antarctica. 736 00:35:07.854 --> 00:35:11.450 And if I remember the story correctly they were 737 00:35:11.450 --> 00:35:13.650 actually poisoned because they were eating food 738 00:35:13.650 --> 00:35:18.100 that was in tins that had lead lining or lead 739 00:35:18.100 --> 00:35:19.670 seams or something. 740 00:35:19.670 --> 00:35:23.663 But at the time that Lady Franklin was campaigning 741 00:35:23.663 --> 00:35:28.490 for the expedition to be rescued or to be searched for, 742 00:35:28.490 --> 00:35:29.600 no one knew what had happened. 743 00:35:29.600 --> 00:35:31.835 They'd just sort of disappeared off 744 00:35:31.835 --> 00:35:35.669 into the Arctic, and she campaigned relentlessly 745 00:35:35.669 --> 00:35:36.850 for there to be 746 00:35:37.797 --> 00:35:40.530 search expeditions and rescue expeditions 747 00:35:40.530 --> 00:35:42.390 and she became quite an expert 748 00:35:42.390 --> 00:35:43.900 on the Arctic in the process. 749 00:35:43.900 --> 00:35:46.320 She did a lot of study and learning and looking 750 00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:50.260 at maps and finding out what kind of potential places 751 00:35:50.260 --> 00:35:51.096 they might've ended up. 752 00:35:51.096 --> 00:35:56.096 And so her, the character traits she was criticised for, 753 00:35:56.530 --> 00:36:00.563 that outspokenness were actually character traits 754 00:36:00.563 --> 00:36:03.450 that meant that eventually, I think, 755 00:36:03.450 --> 00:36:05.608 some answers were found, the expedition was, 756 00:36:05.608 --> 00:36:08.260 everyone was lost. 757 00:36:08.260 --> 00:36:11.890 And yeah, so I think it's really interesting 758 00:36:11.890 --> 00:36:14.113 that these kind of colonial women, 759 00:36:15.230 --> 00:36:17.928 Lady Grey as well was heavily criticised for being 760 00:36:17.928 --> 00:36:20.010 not a very nice person. 761 00:36:20.010 --> 00:36:23.040 And she had an incredibly volatile relationship 762 00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:25.012 with her husband and there's actually a portrait of him 763 00:36:25.012 --> 00:36:26.780 in the collection as well. 764 00:36:26.780 --> 00:36:28.840 And someone, I don't know if it was one of the staff 765 00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:31.450 who was telling me how the two portraits often get 766 00:36:31.450 --> 00:36:35.053 shown facing away from each other because they had this, 767 00:36:36.820 --> 00:36:38.840 they separated and they got back together 768 00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:40.180 and they separated again. 769 00:36:40.180 --> 00:36:43.270 And it was a very fraught relationship. 770 00:36:43.270 --> 00:36:47.320 And lady Grey did not like living in the colonies. 771 00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:50.979 I think she was very unimpressed by being 772 00:36:50.979 --> 00:36:55.070 in Australia and then in New Zealand, has her lot 773 00:36:55.070 --> 00:36:58.610 being married to Mr. Grey, 774 00:36:58.610 --> 00:37:03.610 who was apparently credited with getting, 775 00:37:03.660 --> 00:37:06.702 was it the South Australian government out of debt? 776 00:37:06.702 --> 00:37:10.210 The early colonial government was very heavily in debt 777 00:37:10.210 --> 00:37:15.070 and he was a very severe financial manager and he did 778 00:37:15.070 --> 00:37:18.680 a lot of work to get the colony back in the black, 779 00:37:18.680 --> 00:37:21.790 but it was considered to be, I think, 780 00:37:21.790 --> 00:37:25.380 quite unpopular and abstemious as part of that. 781 00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:27.290 So it's always really fascinating to look 782 00:37:27.290 --> 00:37:31.910 at these portraits which I think the Jane Grey one 783 00:37:31.910 --> 00:37:34.429 is fascinating because it's so gentle and delicate 784 00:37:34.429 --> 00:37:38.559 and beautiful and Theresa Walker's work is so subtle. 785 00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:41.880 And then to read these stories that don't seem 786 00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:45.560 to reflect the stories 787 00:37:45.560 --> 00:37:47.430 of her being this kind 788 00:37:47.430 --> 00:37:50.640 of unpleasant person, but then Teresa Walker herself 789 00:37:50.640 --> 00:37:55.078 who's a beautiful colonial sculptor, had, 790 00:37:55.078 --> 00:37:58.290 was also criticised for being forthright, 791 00:37:58.290 --> 00:37:59.610 outspoken and eccentric. 792 00:37:59.610 --> 00:38:03.170 So I think if you were a woman in the colonies 793 00:38:03.170 --> 00:38:04.790 and you had any kind of an opinion, 794 00:38:04.790 --> 00:38:09.160 you were always subject to this sort of criticism 795 00:38:09.160 --> 00:38:14.160 or censure, and a really great to, sort of, 796 00:38:15.380 --> 00:38:19.720 to recognise women colonial artists because they don't 797 00:38:19.720 --> 00:38:24.720 get as much recognition often as their male counterparts. 798 00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:29.400 And in this year of the Know My Name campaign 799 00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:31.220 that the National Gallery's been running it's great 800 00:38:31.220 --> 00:38:35.160 to celebrate those artists who are maybe we're not 801 00:38:35.160 --> 00:38:37.180 as familiar with. 802 00:38:37.180 --> 00:38:40.633 So I'm taking quite a bit of time on this eye here, 803 00:38:41.500 --> 00:38:43.423 carving into this piece of soap, 804 00:38:44.560 --> 00:38:49.560 and I'm just gonna look back at the photocopies. 805 00:38:49.940 --> 00:38:54.130 So I've made this very rough kind of form 806 00:38:54.130 --> 00:38:57.510 and I'm working quite large. 807 00:38:57.510 --> 00:38:59.640 I think one of the things that people tend to do 808 00:38:59.640 --> 00:39:01.970 when they first start carving with sope is work really, 809 00:39:01.970 --> 00:39:05.330 really, sorry, I'll put this down here, really tiny. 810 00:39:05.330 --> 00:39:07.540 And it's hard when you're working very small to get 811 00:39:07.540 --> 00:39:08.670 a lot of detail. 812 00:39:08.670 --> 00:39:11.840 So if you pick up one single feature and you work 813 00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:15.070 quite big, it's easier to work out how to get 814 00:39:15.070 --> 00:39:20.070 it to work and be able to make changes 815 00:39:20.160 --> 00:39:21.860 to it if you need to change it. 816 00:39:21.860 --> 00:39:24.310 So what we've got then 817 00:39:25.300 --> 00:39:29.490 with Jane Franklin's eyes 818 00:39:29.490 --> 00:39:34.490 is I've got this very rough convex shape. 819 00:39:34.549 --> 00:39:38.840 And then I'm drawing back into it to create this sense 820 00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:42.200 of a, an eyelid 821 00:39:42.200 --> 00:39:45.180 that's coming over the eyeball, 822 00:39:45.180 --> 00:39:47.930 and I'm doing this in a very messy way at the moment. 823 00:39:47.930 --> 00:39:51.543 So just to kind of create an idea, 824 00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:54.970 it's not gonna look much like her eyes, 825 00:39:54.970 --> 00:39:56.730 because the problem is, of course, 826 00:39:56.730 --> 00:40:01.440 that I'm talking a lot and in the talking I'm not 827 00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:04.110 paying attention quite as much to what I'm doing. 828 00:40:04.110 --> 00:40:08.620 So you'll get me talking and being very inaccurate 829 00:40:08.620 --> 00:40:11.970 with my carving rather than being accurate 830 00:40:11.970 --> 00:40:13.873 with my carving and silent. 831 00:40:18.330 --> 00:40:20.970 And something that when I'm carving at home I love 832 00:40:20.970 --> 00:40:24.632 to do is put on a podcast and listen to a podcast 833 00:40:24.632 --> 00:40:27.673 and just quietly carve away. 834 00:40:34.010 --> 00:40:36.430 If anyone has any questions that I like to ask 835 00:40:36.430 --> 00:40:37.280 Ellis while they're here? 836 00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:40.093 Ah, yes, please do ask me some questions. 837 00:40:40.093 --> 00:40:41.153 Pop them in the chat. 838 00:40:42.010 --> 00:40:44.973 Either the chat or the Facebook Live comments. 839 00:40:45.820 --> 00:40:46.983 We love questions. 840 00:40:48.210 --> 00:40:50.930 Because a few people up there too busy to... 841 00:40:50.930 --> 00:40:51.763 Yeah. 842 00:40:51.763 --> 00:40:55.180 It's, I find that people just get completely immersed 843 00:40:55.180 --> 00:40:56.440 in the carving, 844 00:40:56.440 --> 00:40:58.610 because it's a very pleasurable thing to do. 845 00:40:58.610 --> 00:41:02.410 I find it very pleasurable and I get the impression 846 00:41:02.410 --> 00:41:04.890 that a lot of other people do as well. 847 00:41:04.890 --> 00:41:07.900 And we did have some emails backwards and forwards 848 00:41:07.900 --> 00:41:10.150 in the preparation for this workshop, 849 00:41:10.150 --> 00:41:14.260 where, apparently, 850 00:41:14.260 --> 00:41:18.480 carving soap, there's a whole kind of niche interest 851 00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:20.624 group on the internet who are 852 00:41:20.624 --> 00:41:25.624 into ASMR, which is that sensory experience 853 00:41:25.959 --> 00:41:28.300 of enjoying certain kinds of sounds. 854 00:41:28.300 --> 00:41:32.380 And that carving soap has its own whole ASMR 855 00:41:32.380 --> 00:41:35.100 interest group of people who will watch and listen 856 00:41:35.100 --> 00:41:38.480 to videos of other people carving soap to enjoy 857 00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:42.210 that sort of sensory experience of hearing the sound, 858 00:41:42.210 --> 00:41:44.510 the scraping of the carving. 859 00:41:44.510 --> 00:41:47.470 We might go viral with this video, 860 00:41:47.470 --> 00:41:49.690 on all kinds of special websites. (laughs) 861 00:41:49.690 --> 00:41:53.463 To get some proper, good sound recordings happening. 862 00:41:55.890 --> 00:41:57.220 Do you ever take, 863 00:41:57.220 --> 00:41:58.840 because it could be quite portable, 864 00:41:58.840 --> 00:41:59.860 this practise, couldn't it? 865 00:41:59.860 --> 00:42:03.210 Do you ever take it out en plein air or outside 866 00:42:03.210 --> 00:42:04.310 of the house? 867 00:42:04.310 --> 00:42:07.745 I haven't, mainly because I tend to find, 868 00:42:07.745 --> 00:42:10.190 I like to sit at a table to do it, 869 00:42:10.190 --> 00:42:12.130 but you could absolutely take it anywhere. 870 00:42:12.130 --> 00:42:17.060 And I think it's one of those things where going 871 00:42:17.060 --> 00:42:19.670 on holidays or going and doing an artist residency 872 00:42:19.670 --> 00:42:23.640 or something, it'd be really nice to easily take 873 00:42:23.640 --> 00:42:27.293 these kinds of tools and work with them in other places. 874 00:42:28.370 --> 00:42:31.548 And I had, someone commented, 875 00:42:31.548 --> 00:42:33.920 I was posting about this workshop 876 00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:36.160 on Facebook and Instagram and telling people 877 00:42:36.160 --> 00:42:37.330 I was doing it. 878 00:42:37.330 --> 00:42:40.802 And one of my acquaintances commented 879 00:42:40.802 --> 00:42:43.805 on the Instagram, I think it was the Facebook post, 880 00:42:43.805 --> 00:42:47.340 about using Pears soap, because you can see through it, 881 00:42:47.340 --> 00:42:49.790 it's got that beautiful amber kind of quality. 882 00:42:49.790 --> 00:42:53.290 And it led me to think that would be such 883 00:42:53.290 --> 00:42:58.290 a wonderful material to carve insects out of, 884 00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:00.573 because you'd have these kinds of look, 885 00:43:00.573 --> 00:43:02.730 that it would look like they were made out of amber. 886 00:43:02.730 --> 00:43:06.200 So I think I'll give that a try sometime. 887 00:43:06.200 --> 00:43:10.469 And I have got quite an extensive collection of cicada, 888 00:43:10.469 --> 00:43:13.550 cicada bodies and wings at home at the moment, 889 00:43:13.550 --> 00:43:16.610 because we had such a good summer for cicadas. 890 00:43:16.610 --> 00:43:19.400 So I collected a whole stack of them. 891 00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:22.190 So you might see me producing a whole stack 892 00:43:22.190 --> 00:43:26.152 of cicada soap carvings. 893 00:43:26.152 --> 00:43:27.770 Question from Punch 894 00:43:27.770 --> 00:43:29.860 who's carving in wax at the moment. 895 00:43:29.860 --> 00:43:32.090 And they were wondering if it's easier, 896 00:43:32.090 --> 00:43:33.943 if soap is easier for a beginner? 897 00:43:36.470 --> 00:43:38.320 I would probably say yes. 898 00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:42.020 I, although it very much depends on the kind 899 00:43:42.020 --> 00:43:44.230 of of wax you're using, 900 00:43:44.230 --> 00:43:49.050 because waxes have different levels of being brittle 901 00:43:49.050 --> 00:43:51.900 or malleable or soft or hard. 902 00:43:51.900 --> 00:43:55.380 And I know that something like paraffin wax, for example, 903 00:43:55.380 --> 00:43:58.200 is quite powdery and brittle, 904 00:43:58.200 --> 00:44:03.200 but then something like beeswax is very soft. 905 00:44:03.410 --> 00:44:05.920 And so it would really depend a lot on the kind 906 00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:08.280 of wax that you're carving with. 907 00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:11.498 And some waxes are really, 908 00:44:11.498 --> 00:44:14.360 you'd think they might be real easy to carve 909 00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:16.540 with and they're actually not. 910 00:44:16.540 --> 00:44:19.960 The wax carvings that I was doing when I made the work 911 00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:22.840 for the, for here, for the portrait gallery, 912 00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:25.740 were a particular kind of microcrystalline wax 913 00:44:25.740 --> 00:44:28.180 and they were fairly easy to carve. 914 00:44:28.180 --> 00:44:30.220 Probably no harder then carving soap. 915 00:44:30.220 --> 00:44:31.380 Ellis, can you see the screen? 916 00:44:31.380 --> 00:44:34.045 Oh, yes. Punch carving in wax. 917 00:44:34.045 --> 00:44:36.050 (laughs) That's fantastic. 918 00:44:36.050 --> 00:44:36.883 A beloved pet? 919 00:44:36.883 --> 00:44:38.083 It's gorgeous. 920 00:44:40.200 --> 00:44:41.033 Yeah. 921 00:44:41.033 --> 00:44:45.293 That's really lovely. Oh, that's great. 922 00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:49.920 And so that reminds me while we are sitting here 923 00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:54.040 doing this is that with both wax and soap you can 924 00:44:54.040 --> 00:44:57.440 get really beautiful effects if you put a light behind it. 925 00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:01.210 So if I put this light on the table here and stick 926 00:45:01.210 --> 00:45:05.220 a piece of soap on it, you get this lovely, 927 00:45:05.220 --> 00:45:10.220 it's almost like a cameo type effect. 928 00:45:10.980 --> 00:45:13.210 And I don't know if that's blowing out on the camera 929 00:45:13.210 --> 00:45:16.740 or you can see if I move it away or close, 930 00:45:16.740 --> 00:45:18.710 that it's, that works. 931 00:45:18.710 --> 00:45:21.807 Yep. And so this is a really nice thing to play with. 932 00:45:21.807 --> 00:45:24.980 And in fact, an artist that I went to art school 933 00:45:24.980 --> 00:45:28.540 with who's also a Canberra based artist, Ham Darroch, 934 00:45:28.540 --> 00:45:32.120 he made a whole stack of work when he first finished 935 00:45:32.120 --> 00:45:34.740 art school where he did soap carvings, 936 00:45:34.740 --> 00:45:36.900 and he put a little timber frame around them 937 00:45:36.900 --> 00:45:39.120 and a little light behind them. 938 00:45:39.120 --> 00:45:41.770 And so the work sat on the wall and he had a little 939 00:45:41.770 --> 00:45:42.603 switch on top. 940 00:45:42.603 --> 00:45:44.390 So you press the switch and it would light up 941 00:45:44.390 --> 00:45:46.820 and you'd see that change and the light coming 942 00:45:46.820 --> 00:45:49.320 through the soap and that you could turn it off again. 943 00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:52.950 So I don't know if he has any of those works any more, 944 00:45:52.950 --> 00:45:57.710 but it was a very delightful mechanism for showing 945 00:45:57.710 --> 00:45:59.450 these beautiful little carvings. 946 00:45:59.450 --> 00:46:02.180 And I think from memory, his carvings were little sorts 947 00:46:02.180 --> 00:46:03.390 of domestic interiors. 948 00:46:03.390 --> 00:46:06.430 So carvings of lampshades and things like that. 949 00:46:06.430 --> 00:46:08.980 So there's certainly people out there who are using 950 00:46:10.380 --> 00:46:12.610 these as a contemporary art medium, 951 00:46:12.610 --> 00:46:16.280 as well as something we can do as a sort 952 00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:17.470 of delightful hobby. 953 00:46:17.470 --> 00:46:20.108 It it's being used in a whole range of different ways. 954 00:46:20.108 --> 00:46:21.870 Probably leads into a good question 955 00:46:21.870 --> 00:46:23.170 from Margaret, who's wondering, 956 00:46:23.170 --> 00:46:25.360 once the work is completed how long would a soap 957 00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:27.610 sculpture last and is there a good way to preserve 958 00:46:27.610 --> 00:46:28.865 it or protect it? 959 00:46:28.865 --> 00:46:30.580 That is a really good question. 960 00:46:30.580 --> 00:46:34.440 And in fact I'm not exactly sure how long a soap 961 00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:36.745 sculpture would last because the ones that I made 962 00:46:36.745 --> 00:46:41.140 more than 20 years ago I didn't hang on to and I tend 963 00:46:41.140 --> 00:46:42.453 to shed work. 964 00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:46.660 I work in a very sort of ephemeral way. 965 00:46:46.660 --> 00:46:50.653 So I would say that as long as it's not damp, 966 00:46:51.810 --> 00:46:52.643 you'll be fine. 967 00:46:52.643 --> 00:46:54.833 If it's stored in a dry environment. 968 00:46:55.672 --> 00:46:59.360 What will happen to soap over time is it does tend 969 00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:02.092 to shrink a bit because if there's moisture in it, 970 00:47:02.092 --> 00:47:05.134 the moisture will eventually dry out and the soap 971 00:47:05.134 --> 00:47:06.750 itself will shrink. 972 00:47:06.750 --> 00:47:10.500 But if it's kept in a dry and fairly stable environment 973 00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:14.680 I can't see why it wouldn't last for indefinitely. 974 00:47:14.680 --> 00:47:16.110 If it gets dusty, 975 00:47:16.110 --> 00:47:18.880 or if it's in an environment where the humidity changes 976 00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:20.900 a lot, which is pretty much the same thing, 977 00:47:20.900 --> 00:47:23.770 anything any kind of art and particularly things 978 00:47:23.770 --> 00:47:25.120 like works on paper, 979 00:47:25.120 --> 00:47:27.160 if they're in an environment where the humidity goes 980 00:47:27.160 --> 00:47:28.240 up and down, 981 00:47:28.240 --> 00:47:31.090 they'll expand and contract and crack and wrinkle. 982 00:47:31.090 --> 00:47:32.530 And the same goes for soap. 983 00:47:32.530 --> 00:47:34.826 If you've seen very old soap that's been used 984 00:47:34.826 --> 00:47:38.900 and then left, it kind of splits as it dries out. 985 00:47:38.900 --> 00:47:41.541 So that would be the thing I'd say if you were making 986 00:47:41.541 --> 00:47:44.459 soap carvings in you wanted to keep them is keep them 987 00:47:44.459 --> 00:47:46.630 in an environment where the humidity is not 988 00:47:46.630 --> 00:47:48.300 very hugely variable. 989 00:47:48.300 --> 00:47:52.004 So don't keep them in your bathroom, for example. Yeah. 990 00:47:52.004 --> 00:47:54.332 Get accidentally put in the bath. 991 00:47:54.332 --> 00:47:59.332 (laughs) And I'm all for making things not necessarily 992 00:48:00.328 --> 00:48:03.160 to treat them preciously and keep them forever either, 993 00:48:03.160 --> 00:48:06.600 but to have them in the moment or have them for a sort 994 00:48:06.600 --> 00:48:09.860 of experience or a certain amount of time. 995 00:48:09.860 --> 00:48:11.873 And then for them to, you know, 996 00:48:13.520 --> 00:48:16.740 be used or be given away or be shared... 997 00:48:18.540 --> 00:48:20.230 We've got some people showing us their- 998 00:48:20.230 --> 00:48:22.048 Their soap carvings? Their eyes. 999 00:48:22.048 --> 00:48:23.204 Ah, great! 1000 00:48:23.204 --> 00:48:25.117 Got a few coming. Beautiful. 1001 00:48:25.117 --> 00:48:28.430 And Mel was holding up her sunlight soap. 1002 00:48:28.430 --> 00:48:33.090 Excellent. Here we go. 1003 00:48:33.090 --> 00:48:35.830 Sunlight soap is a particular favourite of mine 1004 00:48:35.830 --> 00:48:39.350 because I made a massive work out of sunlight soap 1005 00:48:40.210 --> 00:48:41.043 in the '90s, a long time ago now. 1006 00:48:41.043 --> 00:48:43.059 We have some pictures of that. 1007 00:48:43.059 --> 00:48:46.989 And I spent time sitting in the art gallery 1008 00:48:46.989 --> 00:48:50.450 out at Strathnairn, which is an old farmhouse, 1009 00:48:50.450 --> 00:48:53.700 hand cutting up blocks of sunlight soap into tiles 1010 00:48:53.700 --> 00:48:56.343 and then tiling the walls of the gallery. 1011 00:48:57.260 --> 00:48:59.700 It was an amazing project and the smell was 1012 00:48:59.700 --> 00:49:02.800 just completely overpowering in the space. 1013 00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:06.270 And something that was really interesting for me was 1014 00:49:06.270 --> 00:49:09.180 that when audiences came into that space they would 1015 00:49:09.180 --> 00:49:10.950 start compulsively telling me all 1016 00:49:10.950 --> 00:49:13.160 of these incredible stories that this, 1017 00:49:13.160 --> 00:49:16.216 that having this smell that triggered memory 1018 00:49:16.216 --> 00:49:19.320 in the space meant that people would come 1019 00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:21.070 in and talk about having their mouths washed 1020 00:49:21.070 --> 00:49:23.180 out with soap when they were naughty children 1021 00:49:23.180 --> 00:49:26.490 or remembering growing up in an era 1022 00:49:26.490 --> 00:49:29.390 where their mother hand washed all of their clothes 1023 00:49:29.390 --> 00:49:31.700 in a big copper and then rung them out in a ringer. 1024 00:49:31.700 --> 00:49:35.220 So one of the things I did that was an unexpected part 1025 00:49:35.220 --> 00:49:37.310 of that, became an unexpected part of that exhibition 1026 00:49:37.310 --> 00:49:40.002 was collected of those stories and recorded them. 1027 00:49:40.002 --> 00:49:44.190 And it really made me conscious that the materiality 1028 00:49:44.190 --> 00:49:47.988 is so powerful when you're making objects 1029 00:49:47.988 --> 00:49:51.274 and that it really significantly contributes 1030 00:49:51.274 --> 00:49:54.272 to how people understand those objects, and what they mean, 1031 00:49:54.272 --> 00:49:56.163 what they mean to people. 1032 00:49:57.280 --> 00:50:00.640 And yeah, so that the soap is a, 1033 00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:03.560 it's a great material to carve with, 1034 00:50:03.560 --> 00:50:05.670 but it also has all these associations. 1035 00:50:05.670 --> 00:50:09.300 And as an artist you can really play 1036 00:50:09.300 --> 00:50:10.510 with those associations. 1037 00:50:10.510 --> 00:50:13.090 So you can start to think about soap having 1038 00:50:13.090 --> 00:50:15.550 associations with animal fat and having associations 1039 00:50:15.550 --> 00:50:20.027 with cleaning and the different kinds of scented 1040 00:50:20.027 --> 00:50:22.540 soaps have different associations 1041 00:50:22.540 --> 00:50:26.270 and that Pears soap as well, that beautiful transparency. 1042 00:50:26.270 --> 00:50:29.583 So if you're using soap to carve with, 1043 00:50:30.680 --> 00:50:32.620 you can really make the most of that, 1044 00:50:32.620 --> 00:50:36.880 the kind of the meaning that it has inherent in it. 1045 00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:38.607 And I should check, 1046 00:50:38.607 --> 00:50:42.030 how are we going for time here, 10 to three, 1047 00:50:42.030 --> 00:50:43.920 going pretty well. 1048 00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:45.640 Shayne did have a question 1049 00:50:45.640 --> 00:50:47.140 which interestingly enough 1050 00:50:47.140 --> 00:50:50.900 crops up in all of our workshops, not just soap carving, 1051 00:50:50.900 --> 00:50:52.690 but he's wondering how you stop from fiddling 1052 00:50:52.690 --> 00:50:54.230 with the details. 1053 00:50:54.230 --> 00:50:57.360 Ah, look, I do get stuck fiddling with the details 1054 00:50:57.360 --> 00:50:59.820 and I think that's one of those things 1055 00:50:59.820 --> 00:51:01.850 that's really about practise. 1056 00:51:01.850 --> 00:51:05.320 And sometimes, for me, 1057 00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:07.030 if I feel like I'm fiddling with the details, 1058 00:51:07.030 --> 00:51:09.070 I just need to stop altogether and start 1059 00:51:09.070 --> 00:51:11.740 doing something else. 1060 00:51:11.740 --> 00:51:14.510 And I certainly have found that, 1061 00:51:14.510 --> 00:51:16.483 and those of you that have done a lot of life drawing 1062 00:51:16.483 --> 00:51:20.460 will find this too, that doing a kind of, 1063 00:51:20.460 --> 00:51:21.870 particularly with a face, 1064 00:51:21.870 --> 00:51:24.570 trying to block the whole thing in and then go 1065 00:51:24.570 --> 00:51:28.919 and work through overall, a bit on every section, 1066 00:51:28.919 --> 00:51:32.647 and slowly come to the point where you're working 1067 00:51:32.647 --> 00:51:36.415 into the details is one strategy that a lot of people use, 1068 00:51:36.415 --> 00:51:39.011 but you've may have seen paintings, 1069 00:51:39.011 --> 00:51:42.040 hand-finished paintings that some people start 1070 00:51:42.040 --> 00:51:43.890 in one corner and they work the whole way through. 1071 00:51:43.890 --> 00:51:45.850 And they work at the same level of detail 1072 00:51:45.850 --> 00:51:47.030 the whole way across. 1073 00:51:47.030 --> 00:51:50.444 So it's sort of a different process for different people. 1074 00:51:50.444 --> 00:51:52.970 But I think the thing about fiddling with the details 1075 00:51:52.970 --> 00:51:54.320 and something that I've certainly done 1076 00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:57.190 is once you've fiddled enough of the details 1077 00:51:57.190 --> 00:51:59.524 that you've completely destroyed your work 1078 00:51:59.524 --> 00:52:01.592 or you've gone too far with it, 1079 00:52:01.592 --> 00:52:04.000 you sort of learn to pull back a bit. 1080 00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.470 And so sometimes going, 1081 00:52:06.470 --> 00:52:09.060 taking it so far that you've wrecked it is a really 1082 00:52:09.060 --> 00:52:11.350 good learning experience, because you kind of know, 1083 00:52:11.350 --> 00:52:13.595 you start to judge when you need to stop and pull back 1084 00:52:13.595 --> 00:52:15.110 and have a break. 1085 00:52:15.110 --> 00:52:18.014 And also, if I'm fiddling with the details, 1086 00:52:18.014 --> 00:52:21.940 that might be a sign that I need to put it down go 1087 00:52:21.940 --> 00:52:23.270 and have a cup of tea, 1088 00:52:23.270 --> 00:52:25.352 put it away until tomorrow and then come back 1089 00:52:25.352 --> 00:52:27.540 to it and have another look at it, 1090 00:52:27.540 --> 00:52:29.650 because sometimes I'm fiddling with a detail 1091 00:52:29.650 --> 00:52:33.218 because it doesn't feel right or something's not working. 1092 00:52:33.218 --> 00:52:35.260 And when I come back and look at it later on, 1093 00:52:35.260 --> 00:52:37.380 I realised that the thing that I was focused on isn't 1094 00:52:37.380 --> 00:52:39.170 the problem anyway, it's some other part 1095 00:52:39.170 --> 00:52:41.730 of it that needs to be fixed or dealt 1096 00:52:41.730 --> 00:52:43.610 with that I haven't really been paying a lot 1097 00:52:43.610 --> 00:52:45.210 of attention to. 1098 00:52:45.210 --> 00:52:48.720 So, yeah. Good question. 1099 00:52:48.720 --> 00:52:51.400 I'm not exactly sure because I certainly find 1100 00:52:51.400 --> 00:52:54.950 that I get trapped in that one at times, 1101 00:52:54.950 --> 00:52:56.940 but I think one of the things is just to be conscious 1102 00:52:56.940 --> 00:52:59.520 of it and to sort of ask yourself 1103 00:52:59.520 --> 00:53:02.923 if that's what you're doing, you need to take a break. 1104 00:53:06.950 --> 00:53:10.873 So I'm still working on this eyeball. 1105 00:53:13.220 --> 00:53:15.740 And something that's quite interesting I think 1106 00:53:15.740 --> 00:53:18.056 about working on a single facial feature is you do get 1107 00:53:18.056 --> 00:53:22.470 to work out how it comes together, 1108 00:53:22.470 --> 00:53:25.430 and that can then help if you work on individual 1109 00:53:25.430 --> 00:53:28.879 elements like the eye or a nose or lips, 1110 00:53:28.879 --> 00:53:30.987 that when it comes to doing the whole face 1111 00:53:30.987 --> 00:53:35.350 you've potentially solved some of the problems in advance. 1112 00:53:37.029 --> 00:53:40.597 And I've kind of cut too deep into this eye. 1113 00:53:40.597 --> 00:53:43.718 But one of the things I really noticed when I was 1114 00:53:43.718 --> 00:53:48.718 looking at Jane Franklin's eyes and that original, 1115 00:53:49.640 --> 00:53:52.710 that beautiful sculpture that we've been looking at, 1116 00:53:52.710 --> 00:53:56.900 is that where on the outside of her eye, the upper 1117 00:53:56.900 --> 00:53:59.786 eyelid kind of goes over the top of the lower eyelid 1118 00:53:59.786 --> 00:54:03.190 and making that happen in the carving, 1119 00:54:03.190 --> 00:54:05.580 really paying attention to 1120 00:54:05.580 --> 00:54:09.680 how those two eyelids sit 1121 00:54:09.680 --> 00:54:10.730 with each other. 1122 00:54:10.730 --> 00:54:14.260 And that I'd started trying to do a version 1123 00:54:14.260 --> 00:54:16.260 of her whole face. 1124 00:54:16.260 --> 00:54:19.595 And I got totally stuck just on the right eye 1125 00:54:19.595 --> 00:54:21.540 and left everything else. 1126 00:54:21.540 --> 00:54:24.060 'Cause I was having this problem just with that little 1127 00:54:24.060 --> 00:54:26.880 bit where the outside of the eyelid sits, 1128 00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:30.050 the upper eyelid sits over the top of the bottom eyelid. 1129 00:54:30.050 --> 00:54:33.230 And so that's where stopping the whole face and going 1130 00:54:33.230 --> 00:54:36.741 and just looking at that eye and resolving 1131 00:54:36.741 --> 00:54:40.250 that relationship and then coming back to the whole 1132 00:54:40.250 --> 00:54:44.580 face and being able to do the eye, 1133 00:54:44.580 --> 00:54:48.037 understanding what that relationship was, 1134 00:54:48.037 --> 00:54:52.030 I think is really helpful. 1135 00:54:52.030 --> 00:54:54.140 So if I was going to do a whole series of soap 1136 00:54:54.140 --> 00:54:57.720 carved portraits, I'd probably do quite a few 1137 00:54:57.720 --> 00:55:00.685 separate ones that focus on details. 1138 00:55:00.685 --> 00:55:03.564 And then I would take those details back 1139 00:55:03.564 --> 00:55:07.670 into the whole face portrait. 1140 00:55:07.670 --> 00:55:12.270 And I've just cut too far into my eyelid here as well. So... 1141 00:55:12.270 --> 00:55:14.560 Nice thing about soap is if you cut too far you can 1142 00:55:14.560 --> 00:55:16.520 just scrape it all back and keep going, 1143 00:55:16.520 --> 00:55:18.570 or you can scrape it off and start again. 1144 00:55:19.930 --> 00:55:22.680 I tend to find, and this is really happening for me today, 1145 00:55:22.680 --> 00:55:25.383 talking and working means that I will, 1146 00:55:27.309 --> 00:55:28.957 I'm not being as careful as I would normally be 1147 00:55:28.957 --> 00:55:32.960 so I'm going a bit too far with some of the aspects, 1148 00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:34.530 and I might stop doing this eye 1149 00:55:34.530 --> 00:55:35.630 because I'm doing exactly that. 1150 00:55:35.630 --> 00:55:38.590 I'm just kind of carving away more and more, 1151 00:55:38.590 --> 00:55:43.060 and might start looking at a profile or a whole face, 1152 00:55:43.060 --> 00:55:45.030 but really interested to see how people, 1153 00:55:45.030 --> 00:55:47.840 where are people up to with your carvings at the moment. 1154 00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:49.260 We'll give a shout out to Kim Scott 1155 00:55:49.260 --> 00:55:50.190 on Facebook too, 1156 00:55:50.190 --> 00:55:52.770 who thanked us for taking this out to the regions 1157 00:55:52.770 --> 00:55:56.523 which is the whole point of these workshops 1158 00:55:56.523 --> 00:55:57.910 is that we can get to people outside 1159 00:55:57.910 --> 00:56:00.530 of Canberra and get to people around 1160 00:56:00.530 --> 00:56:02.590 Australia and around the world. 1161 00:56:02.590 --> 00:56:05.670 I think it's so important and it's been 1162 00:56:05.670 --> 00:56:10.670 so fascinating as an artist over the last year, 1163 00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:15.652 just how much we can tap into things 1164 00:56:15.652 --> 00:56:18.210 happening in other parts of the world and we can attend 1165 00:56:18.210 --> 00:56:19.380 workshops and talks. 1166 00:56:19.380 --> 00:56:23.150 And I was completely blown away recently to watch some 1167 00:56:23.150 --> 00:56:27.540 of those Laurie Anderson talks online, 1168 00:56:27.540 --> 00:56:30.089 that she's just one of my art heroes, 1169 00:56:30.089 --> 00:56:32.886 and to get to see her present these really magical 1170 00:56:32.886 --> 00:56:36.500 Zoom talks, I'll probably never get to see 1171 00:56:36.500 --> 00:56:37.940 her in the flesh, 1172 00:56:37.940 --> 00:56:40.386 but having that opportunity to experience someone's 1173 00:56:40.386 --> 00:56:43.133 work in that way, it's really exciting. 1174 00:56:44.070 --> 00:56:45.340 So... 1175 00:56:45.340 --> 00:56:47.030 We do have a question from Maggie. 1176 00:56:47.030 --> 00:56:48.970 Is the curve tool you're using a special 1177 00:56:48.970 --> 00:56:50.320 tool for sculpting? 1178 00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.970 Ah, the curve tool I'm using is a ceramics tool. 1179 00:56:52.970 --> 00:56:56.650 So you can buy these at art supply stores, 1180 00:56:56.650 --> 00:57:01.650 ceramic supply stores, $2 shops, reject shops. 1181 00:57:02.280 --> 00:57:04.960 If you're in a sort of shopping centre, 1182 00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:08.050 if you've got a kind of an art supply store or one 1183 00:57:08.050 --> 00:57:11.400 of those kind of everything bargain shops, 1184 00:57:11.400 --> 00:57:13.900 you can often pick up these tools in the sort 1185 00:57:13.900 --> 00:57:15.860 of arty crafty section. 1186 00:57:15.860 --> 00:57:17.180 And sometimes they come in packs. 1187 00:57:17.180 --> 00:57:19.110 So you get a whole bunch of different tools 1188 00:57:19.110 --> 00:57:23.770 in the pack that have pointy bits and round bits. 1189 00:57:23.770 --> 00:57:25.500 And we've got another one here. 1190 00:57:25.500 --> 00:57:27.430 This other one that I've just put down on the table 1191 00:57:27.430 --> 00:57:29.730 is another ceramics carving tool that just has a kind 1192 00:57:29.730 --> 00:57:32.920 of a loop shape on it and you can carve really 1193 00:57:32.920 --> 00:57:34.103 easily with that. 1194 00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:37.910 The other thing that is a really great, 1195 00:57:37.910 --> 00:57:39.620 and I don't have any on the table with me, 1196 00:57:39.620 --> 00:57:41.133 is a really great tool to use, 1197 00:57:41.133 --> 00:57:43.415 are lino cutting tool and you can buy them 1198 00:57:43.415 --> 00:57:45.220 at art supply stores as well. 1199 00:57:45.220 --> 00:57:47.433 And often they come in a pack of three or four 1200 00:57:47.433 --> 00:57:50.320 and they've got different shaped blades on the end 1201 00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:52.823 of them and etching tools. 1202 00:57:52.823 --> 00:57:56.860 So scissors are also, like, quite sharp, 1203 00:57:56.860 --> 00:57:59.610 pointy scissors can be a really nice thing to work 1204 00:57:59.610 --> 00:58:03.929 with and I often will carve away at things 1205 00:58:03.929 --> 00:58:05.553 with scissors too. 1206 00:58:07.160 --> 00:58:09.120 So yeah, the short answer is 1207 00:58:09.120 --> 00:58:12.555 it is a specialist tool for ceramics. 1208 00:58:12.555 --> 00:58:14.810 They're very easy to get hold of. 1209 00:58:14.810 --> 00:58:16.940 And they're usually pretty cheap as well. 1210 00:58:16.940 --> 00:58:18.880 Very affordable art form, this one, isn't it? 1211 00:58:18.880 --> 00:58:19.713 It is! 1212 00:58:19.713 --> 00:58:21.930 It is a very affordable art form and I'm a big advocate 1213 00:58:21.930 --> 00:58:24.250 of affordable art forms. 1214 00:58:24.250 --> 00:58:27.440 I've spent a lot of my practise over the last 20 1215 00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:29.230 years working with things like masking tape 1216 00:58:29.230 --> 00:58:33.801 and cardboard and paper and very freely available 1217 00:58:33.801 --> 00:58:35.650 and non-specialist materials. 1218 00:58:35.650 --> 00:58:38.530 And I think it's always an interesting challenge 1219 00:58:38.530 --> 00:58:43.410 to try and work with materials that are considered 1220 00:58:43.410 --> 00:58:44.840 to be ordinary and not special, 1221 00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:48.560 but to transform them into something that creates 1222 00:58:48.560 --> 00:58:50.540 that sort of sense of joy or wonder. 1223 00:58:50.540 --> 00:58:55.110 And as someone who... 1224 00:58:55.110 --> 00:59:00.110 I do art as my life and make a living and teach, 1225 00:59:00.930 --> 00:59:04.140 but I also like to make things for pleasure. 1226 00:59:04.140 --> 00:59:07.557 And so just having things to hand that you can pick up 1227 00:59:07.557 --> 00:59:12.250 and work with and throw away at the end, 1228 00:59:12.250 --> 00:59:14.000 that are not sort of precious things that you need 1229 00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:15.850 to hang on to or find ways to store, 1230 00:59:15.850 --> 00:59:17.380 or that cost a lot to make. 1231 00:59:17.380 --> 00:59:21.280 And certainly in sculpture, as a sculpture student, 1232 00:59:21.280 --> 00:59:23.650 I was looking at people who were working in bronze 1233 00:59:23.650 --> 00:59:26.820 and these incredibly permanent media and also 1234 00:59:26.820 --> 00:59:29.010 incredibly expensive and taking lots and lots 1235 00:59:29.010 --> 00:59:30.780 of people to make. 1236 00:59:30.780 --> 00:59:34.460 And bronze sculpture is stunningly beautiful. 1237 00:59:34.460 --> 00:59:36.610 And I know some amazingly skilled artists who work 1238 00:59:36.610 --> 00:59:38.740 in those areas, but for me, 1239 00:59:38.740 --> 00:59:42.013 the idea of committing things to permanency, 1240 00:59:42.860 --> 00:59:44.990 it doesn't always sit well with that sort of idea 1241 00:59:44.990 --> 00:59:47.060 that we're living in a society 1242 00:59:47.060 --> 00:59:49.450 where we're just producing so much stuff and we have 1243 00:59:49.450 --> 00:59:51.370 to find ways to deal with all that stuff. 1244 00:59:51.370 --> 00:59:54.660 And there's so much waste that we're producing all 1245 00:59:54.660 --> 00:59:57.180 the time, and our galleries and institutions are 1246 00:59:57.180 --> 00:59:58.990 filling up with things as well. 1247 00:59:58.990 --> 01:00:03.120 So I'm not really looking to make things that have 1248 01:00:03.120 --> 01:00:05.550 a sense of a legacy to last into the future. 1249 01:00:05.550 --> 01:00:08.270 I'm really much more about making things that are part 1250 01:00:08.270 --> 01:00:11.150 of a conversation with audiences now. 1251 01:00:11.150 --> 01:00:14.500 And so maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot. 1252 01:00:14.500 --> 01:00:17.260 I'm not gonna go down in history because nothing 1253 01:00:17.260 --> 01:00:19.330 will exist after I'm gone... 1254 01:00:19.330 --> 01:00:20.700 Viral soap carving video. 1255 01:00:20.700 --> 01:00:22.250 Yeah, possibly. Yeah. 1256 01:00:22.250 --> 01:00:24.543 I'll leave it somewhere on the internet. 1257 01:00:27.120 --> 01:00:30.780 Just before I move on to looking at a profile of a face. 1258 01:00:30.780 --> 01:00:32.740 Does anyone else have any questions? 1259 01:00:32.740 --> 01:00:34.330 We haven't had any other questions coming. 1260 01:00:34.330 --> 01:00:35.170 Oh, I'm sorry. 1261 01:00:35.170 --> 01:00:36.840 I think Maggie did us one way back 1262 01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:39.600 about the scraping off and starting again. 1263 01:00:39.600 --> 01:00:42.097 Do you take the complete surface off it? 1264 01:00:42.097 --> 01:00:42.930 Yeah. 1265 01:00:42.930 --> 01:00:45.680 So this kind of mangled eye that I've been working 1266 01:00:45.680 --> 01:00:46.910 on while I've been talking... 1267 01:00:46.910 --> 01:00:48.880 Oh, we're gonna scrape off? I'll scrape that off. 1268 01:00:48.880 --> 01:00:51.545 So I'll just take the scissors and I'll just scrape 1269 01:00:51.545 --> 01:00:54.563 it back completely to a flat surface. 1270 01:00:56.210 --> 01:00:58.436 And this can be very liberating 1271 01:00:58.436 --> 01:01:01.396 if you're in that feedback loop of I'm working 1272 01:01:01.396 --> 01:01:04.630 on this one detail and I'm stuck on it and I keep 1273 01:01:04.630 --> 01:01:05.710 fiddling around the edges 1274 01:01:05.710 --> 01:01:07.530 with it and I'm not getting anywhere. 1275 01:01:07.530 --> 01:01:10.160 And I'm just digging a deeper and deeper hole for myself. 1276 01:01:10.160 --> 01:01:12.810 And you're literally digging a hole for yourself 1277 01:01:12.810 --> 01:01:13.990 when you're doing this. 1278 01:01:13.990 --> 01:01:15.521 You can just scrape it back. 1279 01:01:15.521 --> 01:01:17.530 And then you've got a completely fresh surface 1280 01:01:17.530 --> 01:01:18.490 to work with. 1281 01:01:18.490 --> 01:01:20.053 I'm doing this pretty roughly. 1282 01:01:21.320 --> 01:01:23.300 If I was being a bit more careful with this I'd get 1283 01:01:23.300 --> 01:01:28.300 it much more, much flatter, but yet just scrape it off, 1284 01:01:28.300 --> 01:01:31.870 and you can do that with part of something. 1285 01:01:31.870 --> 01:01:33.690 So you can have something that you're working 1286 01:01:33.690 --> 01:01:36.610 on and you don't want to scrap the entire thing away. 1287 01:01:36.610 --> 01:01:41.610 So, for example, I've got this little one here 1288 01:01:43.170 --> 01:01:47.520 that I did this morning of Mrs. Grey. 1289 01:01:47.520 --> 01:01:52.110 So I sort of started off with this and I can look 1290 01:01:52.110 --> 01:01:53.717 at it and sort of go, no, I think there's, 1291 01:01:53.717 --> 01:01:55.900 it's kind of okay. 1292 01:01:55.900 --> 01:01:58.173 The nose is not quite at the right angle. 1293 01:01:59.270 --> 01:02:00.370 I'm not really sure. 1294 01:02:00.370 --> 01:02:03.270 I might just scrape a bit of that back there, 1295 01:02:03.270 --> 01:02:08.270 change the angle of her nose and sort of scrape around it, 1296 01:02:08.340 --> 01:02:11.840 and then not really convinced about what's going 1297 01:02:11.840 --> 01:02:15.070 on with her hair. 1298 01:02:15.070 --> 01:02:18.564 So I might sort of scrape half of it off on this side 1299 01:02:18.564 --> 01:02:21.803 and leave part of the profile there. 1300 01:02:25.510 --> 01:02:30.510 So I'm not getting rid of it completely, 1301 01:02:31.450 --> 01:02:33.590 but I'm losing a little bit of it with the thought 1302 01:02:33.590 --> 01:02:36.960 that wasn't 100% happy with this composition. 1303 01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:40.600 So I'll just take a bit of it away and start again 1304 01:02:41.560 --> 01:02:42.700 or work back into it. 1305 01:02:42.700 --> 01:02:45.860 So you can scrape it all off. You can scrape part of it off. 1306 01:02:45.860 --> 01:02:47.310 This is a different kind of soap. 1307 01:02:47.310 --> 01:02:50.370 And I'm really noticing that it's a bit more waxy 1308 01:02:50.370 --> 01:02:51.640 than the other one I'm working with. 1309 01:02:51.640 --> 01:02:56.640 So it does, the surface does respond differently 1310 01:02:56.840 --> 01:03:01.340 to this scraping, but yeah, 1311 01:03:01.340 --> 01:03:04.040 because it's soap and because part of the reason 1312 01:03:04.040 --> 01:03:07.849 I'm doing the soap carving is out of the joy of doing 1313 01:03:07.849 --> 01:03:09.240 the soap carving. 1314 01:03:09.240 --> 01:03:10.890 If I don't end up with anything at the end, 1315 01:03:10.890 --> 01:03:12.573 it's not the end of the world. 1316 01:03:17.450 --> 01:03:21.070 So I think I'll look at a profile... 1317 01:03:21.070 --> 01:03:22.883 And before I do that, 1318 01:03:22.883 --> 01:03:24.710 I'm just gonna empty some of these soap flakes off my table. 1319 01:03:24.710 --> 01:03:26.640 I'm getting covered in soap here. 1320 01:03:26.640 --> 01:03:30.763 So I'll just tip this out. 1321 01:03:41.370 --> 01:03:45.020 And I'll just pop another piece that I made. 1322 01:03:45.020 --> 01:03:47.850 This is one that I prepared earlier. 1323 01:03:47.850 --> 01:03:52.630 So we were looking at Jane Grey and, no, sorry, 1324 01:03:52.630 --> 01:03:54.890 Jane Franklin and lady Grey. 1325 01:03:54.890 --> 01:03:58.270 And that sort of relationship between the sort 1326 01:03:58.270 --> 01:03:59.940 of the 2D and the 3D. 1327 01:03:59.940 --> 01:04:02.810 And this other subject that I've got sitting here 1328 01:04:02.810 --> 01:04:07.580 is Phillip Parker King, who I was really taken 1329 01:04:07.580 --> 01:04:11.580 by this portrait because he's just got such a great nose, 1330 01:04:11.580 --> 01:04:14.920 and working with someone who has really 1331 01:04:14.920 --> 01:04:18.530 distinctive features, it can mean that it has a very 1332 01:04:18.530 --> 01:04:20.947 kind of caricatured look about it. 1333 01:04:20.947 --> 01:04:24.250 But also if you're starting to work with portraiture, 1334 01:04:24.250 --> 01:04:26.900 it gives you something very straightforward 1335 01:04:26.900 --> 01:04:29.380 and obvious to depict. 1336 01:04:29.380 --> 01:04:31.860 It's sort of like this person has a nose 1337 01:04:31.860 --> 01:04:33.420 that's a very distinctive shape. 1338 01:04:33.420 --> 01:04:36.430 So I can really start with that profile. 1339 01:04:36.430 --> 01:04:39.096 And one of the things that can be helpful 1340 01:04:39.096 --> 01:04:42.750 if you're working from an image is even if you've got 1341 01:04:42.750 --> 01:04:46.273 a print out, which I've got here and I'll just stick 1342 01:04:46.273 --> 01:04:51.273 down on the table, is I will get a pencil 1343 01:04:51.408 --> 01:04:55.350 and I'll just trace around the person's profile, 1344 01:04:55.350 --> 01:04:59.070 around their nose and their brow. 1345 01:04:59.070 --> 01:05:03.860 So I can understand how that looks and see 1346 01:05:03.860 --> 01:05:05.260 that there's this shape. 1347 01:05:05.260 --> 01:05:07.480 And it goes in here and it comes out there. 1348 01:05:07.480 --> 01:05:11.390 And obviously in real life we don't have big black 1349 01:05:11.390 --> 01:05:13.480 lines around our facial features, 1350 01:05:13.480 --> 01:05:16.560 but working from an image to a carving, 1351 01:05:16.560 --> 01:05:20.050 this is just one little strategy to be able to see 1352 01:05:20.050 --> 01:05:21.446 clearly what that shape is. 1353 01:05:21.446 --> 01:05:25.527 And then to translate that into a carving. 1354 01:05:25.527 --> 01:05:28.336 And I haven't quite got the angle of his nose right there. 1355 01:05:28.336 --> 01:05:31.400 It's not exactly right, but it's sort of, 1356 01:05:31.400 --> 01:05:33.690 it's somewhere in the general vicinity. 1357 01:05:33.690 --> 01:05:36.520 And what you could potentially do 1358 01:05:36.520 --> 01:05:38.461 if you're really wanting to get that profile 1359 01:05:38.461 --> 01:05:42.474 accurate is you could photocopy this to the scale 1360 01:05:42.474 --> 01:05:44.684 of the piece of soap and even trace it onto a piece 1361 01:05:44.684 --> 01:05:48.720 of tracing paper and trace the profile onto the soap. 1362 01:05:48.720 --> 01:05:52.429 And then you would have that correct kind of outline 1363 01:05:52.429 --> 01:05:54.393 to work back from. 1364 01:05:55.290 --> 01:05:58.490 I clearly didn't do this in this case because his nose 1365 01:05:58.490 --> 01:06:00.400 is sort of sticking out a bit more and not kind 1366 01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:05.400 of going down as much, but I did use the printout. 1367 01:06:06.275 --> 01:06:07.653 And one of the things I did, 1368 01:06:07.653 --> 01:06:09.550 and I'm just gonna do it like this, 1369 01:06:09.550 --> 01:06:13.760 is I turned it upside down when I was copying 1370 01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:18.503 from the image, so that as I was making this profile, 1371 01:06:19.880 --> 01:06:22.650 and those of you who've done a lot of drawing would 1372 01:06:23.830 --> 01:06:25.170 be familiar with this technique, 1373 01:06:25.170 --> 01:06:27.970 if you turn something upside down, it just sort of, 1374 01:06:27.970 --> 01:06:30.110 it's like a circuit breaker in your brain. 1375 01:06:30.110 --> 01:06:34.720 Our brains absolutely love shortcuts. 1376 01:06:34.720 --> 01:06:37.740 And so we'll look at something and our brain will say, 1377 01:06:37.740 --> 01:06:38.630 that's a face. 1378 01:06:38.630 --> 01:06:40.010 I know what a face looks like. 1379 01:06:40.010 --> 01:06:41.830 And then our eyes will just disengage. 1380 01:06:41.830 --> 01:06:44.256 And we won't actually be observing very accurately. 1381 01:06:44.256 --> 01:06:47.700 And we'll draw the thing that our brain knows is a nose 1382 01:06:47.700 --> 01:06:48.730 or an eye. 1383 01:06:48.730 --> 01:06:52.520 That's often not an observational record, but is a symbol. 1384 01:06:52.520 --> 01:06:56.940 And so in the most extreme case things like emoticons 1385 01:06:56.940 --> 01:07:01.010 or, you know, a circle with two dots and a U 1386 01:07:01.010 --> 01:07:02.710 is a smiley face and we all recognise 1387 01:07:02.710 --> 01:07:03.890 that as a smiley face, 1388 01:07:03.890 --> 01:07:05.300 there's nothing in there that looks like 1389 01:07:05.300 --> 01:07:07.010 an actual human face. 1390 01:07:07.010 --> 01:07:09.880 And so our brains are great at creating 1391 01:07:09.880 --> 01:07:11.592 symbols and shortcuts. 1392 01:07:11.592 --> 01:07:15.560 And so one way to sort of get around our brains' habit 1393 01:07:15.560 --> 01:07:18.980 of short-cutting is to turn an image upside down 1394 01:07:18.980 --> 01:07:21.525 so that then, when I'm looking at the upside down image, 1395 01:07:21.525 --> 01:07:24.410 I'm noticing the lines 1396 01:07:24.410 --> 01:07:26.930 and the relationship between the angles. 1397 01:07:26.930 --> 01:07:29.580 I'm not thinking that's a nose or that's an eye, 1398 01:07:29.580 --> 01:07:30.940 or that's an ear. 1399 01:07:30.940 --> 01:07:33.185 And it's a very well-known strategy that a lot 1400 01:07:33.185 --> 01:07:34.447 of drawing teachers use, 1401 01:07:34.447 --> 01:07:39.447 and it does work quite well with this technique of doing, 1402 01:07:39.511 --> 01:07:42.020 making portraits, relief portraits. 1403 01:07:42.020 --> 01:07:45.680 And so I'm just scraping away 1404 01:07:45.680 --> 01:07:47.230 at this nose thinking I might be able 1405 01:07:47.230 --> 01:07:48.710 to get it a bit more, 1406 01:07:48.710 --> 01:07:51.323 get that angle a bit closer to how it should be. 1407 01:07:52.570 --> 01:07:54.950 Do you ever work from life, Ellis? 1408 01:07:54.950 --> 01:07:58.810 I haven't done... I've never done any carving from life. 1409 01:07:58.810 --> 01:08:01.810 I've done a lot of life drawing over the years, 1410 01:08:01.810 --> 01:08:06.660 but I've never tried to work from life in this form. 1411 01:08:06.660 --> 01:08:10.150 And I haven't done a lot of portraiture carving. 1412 01:08:10.150 --> 01:08:14.120 So, really, I've, when I've carved soap in the past 1413 01:08:14.120 --> 01:08:16.280 or carved wax in the past, 1414 01:08:16.280 --> 01:08:20.770 it's been more abstract or I did a whole series 1415 01:08:20.770 --> 01:08:22.560 when I was a student that were little kinds 1416 01:08:22.560 --> 01:08:24.520 of architectural spaces. 1417 01:08:24.520 --> 01:08:28.170 And so portraiture is not the kind of realm 1418 01:08:28.170 --> 01:08:29.690 of my own practise. 1419 01:08:29.690 --> 01:08:34.180 And this particular project came out of teaching 1420 01:08:34.180 --> 01:08:35.520 this course at art school, 1421 01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:38.481 that the title of the course was politics of bodies, and, 1422 01:08:38.481 --> 01:08:40.690 which was so great to teach last year 1423 01:08:40.690 --> 01:08:42.980 during COVID and in shutdown and on Zoom 1424 01:08:42.980 --> 01:08:44.350 with Black Lives Matter 1425 01:08:44.350 --> 01:08:46.130 and all this stuff going on around the world, 1426 01:08:46.130 --> 01:08:48.987 and all of this incredible stuff about spatial 1427 01:08:48.987 --> 01:08:52.997 social distancing and the way that being a body 1428 01:08:52.997 --> 01:08:57.200 in society was politicised in all sorts of ways, 1429 01:08:57.200 --> 01:08:59.640 or it became more obvious the kind of politics 1430 01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:03.780 of our own relationships, social relationships. 1431 01:09:03.780 --> 01:09:07.040 And so the portrait, 1432 01:09:07.040 --> 01:09:09.378 soap carving portrait exercise I devised 1433 01:09:09.378 --> 01:09:11.470 for my students when we were starting to think 1434 01:09:11.470 --> 01:09:14.830 about the relationship between portraiture and power, 1435 01:09:14.830 --> 01:09:18.560 and the kinds of incredible situations we're seeing 1436 01:09:18.560 --> 01:09:20.690 around the world where colonial statues were being 1437 01:09:20.690 --> 01:09:22.650 pulled down and destroyed and thrown 1438 01:09:22.650 --> 01:09:24.430 in rivers and replaced. 1439 01:09:24.430 --> 01:09:27.341 And so looking at these colonial figures 1440 01:09:27.341 --> 01:09:31.530 and thinking about who they were and that process 1441 01:09:31.530 --> 01:09:36.530 of kind of memorialising or creating documents, and the, 1442 01:09:37.010 --> 01:09:40.150 I didn't ask my students to reproduce colonial portraits. 1443 01:09:40.150 --> 01:09:41.690 I actually asked them to start to think 1444 01:09:41.690 --> 01:09:43.830 about creating self-portraits and thinking 1445 01:09:43.830 --> 01:09:47.570 about what the function of portraiture might be today 1446 01:09:47.570 --> 01:09:50.340 in a society that, particularly in Australia, where, 1447 01:09:50.340 --> 01:09:51.440 you know, we're still, 1448 01:09:52.380 --> 01:09:54.500 we're not really a post-colonial society, 1449 01:09:54.500 --> 01:09:56.929 we're still very much a colonial place 1450 01:09:56.929 --> 01:10:00.970 and we're still operating within a lot of these kinds 1451 01:10:00.970 --> 01:10:02.380 of colonising systems too. 1452 01:10:02.380 --> 01:10:05.270 So to think about what is the role of portraiture 1453 01:10:05.270 --> 01:10:06.770 is a really interesting question. 1454 01:10:06.770 --> 01:10:08.740 And I'm sure that you working here at the portrait 1455 01:10:08.740 --> 01:10:10.970 gallery are asking those questions all the time 1456 01:10:10.970 --> 01:10:13.000 and having these conversations at all sorts 1457 01:10:13.000 --> 01:10:14.250 of different levels. 1458 01:10:14.250 --> 01:10:16.630 So that's a very long answer to say that I don't 1459 01:10:16.630 --> 01:10:19.450 normally make portraits inside. (laughs) 1460 01:10:19.450 --> 01:10:23.240 And so I haven't tried doing it as a life exercise. 1461 01:10:23.240 --> 01:10:25.070 Although when I was an undergraduate student, 1462 01:10:25.070 --> 01:10:28.410 I certainly did sculpture, 1463 01:10:28.410 --> 01:10:31.630 life modelling sculpture in clay and working 1464 01:10:31.630 --> 01:10:36.400 from a life model and we did a full body clay 1465 01:10:36.400 --> 01:10:38.610 modelling exercise that went on for several weeks, 1466 01:10:38.610 --> 01:10:41.670 where we had the same model for two or three days a week, 1467 01:10:41.670 --> 01:10:43.570 and we'd come in and we would actually sit 1468 01:10:43.570 --> 01:10:47.000 there and do the whole modelling with our teacher, 1469 01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:49.480 Ante Dabro, who has a few sculptures around, 1470 01:10:49.480 --> 01:10:51.323 commissions around Canberra. 1471 01:10:52.990 --> 01:10:56.240 And something that was really interesting for me was then, 1472 01:10:56.240 --> 01:10:57.210 many years later, 1473 01:10:57.210 --> 01:11:01.010 I was a model for a portrait sculpting class. 1474 01:11:01.010 --> 01:11:05.640 So I got to sit and watch the students make 1475 01:11:05.640 --> 01:11:06.930 portraits of me. 1476 01:11:06.930 --> 01:11:11.552 And it was fascinating to see people modelling my face, 1477 01:11:11.552 --> 01:11:14.106 but every single person did it so differently. 1478 01:11:14.106 --> 01:11:18.030 And there were always some of their own features in there. 1479 01:11:18.030 --> 01:11:19.650 It's sort of this really... 1480 01:11:19.650 --> 01:11:22.170 And I think people who've done a lot of life drawing 1481 01:11:22.170 --> 01:11:26.300 see that too, that life drawing classes, you see people, 1482 01:11:26.300 --> 01:11:28.680 drawing their own body shape as well as the model. 1483 01:11:28.680 --> 01:11:29.770 It's often this combination, 1484 01:11:29.770 --> 01:11:32.100 like tall people stretch everyone and short people 1485 01:11:32.100 --> 01:11:34.180 shorten everyone, and, you know, 1486 01:11:34.180 --> 01:11:36.720 very thin people make people more angular. 1487 01:11:36.720 --> 01:11:38.840 And it's sort of like we know our own bodies 1488 01:11:38.840 --> 01:11:41.420 and we know ourselves so intimately that we apply 1489 01:11:41.420 --> 01:11:44.220 our experience of the world to the way 1490 01:11:44.220 --> 01:11:46.285 that we represent other bodies. 1491 01:11:46.285 --> 01:11:49.250 And this is a bit of a tangent, 1492 01:11:49.250 --> 01:11:53.250 but I would highly recommend to anyone who's willing 1493 01:11:53.250 --> 01:11:54.290 to take their clothes off, 1494 01:11:54.290 --> 01:11:56.900 that being a life model is a really fascinating 1495 01:11:56.900 --> 01:11:59.780 and affirming experience, because you see that no one 1496 01:11:59.780 --> 01:12:01.162 sees you the way you see yourself. 1497 01:12:01.162 --> 01:12:02.830 And so you shouldn't, 1498 01:12:02.830 --> 01:12:04.350 you don't need to worry about judging yourself 1499 01:12:04.350 --> 01:12:05.710 because no one sees you, 1500 01:12:05.710 --> 01:12:07.770 no one judges you the way you judge yourself, 1501 01:12:07.770 --> 01:12:09.918 and they see you in completely different ways according 1502 01:12:09.918 --> 01:12:12.050 to the way that they see themselves. 1503 01:12:12.050 --> 01:12:15.270 So I know it sounds like a bit of a stretch for a lot 1504 01:12:15.270 --> 01:12:17.730 of people, but life modelling is, 1505 01:12:17.730 --> 01:12:21.368 it's very interesting and educational experience. 1506 01:12:21.368 --> 01:12:23.970 I've gone off on an incredible tangent here 1507 01:12:23.970 --> 01:12:25.470 and I'm really curious to know 1508 01:12:25.470 --> 01:12:29.100 what our audience are 1509 01:12:29.100 --> 01:12:31.110 doing right now, because I'm wondering 1510 01:12:31.110 --> 01:12:33.440 if they've started looking at Mr. King and seeing 1511 01:12:33.440 --> 01:12:36.745 if I can create a profile. 1512 01:12:36.745 --> 01:12:39.370 If anyone's had a go at that yet, 1513 01:12:39.370 --> 01:12:41.500 or if you're working on the things you've already 1514 01:12:41.500 --> 01:12:42.980 been continuing, you're continuing 1515 01:12:42.980 --> 01:12:43.960 what you've been working away at? 1516 01:12:43.960 --> 01:12:46.780 So you could see a couple of people holding things 1517 01:12:46.780 --> 01:12:47.733 up over there. 1518 01:12:50.560 --> 01:12:54.120 Lots of beautiful concentrating faces. It's wonderful. 1519 01:12:54.120 --> 01:12:57.520 I love it, seeing those, that intense concentration. 1520 01:12:57.520 --> 01:12:58.800 There were a couple of people 1521 01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:00.470 who had other people 1522 01:13:00.470 --> 01:13:02.670 with them as they were creating, oh, Punch's 1523 01:13:02.670 --> 01:13:04.370 just turned her camera on. 1524 01:13:04.370 --> 01:13:06.992 They could potentially use each other as models... 1525 01:13:06.992 --> 01:13:08.030 Yes, they could. 1526 01:13:08.030 --> 01:13:11.863 Life modelling for soap carving perhaps. 1527 01:13:24.010 --> 01:13:26.410 Here we've got quite a few people working 1528 01:13:26.410 --> 01:13:27.823 steadily away there. 1529 01:13:30.690 --> 01:13:33.653 And curious if anyone's been working upside down. 1530 01:13:35.420 --> 01:13:37.710 We haven't, we've got the image the right way up 1531 01:13:37.710 --> 01:13:39.323 on the screen. We do, yes. 1532 01:13:47.070 --> 01:13:50.400 So it it's, I don't know if other people are having 1533 01:13:50.400 --> 01:13:52.550 the same situation, but because I wear reading glasses 1534 01:13:52.550 --> 01:13:54.450 I'm sort of switching backwards and forwards 1535 01:13:54.450 --> 01:13:57.160 between looking at this with glasses on glasses off, 1536 01:13:57.160 --> 01:14:01.700 and to keep remembering to put my glasses on so I can 1537 01:14:01.700 --> 01:14:03.150 see what I'm doing. 1538 01:14:03.150 --> 01:14:08.150 But I think it's always really interesting to look at... 1539 01:14:08.440 --> 01:14:09.730 And I was talking about this, 1540 01:14:09.730 --> 01:14:10.910 it kind of relates to that thing 1541 01:14:10.910 --> 01:14:15.009 before about our brains being really good at shortcuts 1542 01:14:15.009 --> 01:14:19.630 is sometimes when you look closely at an image 1543 01:14:19.630 --> 01:14:24.550 or an object, and I think it works really well 1544 01:14:24.550 --> 01:14:27.520 with Phillip King who's up on the screen is if you look 1545 01:14:27.520 --> 01:14:29.433 at the shape of his eyelid, 1546 01:14:30.560 --> 01:14:35.560 and what we know or experience about our own eyelids, 1547 01:14:36.160 --> 01:14:38.359 but then when I looked at when I was trying to carve 1548 01:14:38.359 --> 01:14:40.470 his eyelid and I kept getting it wrong, 1549 01:14:40.470 --> 01:14:42.020 and then I started looking at it, I thought, oh, 1550 01:14:42.020 --> 01:14:44.886 that's just basically a flat triangle. 1551 01:14:44.886 --> 01:14:48.630 And if I make a flat triangle rather than thinking 1552 01:14:48.630 --> 01:14:50.620 about that that's an eyelid, 1553 01:14:50.620 --> 01:14:54.410 and I really look at that just as the shape on its own... 1554 01:14:54.410 --> 01:14:58.100 As soon as I changed my thinking about what that form 1555 01:14:58.100 --> 01:15:01.010 was that I was trying to represent, I suddenly became 1556 01:15:01.010 --> 01:15:04.290 a lot more accurate with how I was getting that shape. 1557 01:15:04.290 --> 01:15:08.316 And also that the shape of his eyeball as well 1558 01:15:08.316 --> 01:15:10.163 as this kind of, 1559 01:15:13.510 --> 01:15:17.760 having this kind of a convex form that sits 1560 01:15:17.760 --> 01:15:21.060 underneath that eyelid and curves down. 1561 01:15:21.060 --> 01:15:26.060 And then this really lovely curve beneath his eyeball, 1562 01:15:27.700 --> 01:15:32.250 where you can sort of see the curve 1563 01:15:32.250 --> 01:15:35.100 of the eyeball underneath the eyelid and going 1564 01:15:35.100 --> 01:15:37.580 into his cheek and just really looking at the sort 1565 01:15:37.580 --> 01:15:39.360 of forms and the planes. 1566 01:15:39.360 --> 01:15:43.717 And another thing that is delightful 1567 01:15:43.717 --> 01:15:45.780 about carving with soap. 1568 01:15:45.780 --> 01:15:47.653 And I'll just put this back down. 1569 01:15:49.610 --> 01:15:51.940 See in my not entirely accurate 1570 01:15:53.060 --> 01:15:56.420 carving of Philip Parker King, is that because of the way 1571 01:15:56.420 --> 01:15:59.680 that the soap picks up light you don't need to do 1572 01:15:59.680 --> 01:16:04.200 a huge amount of carving to create a plane that gives 1573 01:16:04.200 --> 01:16:08.320 you a bit of a sense of the roundness of the cheek 1574 01:16:08.320 --> 01:16:12.870 or that little bit of his extra double chin under there, 1575 01:16:12.870 --> 01:16:17.589 that even just a tiny bit of a scrape her and there 1576 01:16:17.589 --> 01:16:20.750 changes the form and gives you that sort 1577 01:16:20.750 --> 01:16:24.600 of sense of the flesh, the fleshiness of the face. 1578 01:16:24.600 --> 01:16:26.327 And I was really impressed by that, 1579 01:16:26.327 --> 01:16:28.460 though I didn't need to go really 1580 01:16:28.460 --> 01:16:31.050 intensely three-dimensional with that carving, 1581 01:16:31.050 --> 01:16:32.970 I could just grab a tiny little bit away, 1582 01:16:32.970 --> 01:16:35.140 it would change the way the light hits it and it will 1583 01:16:35.140 --> 01:16:37.280 make it a bit more concave or a bit more convex. 1584 01:16:37.280 --> 01:16:39.640 And then it would give a sense of the sort 1585 01:16:39.640 --> 01:16:42.870 of movement over the surface of the skin. 1586 01:16:42.870 --> 01:16:46.891 And I think that that's something that I really 1587 01:16:46.891 --> 01:16:51.030 enjoyed playing around with, 1588 01:16:51.030 --> 01:16:56.030 both with Phillip Parker Kings chin and that sort of, 1589 01:16:56.150 --> 01:16:58.010 that fleshy bit underneath, 1590 01:16:58.010 --> 01:17:02.400 and also in this little one here, which is sort of, 1591 01:17:02.400 --> 01:17:06.175 I would say, inspired by Jane Franklin, but certainly 1592 01:17:06.175 --> 01:17:08.560 not an accurate representation, 1593 01:17:08.560 --> 01:17:11.120 but starting to kind of try and work out how to deal 1594 01:17:11.120 --> 01:17:16.120 with the form of the chin and the form underneath 1595 01:17:16.720 --> 01:17:19.951 her mouth by just really gently kind of carving 1596 01:17:19.951 --> 01:17:24.937 into that and getting that sense of where it protrudes 1597 01:17:24.937 --> 01:17:27.640 and catches the light. 1598 01:17:27.640 --> 01:17:29.510 And I think that's another thing that is always 1599 01:17:29.510 --> 01:17:32.490 incredibly difficult to do with... 1600 01:17:34.250 --> 01:17:36.300 Figurative sculptor is lips. 1601 01:17:36.300 --> 01:17:38.610 And you often see people trying to sculpt lips 1602 01:17:38.610 --> 01:17:40.506 where they sort of look like two sausages, 1603 01:17:40.506 --> 01:17:43.800 (laughs) and sort of an upper sausage and a lower sausage, 1604 01:17:43.800 --> 01:17:46.190 and sort of trying to really get that understanding 1605 01:17:46.190 --> 01:17:49.151 of that relationship between the nose and the mouth 1606 01:17:49.151 --> 01:17:52.394 and the way that the lips sort of cut in. 1607 01:17:52.394 --> 01:17:56.122 And I was really struggling with this one, 1608 01:17:56.122 --> 01:17:58.020 with the lips for quite a while, 1609 01:17:58.020 --> 01:18:00.937 until I made a similar discovery to the discovery 1610 01:18:00.937 --> 01:18:03.260 I made about the eyelid, which is, ah, 1611 01:18:03.260 --> 01:18:06.096 the bottom lip sort of sits underneath the upper lip. 1612 01:18:06.096 --> 01:18:09.867 And if I actually just carved out the bottom lip 1613 01:18:09.867 --> 01:18:12.180 and I pay attention to the bottom lip and I don't 1614 01:18:12.180 --> 01:18:16.029 think about the upper lip, the upper lip sort of forms as, 1615 01:18:16.029 --> 01:18:18.710 in result or in response to that. 1616 01:18:18.710 --> 01:18:21.610 So I concentrated on the bottom lip and then I could 1617 01:18:21.610 --> 01:18:24.010 just carve back to sort of shape the upper lip. 1618 01:18:24.010 --> 01:18:26.930 So this is little tricks that you can work 1619 01:18:26.930 --> 01:18:30.670 out just by questioning what you're seeing and trying 1620 01:18:30.670 --> 01:18:34.041 to move beyond those habits of how we think lips look 1621 01:18:34.041 --> 01:18:37.934 or how we think eyes and noses look to trying to see 1622 01:18:37.934 --> 01:18:40.490 it not as an eye or a nose or a mouth, 1623 01:18:40.490 --> 01:18:44.290 but as a form with shadow and light and trying 1624 01:18:44.290 --> 01:18:47.010 to follow where the shadows go or where the light goes. 1625 01:18:47.010 --> 01:18:51.000 And that helps to create that understanding 1626 01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:52.163 of the relationship. 1627 01:18:53.020 --> 01:18:54.880 I'm just gonna stop and have a sip of water. 1628 01:18:54.880 --> 01:18:56.420 One other question about whether you could use 1629 01:18:56.420 --> 01:19:00.885 soap sculptures as a mould to then cast on a longer 1630 01:19:00.885 --> 01:19:02.793 lasting material form? 1631 01:19:06.930 --> 01:19:08.980 I think you could definitely do that. 1632 01:19:08.980 --> 01:19:10.950 And there'd be a number of different ways 1633 01:19:10.950 --> 01:19:11.853 you could do that. 1634 01:19:13.160 --> 01:19:16.580 Probably the most straightforward would be with plaster. 1635 01:19:16.580 --> 01:19:19.690 And the nice thing about soap is plaster won't stick to it, 1636 01:19:19.690 --> 01:19:22.950 because the soap has this sort of waxy surface. 1637 01:19:22.950 --> 01:19:26.610 The one thing you'd need to be conscious of is to not 1638 01:19:26.610 --> 01:19:28.650 have very, very deep undercuts, 1639 01:19:28.650 --> 01:19:32.450 because if you made a little wall around your soap 1640 01:19:32.450 --> 01:19:34.030 block and poured plaster into it, 1641 01:19:34.030 --> 01:19:37.210 if you had very curved and undercut areas, 1642 01:19:37.210 --> 01:19:39.320 the plaster would go into that and then it would kind 1643 01:19:39.320 --> 01:19:40.283 of pull out. 1644 01:19:41.193 --> 01:19:45.560 But one thing a lot of people who do a lot of casting 1645 01:19:45.560 --> 01:19:48.410 will do if they've got a form that has those kinds 1646 01:19:48.410 --> 01:19:51.860 of undercuts in it is that they might fill 1647 01:19:51.860 --> 01:19:53.970 those in with a little bit of clay or something, 1648 01:19:53.970 --> 01:19:56.760 something that can be removed so you can make 1649 01:19:56.760 --> 01:20:00.240 your cast and then you can carve those undercuts back 1650 01:20:00.240 --> 01:20:01.626 in later on. 1651 01:20:01.626 --> 01:20:03.700 You could potentially use something like 1652 01:20:03.700 --> 01:20:05.563 Silicon or latex as well. 1653 01:20:05.563 --> 01:20:08.390 I don't see why you couldn't use one of those. 1654 01:20:08.390 --> 01:20:11.060 And if you use latex, for example, 1655 01:20:11.060 --> 01:20:15.630 you would paint a couple of layers of latex on, 1656 01:20:15.630 --> 01:20:17.870 and that would get the detail of Silicon. 1657 01:20:17.870 --> 01:20:19.980 And then you could put plaster over the top 1658 01:20:19.980 --> 01:20:22.720 which would give you the support structure. 1659 01:20:22.720 --> 01:20:26.720 So that then when you turn it inside, well, 1660 01:20:26.720 --> 01:20:28.160 when you take it off, 1661 01:20:28.160 --> 01:20:31.320 then you've got a soft mould that you could pour 1662 01:20:31.320 --> 01:20:34.320 plaster into, which means that you could peel 1663 01:20:34.320 --> 01:20:37.090 that soft mould off and you'd have 1664 01:20:39.007 --> 01:20:40.840 your positive coming out. 1665 01:20:40.840 --> 01:20:43.350 And so the soft mould then where you've got 1666 01:20:43.350 --> 01:20:45.900 the undercuts you can just kind of peel it away or pull 1667 01:20:45.900 --> 01:20:48.360 it out from those undercut sections. 1668 01:20:48.360 --> 01:20:52.320 So I'm, I haven't done much casting and it's been 1669 01:20:52.320 --> 01:20:54.400 a while since I've done any casting, 1670 01:20:54.400 --> 01:20:58.300 but I would certainly think it would be very possible 1671 01:20:58.300 --> 01:21:00.270 to cast, and that there would be a number 1672 01:21:00.270 --> 01:21:02.002 of different ways you could potentially, 1673 01:21:02.002 --> 01:21:04.040 different materials you could potentially use. 1674 01:21:04.040 --> 01:21:07.956 So a lot of people use that dental kind of gel stuff. 1675 01:21:07.956 --> 01:21:10.810 I think that would be a really easy medium also 1676 01:21:10.810 --> 01:21:12.051 to work with. 1677 01:21:12.051 --> 01:21:14.320 And if you use that to create your negative then 1678 01:21:14.320 --> 01:21:17.340 you could pour plaster or even wax into the positive 1679 01:21:17.340 --> 01:21:19.250 and make a positive wax. 1680 01:21:19.250 --> 01:21:23.360 And some of the objects in your collection are cast wax. 1681 01:21:23.360 --> 01:21:24.730 So they would have been... 1682 01:21:24.730 --> 01:21:28.360 I speculate they would have been made in clay first. 1683 01:21:28.360 --> 01:21:30.180 Then they would have been cast in plaster and then 1684 01:21:30.180 --> 01:21:34.470 they would have poured the molten wax 1685 01:21:34.470 --> 01:21:39.470 into the plaster mould and used a sort of wax plaster combo, 1686 01:21:40.420 --> 01:21:41.680 because I don't, 1687 01:21:41.680 --> 01:21:45.790 I suspect they didn't have dental gel in 1800s. 1688 01:21:45.790 --> 01:21:50.170 So wax and plaster and clay I think would be 1689 01:21:50.170 --> 01:21:52.630 the main materials that they were working backwards 1690 01:21:52.630 --> 01:21:53.528 and forwards between. 1691 01:21:53.528 --> 01:21:57.400 Possibly there might have been originals that were 1692 01:21:57.400 --> 01:21:59.360 carved in something like marble 1693 01:21:59.360 --> 01:22:01.480 and then reproductions made. 1694 01:22:01.480 --> 01:22:04.596 A lot of colonial sculptors were making multiples 1695 01:22:04.596 --> 01:22:07.310 and selling them as a way of making a living. 1696 01:22:07.310 --> 01:22:11.130 So there's very famous sculptures 1697 01:22:11.130 --> 01:22:13.230 that the portrait gallery own copies of, 1698 01:22:13.230 --> 01:22:15.220 and also the national gallery have of, 1699 01:22:15.220 --> 01:22:19.730 the Tasmanian's Truganini and Moretti were made 1700 01:22:19.730 --> 01:22:21.580 as multiples and sold. 1701 01:22:21.580 --> 01:22:25.240 And in fact, Phillip Parker King was sculpted 1702 01:22:25.240 --> 01:22:28.140 by Thomas Wallner who was a pre-Raphaelite artist 1703 01:22:28.140 --> 01:22:30.420 who came out to Australia in the gold rush, 1704 01:22:30.420 --> 01:22:33.070 hoping to make his fortune in gold. 1705 01:22:33.070 --> 01:22:35.770 And instead he made a living making portraits, 1706 01:22:35.770 --> 01:22:39.500 because he didn't find gold and make his fortune. 1707 01:22:39.500 --> 01:22:41.240 And I think he did end up going back 1708 01:22:41.240 --> 01:22:45.150 to the UK, and anyone who travelled to Canberra to see 1709 01:22:45.150 --> 01:22:46.790 the pre-Raphaelite exhibition at the national 1710 01:22:46.790 --> 01:22:48.629 gallery would have seen some of his paintings 1711 01:22:48.629 --> 01:22:50.010 in that exhibition. 1712 01:22:50.010 --> 01:22:51.820 So he was one of the, 1713 01:22:51.820 --> 01:22:53.170 I think one of the founding members 1714 01:22:53.170 --> 01:22:54.250 of the pre-Raphaelite brotherhood, 1715 01:22:54.250 --> 01:22:56.970 I can't remember the exact story. 1716 01:22:56.970 --> 01:22:59.455 So in his case, 1717 01:22:59.455 --> 01:23:03.500 the portraiture work was really his bread and butter 1718 01:23:03.500 --> 01:23:07.280 work and that, making a living, making, 1719 01:23:07.280 --> 01:23:12.260 working to commission, people commissioning portraits, 1720 01:23:12.260 --> 01:23:13.910 which is pretty much the way, you know, 1721 01:23:13.910 --> 01:23:17.000 portraiture continues to be treated today. 1722 01:23:17.000 --> 01:23:18.710 Today the National Portrait Gallery commissions 1723 01:23:18.710 --> 01:23:20.570 portraits of well-known Australians in all sorts 1724 01:23:20.570 --> 01:23:23.540 of different media, our parliamentarians get 1725 01:23:23.540 --> 01:23:24.630 their portraits painted. 1726 01:23:24.630 --> 01:23:29.380 So portrait painters have this kind of income stream 1727 01:23:29.380 --> 01:23:31.930 that comes from that kind of commissioned work, 1728 01:23:31.930 --> 01:23:34.920 which is quite different to a lot of other 1729 01:23:34.920 --> 01:23:37.010 contemporary artists, painters, sculptors, 1730 01:23:37.010 --> 01:23:38.470 who are sort of working on, 1731 01:23:38.470 --> 01:23:40.990 making bodies of work and then trying to find 1732 01:23:40.990 --> 01:23:42.610 an audience or someone to sell it. 1733 01:23:42.610 --> 01:23:46.640 Portraiture is often created as a commission. 1734 01:23:46.640 --> 01:23:48.447 It's the person coming to the artists and saying 1735 01:23:48.447 --> 01:23:50.435 we want you to make this, or I need that. 1736 01:23:50.435 --> 01:23:54.285 And artists that paint portraits that are not commissions, 1737 01:23:54.285 --> 01:23:56.500 it's incredibly difficult work to sell, 1738 01:23:56.500 --> 01:23:58.670 because it's some particular person. 1739 01:23:58.670 --> 01:24:01.710 And so there's not really a market for people 1740 01:24:01.710 --> 01:24:04.530 to collect portraiture unless they have some kind 1741 01:24:04.530 --> 01:24:07.382 of a connection to the person who the portrait has 1742 01:24:07.382 --> 01:24:09.560 been created of. 1743 01:24:09.560 --> 01:24:10.393 So I think that's very... 1744 01:24:10.393 --> 01:24:12.190 I'd be really interested to know if there are people 1745 01:24:12.190 --> 01:24:13.210 out there collecting portraits, 1746 01:24:13.210 --> 01:24:15.020 just collecting portraits because they think 1747 01:24:15.020 --> 01:24:16.230 portraits are interesting. 1748 01:24:16.230 --> 01:24:17.580 So maybe we could, 1749 01:24:17.580 --> 01:24:20.363 someone could let us know if they have 1750 01:24:20.363 --> 01:24:22.070 active portrait collecting. 1751 01:24:22.070 --> 01:24:23.760 Yeah. Yeah. 1752 01:24:23.760 --> 01:24:26.930 And I also sat for a portrait painting class 1753 01:24:26.930 --> 01:24:27.810 here a couple of years 1754 01:24:27.810 --> 01:24:31.100 ago and watching that process of painting portraits 1755 01:24:31.100 --> 01:24:32.650 is really fascinating too. 1756 01:24:32.650 --> 01:24:35.240 So, and it's very weird when you see a class full 1757 01:24:35.240 --> 01:24:37.208 of not entirely accurate paintings. 1758 01:24:37.208 --> 01:24:42.208 (laughs) It can be quite confronting at times, 1759 01:24:44.560 --> 01:24:47.040 but, yeah, I'm wondering, 1760 01:24:47.040 --> 01:24:48.660 we've still got quite a lot of time 1761 01:24:48.660 --> 01:24:52.152 left and I wanna make sure that people who are 1762 01:24:52.152 --> 01:24:55.758 there have enough information to go on with, 1763 01:24:55.758 --> 01:24:58.400 because I know that this is a very mesmerising thing 1764 01:24:58.400 --> 01:25:01.020 and I just like to give people a chance to do 1765 01:25:01.020 --> 01:25:02.960 whatever they're doing, but also if they're wanting 1766 01:25:02.960 --> 01:25:06.159 more information or techniques or feedback or prompts 1767 01:25:06.159 --> 01:25:11.159 or a new thing to look at and to work from, with, 1768 01:25:12.330 --> 01:25:14.390 we could look at some more close-ups or we could 1769 01:25:14.390 --> 01:25:16.980 just continue on with what we've got up on the screen. 1770 01:25:16.980 --> 01:25:18.686 Sort of see how people are tracking. 1771 01:25:18.686 --> 01:25:21.800 We did have a question about whether you would 1772 01:25:21.800 --> 01:25:24.643 consider using the soap carving as a stamp. 1773 01:25:25.784 --> 01:25:29.830 Ooh, I don't know. 1774 01:25:29.830 --> 01:25:32.750 I don't know how it would work because if something like 1775 01:25:32.750 --> 01:25:34.745 a rubber stamp, there's flexibility, 1776 01:25:34.745 --> 01:25:39.170 so that when you stamp, what it, if you're using ink, 1777 01:25:39.170 --> 01:25:41.930 you've got something that will meet the surface 1778 01:25:41.930 --> 01:25:45.800 and connect with it, whereas the soap is a hard surface, 1779 01:25:45.800 --> 01:25:49.542 but you could, I guess if you think of it the way 1780 01:25:49.542 --> 01:25:53.110 that a seal works, like, you know, 1781 01:25:53.110 --> 01:25:56.640 a seal ring or a pendant that you put in sealing wax 1782 01:25:56.640 --> 01:26:01.640 and you create a kind of a marker or a stamp that way, 1783 01:26:02.710 --> 01:26:04.300 or the those kinds 1784 01:26:04.300 --> 01:26:09.300 of the stamps that the little 1785 01:26:10.390 --> 01:26:11.970 blocks that ceramicists use, 1786 01:26:11.970 --> 01:26:14.110 where they've got a piece of timber or something 1787 01:26:14.110 --> 01:26:15.850 that they've carved into and they stamp 1788 01:26:15.850 --> 01:26:18.040 it into the bottom of their clay objects. 1789 01:26:18.040 --> 01:26:21.420 So you could, I guess, use carved soap 1790 01:26:21.420 --> 01:26:25.980 to make some kind of an indent into clay 1791 01:26:25.980 --> 01:26:28.890 or a softer substance that would work like a stamp. 1792 01:26:28.890 --> 01:26:30.290 So yeah... 1793 01:26:30.290 --> 01:26:34.080 I don't know if it would work in the way 1794 01:26:34.080 --> 01:26:37.770 that you could work with like monoprints, 1795 01:26:37.770 --> 01:26:39.604 where if you put some ink or something on the surface 1796 01:26:39.604 --> 01:26:41.880 and then you got a soft paper, 1797 01:26:41.880 --> 01:26:44.400 like rice paper and kind of rubbed it over the surface, 1798 01:26:44.400 --> 01:26:46.890 if that would give you anything or if it wouldn't 1799 01:26:46.890 --> 01:26:49.880 really work, because mostly with printmaking surfaces, 1800 01:26:49.880 --> 01:26:53.266 they're very, very flat, and this is not a flat surface. 1801 01:26:53.266 --> 01:26:56.273 I guess that's where it would work is if you had 1802 01:26:56.273 --> 01:26:58.091 a piece of soap, 1803 01:26:58.091 --> 01:27:01.416 a flat surface and you carved 1804 01:27:01.416 --> 01:27:05.100 into it without creating that more moulded sort 1805 01:27:05.100 --> 01:27:06.040 of three-dimensional form. 1806 01:27:06.040 --> 01:27:07.470 Like, in fact, this, 1807 01:27:07.470 --> 01:27:10.370 the brand that's been stamped into the soap. 1808 01:27:10.370 --> 01:27:14.790 If I rolled ink across this and stamped it, I would get 1809 01:27:14.790 --> 01:27:17.730 a negative where the text has been carved in. 1810 01:27:17.730 --> 01:27:21.483 So that would work as a kind of stamp. Hmm. 1811 01:27:23.400 --> 01:27:25.970 Somebody else, I was about to say Galaxy, 1812 01:27:25.970 --> 01:27:28.543 just asked, but it's the name of their tablet. 1813 01:27:28.543 --> 01:27:30.340 (both laugh) 1814 01:27:30.340 --> 01:27:32.884 Sorry, sorry, whoever owns the Galaxy tablet. 1815 01:27:32.884 --> 01:27:35.620 They were wondering how you get such a lovely sheen 1816 01:27:35.620 --> 01:27:36.880 on the finished work. 1817 01:27:36.880 --> 01:27:37.713 Mm. 1818 01:27:39.840 --> 01:27:41.930 I don't do anything special. 1819 01:27:41.930 --> 01:27:45.250 It's really just working with these tools 1820 01:27:45.250 --> 01:27:48.990 and it's just scraping very lightly. 1821 01:27:48.990 --> 01:27:53.990 So that it's quite a smooth surface 1822 01:27:55.260 --> 01:27:56.600 and this is quite 1823 01:27:56.600 --> 01:27:59.530 a sharp edge, but I think even with a less sharp edge, 1824 01:27:59.530 --> 01:28:02.840 it's just that very, very light scraping off 1825 01:28:02.840 --> 01:28:04.610 over the surface. 1826 01:28:04.610 --> 01:28:08.570 But the soap itself just has inherently has that kind 1827 01:28:08.570 --> 01:28:10.470 of shiny quality about it. 1828 01:28:10.470 --> 01:28:12.130 And if you look at, 1829 01:28:12.130 --> 01:28:15.253 these are two different pieces of soap side to side, 1830 01:28:17.350 --> 01:28:21.430 the lighter or the whiter one is a slightly more 1831 01:28:21.430 --> 01:28:26.270 powdery texture and the darker one is a bit more waxy. 1832 01:28:26.270 --> 01:28:28.110 So they have, they sort of take the light 1833 01:28:28.110 --> 01:28:29.520 in a slightly different way, 1834 01:28:29.520 --> 01:28:32.770 but it's really just carving very gently like 1835 01:28:32.770 --> 01:28:36.269 this or scraping very gently over the surface to take 1836 01:28:36.269 --> 01:28:41.269 out some of those more bumpy ridged areas. 1837 01:28:41.500 --> 01:28:44.880 That's what creates the smooth surface there. 1838 01:28:44.880 --> 01:28:48.590 So I'm not kind of wetting it 1839 01:28:48.590 --> 01:28:53.210 or burnishing it, 1840 01:28:53.210 --> 01:28:57.360 although you could potentially burnish the way people 1841 01:28:57.360 --> 01:29:01.100 work with burnishing ceramics as well. 1842 01:29:01.100 --> 01:29:03.273 And I'm just, these tools are a bit, 1843 01:29:03.273 --> 01:29:05.820 they're still got bits of remnant wax on them 1844 01:29:05.820 --> 01:29:06.653 from working with wax. 1845 01:29:06.653 --> 01:29:08.290 But if I took that curved, 1846 01:29:08.290 --> 01:29:11.303 the curved part and sort of scraped it, 1847 01:29:12.290 --> 01:29:14.110 that would give a different kind of surface 1848 01:29:14.110 --> 01:29:16.030 too, that might burnish it a little bit. 1849 01:29:16.030 --> 01:29:17.380 I haven't actually ever tried this. 1850 01:29:17.380 --> 01:29:20.370 So it'd be interesting to sort of see what happens 1851 01:29:20.370 --> 01:29:22.830 if that makes it a smoother surface. 1852 01:29:22.830 --> 01:29:25.813 It does appear to be burnishing it a little bit. 1853 01:29:28.040 --> 01:29:31.800 But yeah, the surfaces of these are purely created 1854 01:29:31.800 --> 01:29:34.120 with that scraping of this, 1855 01:29:34.120 --> 01:29:35.710 the flat blade or the curved blade. 1856 01:29:35.710 --> 01:29:36.543 And that's it. 1857 01:29:40.033 --> 01:29:44.530 Nice to see people working still all the way over there. 1858 01:29:44.530 --> 01:29:46.150 I've had a couple of people who've had to leave 1859 01:29:46.150 --> 01:29:48.130 but they're gonna go on with it. 1860 01:29:48.130 --> 01:29:48.963 Oh, good. 1861 01:29:48.963 --> 01:29:51.503 Thank you very much for the tips. 1862 01:30:00.070 --> 01:30:02.462 Are there any other questions from the Facebook team 1863 01:30:02.462 --> 01:30:04.390 or from Zoom? 1864 01:30:04.390 --> 01:30:05.410 Please let us know. 1865 01:30:25.100 --> 01:30:29.120 So I would very much enjoy seeing the results 1866 01:30:29.120 --> 01:30:31.540 of what people make today and even afterwards, you know, 1867 01:30:31.540 --> 01:30:34.620 if they share things, 1868 01:30:34.620 --> 01:30:37.619 I guess they can share things by a Facebook or tag 1869 01:30:37.619 --> 01:30:39.113 the portrait gallery on Instagram. 1870 01:30:39.113 --> 01:30:42.360 It'd be really interesting to see what people have come up 1871 01:30:42.360 --> 01:30:43.840 with after today's session. 1872 01:30:43.840 --> 01:30:45.002 Absolutely. 1873 01:30:45.002 --> 01:30:46.900 And if anyone's a little bit shy and doesn't wanna send 1874 01:30:46.900 --> 01:30:49.380 it out to the social media land, 1875 01:30:49.380 --> 01:30:54.380 you can always email us through bookings@mpg.gov.edu 1876 01:30:54.520 --> 01:30:57.210 and we can share your creations with Ellis afterwards. 1877 01:30:57.210 --> 01:31:00.153 Oh, that would be fantastic. I'd love to see what happens. 1878 01:31:04.020 --> 01:31:07.780 I think one of the key aspects or elements 1879 01:31:07.780 --> 01:31:11.303 about portraiture in any form, 1880 01:31:11.303 --> 01:31:13.990 drawing, carving, painting is just that sort 1881 01:31:13.990 --> 01:31:16.500 of continuously going back and looking at it again 1882 01:31:16.500 --> 01:31:19.190 and correcting and sort of like, ah, 1883 01:31:19.190 --> 01:31:20.960 that the angle's not quite right. 1884 01:31:20.960 --> 01:31:24.520 I'm just gonna shift the angle of the nose or the face's 1885 01:31:24.520 --> 01:31:26.160 a bit longer than it needs to be. 1886 01:31:26.160 --> 01:31:29.130 So I'm gonna come back in and chop a bit off the bottom 1887 01:31:29.130 --> 01:31:31.030 of the chin or I'm gonna 1888 01:31:31.030 --> 01:31:34.290 make the throat a bit more slopey. 1889 01:31:34.290 --> 01:31:36.540 So it's just that constantly backwards and forwards 1890 01:31:36.540 --> 01:31:38.570 of kind of critically analysing 1891 01:31:38.570 --> 01:31:42.510 what's there and correcting it and working with it. 1892 01:31:42.510 --> 01:31:47.510 And then slowly over time getting kind of a closer 1893 01:31:48.321 --> 01:31:51.070 and closer representation. 1894 01:31:51.070 --> 01:31:53.596 And that can be really satisfying, 1895 01:31:53.596 --> 01:31:58.596 but equally you can just look at the original image 1896 01:31:59.283 --> 01:32:01.440 or the original work that you're looking 1897 01:32:01.440 --> 01:32:02.603 at as a starting point. 1898 01:32:02.603 --> 01:32:07.603 And then from there play with it, get creative, 1899 01:32:08.790 --> 01:32:10.090 do something else. 1900 01:32:10.090 --> 01:32:13.210 So you can go down that path of really honing 1901 01:32:13.210 --> 01:32:14.890 those representational skills. 1902 01:32:14.890 --> 01:32:17.966 You can also go down that path of what, 1903 01:32:17.966 --> 01:32:19.090 where can I take this now? 1904 01:32:19.090 --> 01:32:20.430 What else could I do with it? 1905 01:32:20.430 --> 01:32:23.370 And use it just as a starting point and a point 1906 01:32:23.370 --> 01:32:27.973 of inspiration and then continuing on. 1907 01:32:31.710 --> 01:32:34.940 And I've just, I've gone back to Lady Grey 1908 01:32:34.940 --> 01:32:37.430 who I started on this morning, 1909 01:32:37.430 --> 01:32:42.430 and I'm making 1910 01:32:42.730 --> 01:32:44.400 her nose much bigger and pointier 1911 01:32:44.400 --> 01:32:45.420 than it actually is. 1912 01:32:45.420 --> 01:32:48.363 So I might just kind of try and correct that. 1913 01:32:52.000 --> 01:32:53.650 And there's always that risk that, you know, 1914 01:32:53.650 --> 01:32:55.790 if you're starting to take something off that you take 1915 01:32:55.790 --> 01:32:57.620 too much off and then you're back to square one. 1916 01:32:57.620 --> 01:33:01.620 So we might be... (laughs) 1917 01:33:03.730 --> 01:33:07.970 I was telling the group that I was working 1918 01:33:07.970 --> 01:33:09.640 with this morning about someone that I went 1919 01:33:09.640 --> 01:33:11.290 to art school with. 1920 01:33:11.290 --> 01:33:13.290 And that's the other thing that I got to do 1921 01:33:13.290 --> 01:33:15.290 in my very traditional sculpture training at art 1922 01:33:15.290 --> 01:33:17.491 school was carving in marble, 1923 01:33:17.491 --> 01:33:21.780 and our first exercise carving in marble, 1924 01:33:21.780 --> 01:33:26.126 we were given metal chisels and big hammers 1925 01:33:26.126 --> 01:33:29.890 and we spent weeks bashing away at these big pieces 1926 01:33:29.890 --> 01:33:32.634 of marble and chipping tiny little bits off the surface. 1927 01:33:32.634 --> 01:33:35.730 And once we'd tortured ourselves like that for a while, 1928 01:33:35.730 --> 01:33:37.990 then we were allowed to move on to the pneumatic power, 1929 01:33:37.990 --> 01:33:40.230 air powered power tools, where it was like 1930 01:33:44.770 --> 01:33:47.030 sort of a hammer drill and you could go dah-dah-dah 1931 01:33:47.030 --> 01:33:47.897 and you can hammer into it. 1932 01:33:47.897 --> 01:33:51.430 But one of the people in my sculpture class decided 1933 01:33:51.430 --> 01:33:55.780 that rather than get the precious white smallish chunk 1934 01:33:55.780 --> 01:33:58.373 of marble, that they would work with sandstone 1935 01:33:58.373 --> 01:34:01.060 because it's much faster and you can learn 1936 01:34:01.060 --> 01:34:02.330 more more quickly. 1937 01:34:02.330 --> 01:34:03.840 So they had a piece of sand stone. 1938 01:34:03.840 --> 01:34:05.515 That was a huge big piece, 1939 01:34:05.515 --> 01:34:08.140 while all of us with our smaller bits of marble, 1940 01:34:08.140 --> 01:34:10.110 and they chipped away, and chipped away, and chipped away 1941 01:34:10.110 --> 01:34:10.943 at the sandstone. 1942 01:34:10.943 --> 01:34:12.620 And then they chipped it in half and they had two 1943 01:34:12.620 --> 01:34:14.247 pieces and they chipped away, chipped away, 1944 01:34:14.247 --> 01:34:16.390 and they made all these different shapes at the end 1945 01:34:16.390 --> 01:34:18.240 of the semester, they had a pile of rubble 1946 01:34:18.240 --> 01:34:19.988 and nothing else. 1947 01:34:19.988 --> 01:34:22.510 I think they learnt more than anyone else 1948 01:34:22.510 --> 01:34:26.320 in the class about carving, but I've seen, 1949 01:34:26.320 --> 01:34:28.650 I've done the same thing myself with the soaps. 1950 01:34:28.650 --> 01:34:30.270 I'll just take a bit off here and take a bit off 1951 01:34:30.270 --> 01:34:31.103 there and take a bit off here. 1952 01:34:31.103 --> 01:34:33.971 And all of a sudden I've taken way too much off 1953 01:34:33.971 --> 01:34:36.879 where I've dug a huge big hole for myself, 1954 01:34:36.879 --> 01:34:40.030 but in the process of doing that, it's not, 1955 01:34:40.030 --> 01:34:41.610 I don't think that's a loss, 1956 01:34:41.610 --> 01:34:46.610 because that constantly working, 1957 01:34:47.030 --> 01:34:49.100 you're storing all of that information. 1958 01:34:49.100 --> 01:34:50.990 And then the next time you make something you can 1959 01:34:50.990 --> 01:34:52.310 apply what you've learnt. 1960 01:34:52.310 --> 01:34:55.400 So if you end up with nothing at the end 1961 01:34:55.400 --> 01:34:57.740 of today's session, you still will have learnt 1962 01:34:57.740 --> 01:34:59.900 some skills or you've made some observations 1963 01:34:59.900 --> 01:35:01.720 that you can apply to the next thing you make. 1964 01:35:01.720 --> 01:35:03.960 And it doesn't mean that you'll necessarily always end 1965 01:35:03.960 --> 01:35:05.850 up with a pile of rubble at the end, 1966 01:35:05.850 --> 01:35:09.893 you can move on to having an object at the end rather 1967 01:35:09.893 --> 01:35:12.870 than a beautiful pile of soap flakes which you can use 1968 01:35:12.870 --> 01:35:14.223 to wash your clothes. 1969 01:35:14.223 --> 01:35:18.253 So it's not a complete loss. (laughs) 1970 01:35:27.560 --> 01:35:29.850 One of the things that's particularly tricky too 1971 01:35:29.850 --> 01:35:34.850 about some of these really gorgeous images is that, 1972 01:35:35.170 --> 01:35:38.928 particularly Lady Grey, the photographs of her, 1973 01:35:38.928 --> 01:35:42.203 because she's a low relief made out of wax, 1974 01:35:42.203 --> 01:35:44.520 it's quite hard to see her features. 1975 01:35:44.520 --> 01:35:46.720 So that this is another one where I'll just put 1976 01:35:46.720 --> 01:35:50.139 this down on the table where I've actually got 1977 01:35:50.139 --> 01:35:53.140 a pencil and drawn around her profile, 1978 01:35:53.140 --> 01:35:55.660 just so I can see that relationship between her nose 1979 01:35:55.660 --> 01:35:57.642 and her mouth and her chin. 1980 01:35:57.642 --> 01:36:01.053 That's quite difficult to read looking at the image 1981 01:36:01.053 --> 01:36:03.863 as it's printed out. 1982 01:36:05.060 --> 01:36:09.410 So that's very helpful in just kind of getting a sense 1983 01:36:09.410 --> 01:36:12.590 of the composition or the shape. 1984 01:36:12.590 --> 01:36:15.024 And in fact, now that I've had that thought 1985 01:36:15.024 --> 01:36:17.920 that I could just print out a piece at the scale 1986 01:36:17.920 --> 01:36:19.230 of the piece of soap and trace it, 1987 01:36:19.230 --> 01:36:20.630 I'm gonna give that a try too, 1988 01:36:20.630 --> 01:36:25.630 because some people might see that a bit as cheating, 1989 01:36:26.860 --> 01:36:28.463 but I think it's also, 1990 01:36:30.465 --> 01:36:34.409 there's really no problem with just finding 1991 01:36:34.409 --> 01:36:37.990 a good technique to get the results you want, 1992 01:36:37.990 --> 01:36:42.630 even if that means you're not doing that kind 1993 01:36:42.630 --> 01:36:46.510 of accurate sort of rendering from one thing to the other, 1994 01:36:46.510 --> 01:36:49.260 but you're tracing it or you're creating a copy of it. 1995 01:36:49.260 --> 01:36:53.290 I think any technique that is useful to get 1996 01:36:53.290 --> 01:36:55.460 the results you want is worth giving a go. 1997 01:36:55.460 --> 01:36:58.993 it's not a case of it's cheating if you traced it. 1998 01:37:03.960 --> 01:37:04.960 And it's always, I think, 1999 01:37:04.960 --> 01:37:09.230 quite fascinating to see how different artists do 2000 01:37:09.230 --> 01:37:13.722 generate their work and when they might take photos 2001 01:37:13.722 --> 01:37:16.214 and work from photographs or when they might 2002 01:37:16.214 --> 01:37:19.330 use projections and trace things onto projections, 2003 01:37:19.330 --> 01:37:21.640 because there's all sorts of technologies 2004 01:37:21.640 --> 01:37:26.190 and techniques we can use to get the results we wanna get. 2005 01:37:26.190 --> 01:37:29.260 And I think it's worth making use of any of them 2006 01:37:29.260 --> 01:37:33.383 that are worth, that give you those results. 2007 01:38:02.960 --> 01:38:04.910 So how are people going? 2008 01:38:04.910 --> 01:38:08.020 Does anyone wanna show us what they're working on? 2009 01:38:08.020 --> 01:38:12.000 Any work in progress happening up there? I can see one. 2010 01:38:12.000 --> 01:38:16.203 Oh, ah, nice! That's looking fantastic. 2011 01:38:18.550 --> 01:38:23.460 Get a really clear look at that face. 2012 01:38:23.460 --> 01:38:24.293 Yeah. 2013 01:38:31.940 --> 01:38:36.870 I would, I think I'd love to make a video just of lots 2014 01:38:36.870 --> 01:38:40.000 of people working because it's just it's very 2015 01:38:40.000 --> 01:38:43.230 mesmerising to watch other people concentrating, isn't it? 2016 01:38:43.230 --> 01:38:45.080 Absolutely. There you go. 2017 01:38:47.770 --> 01:38:49.770 Oh, look at that. 2018 01:38:49.770 --> 01:38:51.540 Ah. Fantastic. 2019 01:38:51.540 --> 01:38:52.413 That's great! 2020 01:38:53.390 --> 01:38:58.023 Well done. It's terrific. 2021 01:38:59.890 --> 01:39:01.271 So we've got people working- 2022 01:39:01.271 --> 01:39:03.557 Oh, here's we've got the wax block again. 2023 01:39:05.240 --> 01:39:06.370 There we go. 2024 01:39:06.370 --> 01:39:08.930 And the iPhone light behind is really great too. 2025 01:39:08.930 --> 01:39:12.200 Yeah. That's a really good little technique. 2026 01:39:12.200 --> 01:39:15.000 Yep. Seeing how the relief, that's terrific. 2027 01:39:16.070 --> 01:39:18.140 I'm liking how you're attacking the fur 2028 01:39:18.140 --> 01:39:20.618 of that animal too. 2029 01:39:20.618 --> 01:39:21.518 It's looking good. 2030 01:39:26.610 --> 01:39:31.466 I'm curious to see Shayne's efforts too at some point he... 2031 01:39:31.466 --> 01:39:32.930 (everybody laughs) 2032 01:39:32.930 --> 01:39:33.763 Oh, come on. 2033 01:39:33.763 --> 01:39:36.393 We're amongst friends. (indistinct) 2034 01:40:28.000 --> 01:40:30.430 I think I'm just gonna become completely 2035 01:40:30.430 --> 01:40:31.880 obsessed with noses. 2036 01:40:31.880 --> 01:40:35.030 That's the thing that I'm finding absolutely 2037 01:40:35.030 --> 01:40:37.703 fascinating is trying to get people's noses right. 2038 01:40:40.560 --> 01:40:42.410 Is there a particular lighting that you like 2039 01:40:42.410 --> 01:40:44.700 to work with when you're carving? 2040 01:40:44.700 --> 01:40:46.790 You say that you often work into the evening? 2041 01:40:46.790 --> 01:40:47.623 Yeah. 2042 01:40:47.623 --> 01:40:52.581 I usually have a desk lamp on the desk and often 2043 01:40:52.581 --> 01:40:55.800 it's not a direct overhead light, 2044 01:40:55.800 --> 01:40:57.970 but it's a light coming from the side so that I can 2045 01:40:57.970 --> 01:41:01.339 sort of see those shadows and it can be sometimes 2046 01:41:01.339 --> 01:41:04.790 a case of holding the work up vertically or sort 2047 01:41:04.790 --> 01:41:05.870 of moving it around. 2048 01:41:05.870 --> 01:41:10.870 So a really kind of even wash over the work 2049 01:41:11.720 --> 01:41:14.380 doesn't necessarily help, but something that's a bit 2050 01:41:14.380 --> 01:41:16.840 more directional creates a bit of contrast, 2051 01:41:16.840 --> 01:41:19.420 so a sort of a raking light or a slanted light, 2052 01:41:19.420 --> 01:41:21.520 then you can kind of see the shadows 2053 01:41:21.520 --> 01:41:23.253 and understand the forms. 2054 01:41:24.670 --> 01:41:27.530 So yeah, sometimes working at night time in a room 2055 01:41:27.530 --> 01:41:30.730 that's not super bright but with a lamp can create 2056 01:41:30.730 --> 01:41:32.970 more exaggerated shadows. 2057 01:41:32.970 --> 01:41:34.920 And as long as it's not so dim 2058 01:41:34.920 --> 01:41:36.680 that it's generating eyestrain, 2059 01:41:36.680 --> 01:41:40.570 it sort of seems to work pretty well to work like that. 2060 01:41:40.570 --> 01:41:45.570 But also good amounts of daylight is always wonderful. 2061 01:41:47.410 --> 01:41:48.420 It's so much. 2062 01:41:48.420 --> 01:41:52.122 And I find, and I'm sure many people who have reached 2063 01:41:52.122 --> 01:41:55.320 a certain age and have always had good eyesight. 2064 01:41:55.320 --> 01:41:57.136 And then they've got the old age 2065 01:41:57.136 --> 01:42:00.801 eyesight decline happening that I can see a lot less 2066 01:42:00.801 --> 01:42:02.960 at night time than I used to be able to. 2067 01:42:02.960 --> 01:42:07.960 And so I'm working under brighter lights and making 2068 01:42:08.920 --> 01:42:11.750 sure that the lights are bright enough is really 2069 01:42:11.750 --> 01:42:12.980 important for me. 2070 01:42:12.980 --> 01:42:16.880 And I haven't quite adjusted to my lack of eyesight yet. 2071 01:42:16.880 --> 01:42:20.240 So I will often find that I forget to make 2072 01:42:20.240 --> 01:42:22.150 the lighting bright enough and then I'll turn a light 2073 01:42:22.150 --> 01:42:25.903 off or on or I'll add a lamp and suddenly I can see, 2074 01:42:25.903 --> 01:42:29.010 and I didn't even realise I couldn't see before that point. 2075 01:42:29.010 --> 01:42:33.630 So a good amount of light is always helpful. 2076 01:42:33.630 --> 01:42:35.880 And then that directional light can just give a bit 2077 01:42:35.880 --> 01:42:37.223 of extra information. 2078 01:42:39.240 --> 01:42:40.520 You were saying before that you're really 2079 01:42:40.520 --> 01:42:42.130 enjoying working into noses, 2080 01:42:42.130 --> 01:42:44.086 but is there a good part of the head or face to start 2081 01:42:44.086 --> 01:42:46.210 from in your opinion? 2082 01:42:46.210 --> 01:42:48.920 Oh, I think it really depends on the angle. 2083 01:42:48.920 --> 01:42:52.583 So with that, the working on profile, 2084 01:42:54.800 --> 01:42:58.210 I think it's just getting the whole profile, 2085 01:42:58.210 --> 01:43:01.860 and there's a lot of similar techniques you can 2086 01:43:01.860 --> 01:43:04.510 use as you would with drawing. 2087 01:43:04.510 --> 01:43:07.670 And I'm going to go back to Mr. Parker King and put 2088 01:43:07.670 --> 01:43:11.650 this image back on the table here, 2089 01:43:11.650 --> 01:43:15.300 is I'll often do something like look at the profile 2090 01:43:15.300 --> 01:43:18.234 and I'll just sort of kind of work out what the angle 2091 01:43:18.234 --> 01:43:23.234 of the face is so I could potentially draw a line like this, 2092 01:43:26.980 --> 01:43:30.920 so I can see that his, underneath his nose, 2093 01:43:30.920 --> 01:43:33.030 his upper lip and his bottom lip 2094 01:43:33.030 --> 01:43:35.910 in his chin are all on a particular slant. 2095 01:43:35.910 --> 01:43:39.350 And then his brow is on another angle. 2096 01:43:39.350 --> 01:43:40.683 So sort of doing that, 2097 01:43:41.540 --> 01:43:44.170 you know, that you see people doing in life 2098 01:43:44.170 --> 01:43:45.700 drawing classes where they hold their pencil up 2099 01:43:45.700 --> 01:43:47.370 and they look at it and they turn it to the right 2100 01:43:47.370 --> 01:43:50.660 angle and then they translate that to the same angle 2101 01:43:50.660 --> 01:43:55.660 on their drawing, working out the overall shape first 2102 01:43:56.120 --> 01:43:57.500 and then working back. 2103 01:43:57.500 --> 01:44:02.250 So it sort of blocking out those angles and being able 2104 01:44:02.250 --> 01:44:03.990 to kind of get the proportions. 2105 01:44:03.990 --> 01:44:07.250 And I think proportion is one of the things 2106 01:44:07.250 --> 01:44:11.120 that people always find difficult when life drawing 2107 01:44:11.120 --> 01:44:13.745 or creating portraits, is not making a nose 2108 01:44:13.745 --> 01:44:17.250 that's much bigger than the rest of the face or eyes 2109 01:44:17.250 --> 01:44:21.260 that are really tiny or those kinds of relationships. 2110 01:44:21.260 --> 01:44:23.840 So it's not so much starting in one place, 2111 01:44:23.840 --> 01:44:27.440 but I guess wherever you start it's working 2112 01:44:27.440 --> 01:44:29.390 out the relationships between that element 2113 01:44:29.390 --> 01:44:32.110 and the other elements so that things are in proportion. 2114 01:44:32.110 --> 01:44:35.340 And some of those techniques are things like looking 2115 01:44:35.340 --> 01:44:38.440 at the negative spaces or the shapes between features. 2116 01:44:38.440 --> 01:44:42.685 So with Mr. Parker King, one of the really nice 2117 01:44:42.685 --> 01:44:47.560 things about his profile and his face is this sort 2118 01:44:47.560 --> 01:44:50.480 of shape of his nose and the relationship 2119 01:44:50.480 --> 01:44:54.420 between where his nose comes in under the brow 2120 01:44:54.420 --> 01:44:58.283 and that sort of shape or space between his nose 2121 01:44:58.283 --> 01:44:59.780 and the eye. 2122 01:44:59.780 --> 01:45:02.460 And I'm just drawing onto this here so you can 2123 01:45:02.460 --> 01:45:03.470 see those shapes. 2124 01:45:03.470 --> 01:45:07.560 If you break this down into kind of shapes, 2125 01:45:07.560 --> 01:45:10.752 you've got all of these really nice facets 2126 01:45:10.752 --> 01:45:13.210 that you can work with. 2127 01:45:13.210 --> 01:45:17.250 And so it becomes almost 2128 01:45:17.250 --> 01:45:20.050 a kind of geometrical exercise. 2129 01:45:20.050 --> 01:45:21.770 And in fact, that was one of the things I think 2130 01:45:21.770 --> 01:45:23.630 was incredibly valuable about going 2131 01:45:23.630 --> 01:45:26.300 through that quite traditional sculpture training 2132 01:45:26.300 --> 01:45:30.170 when I did was spending weeks and weeks working 2133 01:45:30.170 --> 01:45:34.566 with a figure model and modelling in clay and having 2134 01:45:34.566 --> 01:45:37.370 an old school teacher come and go. 2135 01:45:37.370 --> 01:45:40.670 That plane, there's no, there's a plane 2136 01:45:40.670 --> 01:45:43.687 on the leg that joins to the thigh and this way, 2137 01:45:43.687 --> 01:45:45.240 and it comes around here and you can see 2138 01:45:45.240 --> 01:45:46.530 how the light's hitting it. 2139 01:45:46.530 --> 01:45:49.800 And until that, those elements were pointed out to me, 2140 01:45:49.800 --> 01:45:51.850 I physically couldn't see things. 2141 01:45:51.850 --> 01:45:53.870 And by the end of that sort of six weeks, 2142 01:45:53.870 --> 01:45:54.780 or however long it was, 2143 01:45:54.780 --> 01:45:57.680 of doing that exercise I could actually see things 2144 01:45:57.680 --> 01:45:58.770 I couldn't see before. 2145 01:45:58.770 --> 01:46:01.960 And I could understand the way planes shifted 2146 01:46:01.960 --> 01:46:04.270 and surfaces changed, and I could break things down 2147 01:46:04.270 --> 01:46:05.840 into shapes and forms. 2148 01:46:05.840 --> 01:46:09.934 And so those kinds of looking at an image or looking 2149 01:46:09.934 --> 01:46:12.170 at a life model and being able to say, 2150 01:46:12.170 --> 01:46:13.450 there's a shape here, a shape here, 2151 01:46:13.450 --> 01:46:16.440 a form there and breaking it down into the kind 2152 01:46:16.440 --> 01:46:19.940 of the geometry of the surfaces is the way that I tend 2153 01:46:19.940 --> 01:46:24.060 to work and trying to not name things and go 2154 01:46:24.060 --> 01:46:26.090 that's a nose, that's an eye, that's an ear, 2155 01:46:26.090 --> 01:46:29.860 but that's a shape that sits behind this shape. 2156 01:46:29.860 --> 01:46:33.470 And there's a series of convex curves or concave curves 2157 01:46:33.470 --> 01:46:36.400 or looking at the kind of geometry or the angle 2158 01:46:36.400 --> 01:46:38.340 of things is, and the relationships 2159 01:46:38.340 --> 01:46:40.820 between those elements and really seeing them in terms 2160 01:46:40.820 --> 01:46:45.820 of form and shape and trying to step outside 2161 01:46:45.929 --> 01:46:50.200 or away from the story of a face as a kind of like, 2162 01:46:50.200 --> 01:46:53.852 this is a, this person, or this is an eye, 2163 01:46:53.852 --> 01:46:57.390 that's how I kind of break things down in order to be 2164 01:46:57.390 --> 01:46:58.913 able to work with them. 2165 01:47:00.200 --> 01:47:02.130 I think I'm repeating myself a bit there but I hope 2166 01:47:02.130 --> 01:47:04.640 that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 2167 01:47:04.640 --> 01:47:06.680 And you'll often find that I think if you've done any 2168 01:47:06.680 --> 01:47:09.540 life drawing or life modelling, 2169 01:47:09.540 --> 01:47:12.204 that teachers will talk about that, they'll sort of say, 2170 01:47:12.204 --> 01:47:13.860 look, you can see this, 2171 01:47:13.860 --> 01:47:17.746 there's this slanting kind of triangular plane 2172 01:47:17.746 --> 01:47:19.110 on the face here, 2173 01:47:19.110 --> 01:47:21.050 and then it recedes and it goes around the corner 2174 01:47:21.050 --> 01:47:23.120 over there and the light hits it in this direction. 2175 01:47:23.120 --> 01:47:25.770 So really paying attention to light and shadow 2176 01:47:25.770 --> 01:47:28.070 and shape and form and breaking things down 2177 01:47:28.070 --> 01:47:31.010 into those most basic elements and then building them 2178 01:47:31.010 --> 01:47:32.090 back up from there. 2179 01:47:32.090 --> 01:47:37.090 So sometimes, that, once you sort of solve problems 2180 01:47:38.370 --> 01:47:40.840 in particular details, like just honing in on lips 2181 01:47:40.840 --> 01:47:44.760 or honing in on a nose or honing in on eyes and looking 2182 01:47:44.760 --> 01:47:45.810 at the shapes and forms... 2183 01:47:45.810 --> 01:47:47.330 Then when it comes to putting the whole thing 2184 01:47:47.330 --> 01:47:49.700 together it's really thinking about all 2185 01:47:49.700 --> 01:47:51.652 the relationships between those elements 2186 01:47:51.652 --> 01:47:55.950 and working across them all fairly, evenly, 2187 01:47:55.950 --> 01:47:58.690 in a sense not focusing too much on one particular 2188 01:47:58.690 --> 01:48:01.620 area until you've got the whole blocked in. 2189 01:48:01.620 --> 01:48:04.130 And I tend to find with the compositional 2190 01:48:04.130 --> 01:48:06.030 or the proportional stuff, 2191 01:48:06.030 --> 01:48:09.962 that if I haven't been doing representation or drawing 2192 01:48:09.962 --> 01:48:12.790 or modelling for a while that that's the thing that takes 2193 01:48:12.790 --> 01:48:15.633 a lot of work is getting things in proportion. 2194 01:48:15.633 --> 01:48:18.040 And then the detail kind of sorts itself 2195 01:48:18.040 --> 01:48:20.040 out from there once the proportions are right. 2196 01:48:20.040 --> 01:48:22.980 If the proportions are wrong then everything 2197 01:48:22.980 --> 01:48:25.014 just doesn't fit together and you have to sort of get 2198 01:48:25.014 --> 01:48:28.130 rid of whole chunks and sort of start again 2199 01:48:28.130 --> 01:48:31.160 from scratch or redo it to get it in proportion 2200 01:48:31.160 --> 01:48:32.010 and get it right. 2201 01:48:34.210 --> 01:48:35.043 Great. 2202 01:48:36.630 --> 01:48:39.180 Oh, I can see some sunlight soap kind of on the edge 2203 01:48:39.180 --> 01:48:40.090 or a yellow... 2204 01:48:40.090 --> 01:48:42.880 Oh, that's looking fantastic. 2205 01:48:42.880 --> 01:48:45.770 You've got quite a good kind of deep 2206 01:48:49.030 --> 01:48:52.020 high relief almost coming in there. 2207 01:48:52.020 --> 01:48:54.813 Nice. (chuckles) 2208 01:49:08.680 --> 01:49:10.300 Oh, we've got bags of soap, 2209 01:49:10.300 --> 01:49:12.853 you can do about 100 portraits out of that lot. 2210 01:49:13.826 --> 01:49:16.042 (both laugh) 2211 01:49:16.042 --> 01:49:19.078 Oh, nice. It's such a good colour, isn't it? 2212 01:49:19.078 --> 01:49:21.955 Isn't it? It's almost like American cheese. 2213 01:49:21.955 --> 01:49:22.911 It is, yeah. 2214 01:49:22.911 --> 01:49:27.603 That's sort of very, egg-yolky kind of colour, yeah. 2215 01:49:35.148 --> 01:49:37.260 We sort of touched on this earlier, 2216 01:49:37.260 --> 01:49:39.950 Ellis, but is there a particular, 2217 01:49:39.950 --> 01:49:43.100 so profile is perhaps the easiest and then three 2218 01:49:43.100 --> 01:49:48.090 quarters and then face on, can you tell a proficiency of a, 2219 01:49:49.220 --> 01:49:53.080 you know, colonial artist or a cover by how much 2220 01:49:53.080 --> 01:49:55.000 they're showing off in terms of the position 2221 01:49:55.000 --> 01:49:57.343 of that particular carving? 2222 01:49:57.343 --> 01:49:59.480 I never really thought about it in those terms. 2223 01:49:59.480 --> 01:50:02.870 I guess from, with low relief, we, 2224 01:50:02.870 --> 01:50:05.318 you really rarely see a face on carving 2225 01:50:05.318 --> 01:50:08.930 because it's incredibly difficult to do that. 2226 01:50:08.930 --> 01:50:10.630 It really lends itself much more 2227 01:50:10.630 --> 01:50:13.198 to a three-dimensional approach. 2228 01:50:13.198 --> 01:50:18.198 And certainly off the top of my head 2229 01:50:18.830 --> 01:50:20.210 as I'm still thinking about it, 2230 01:50:20.210 --> 01:50:22.490 I'm not visualising any that I can think 2231 01:50:22.490 --> 01:50:26.270 of that are actually just straight face on, low reliefs, 2232 01:50:26.270 --> 01:50:27.380 although I'm sure there are. 2233 01:50:27.380 --> 01:50:30.880 And I would imagine that having a look at, you know, 2234 01:50:30.880 --> 01:50:34.490 Teresa Walker produced lots and lots of these tiny 2235 01:50:34.490 --> 01:50:36.550 little beautiful medallions and there quite a few 2236 01:50:36.550 --> 01:50:38.090 of them in collections around the country. 2237 01:50:38.090 --> 01:50:39.440 So it'd be interesting to see, 2238 01:50:39.440 --> 01:50:41.270 to have a look at what she produced and see 2239 01:50:41.270 --> 01:50:43.290 if there were many that had that kind 2240 01:50:43.290 --> 01:50:47.010 of face on presentation. 2241 01:50:47.010 --> 01:50:48.890 But I can't think of any off the top of my head. 2242 01:50:48.890 --> 01:50:52.440 I haven't been actively looking for them though. So yeah. 2243 01:50:52.440 --> 01:50:55.810 The Queen's always- Yes. Yep. 2244 01:50:55.810 --> 01:50:56.943 She's always profile. 2245 01:50:58.120 --> 01:50:58.953 Yeah. 2246 01:50:58.953 --> 01:51:00.850 And I think coins are really the place where you see 2247 01:51:00.850 --> 01:51:02.730 most of these very low relief... 2248 01:51:02.730 --> 01:51:04.840 Shayne's showing us his work. 2249 01:51:04.840 --> 01:51:06.120 Oh, nice. Ah, excellent. 2250 01:51:06.120 --> 01:51:08.444 It's looking great, Shayne. 2251 01:51:08.444 --> 01:51:12.570 You've got that nice kind of plane between the eye 2252 01:51:12.570 --> 01:51:15.070 on the side of the nose coming down under the eye. 2253 01:51:22.746 --> 01:51:25.160 Is there anyone that you would recommend 2254 01:51:25.160 --> 01:51:27.200 investigating or following somebody 2255 01:51:27.200 --> 01:51:30.890 that might've influenced your own artistic practise, Ellis? 2256 01:51:30.890 --> 01:51:34.650 Oh, ah, Hmm. 2257 01:51:34.650 --> 01:51:36.643 That's a really interesting question. 2258 01:51:38.000 --> 01:51:39.323 I'm trying to think. 2259 01:51:40.560 --> 01:51:43.260 It'll be one of those ones where in half an hour's 2260 01:51:43.260 --> 01:51:46.003 time there'll be 10 people that I can think of, 2261 01:51:47.510 --> 01:51:49.290 but right off the top of my head I'm just having 2262 01:51:49.290 --> 01:51:51.860 a total blank at the moment. 2263 01:51:51.860 --> 01:51:53.470 I think what's kind of interesting 2264 01:51:53.470 --> 01:51:56.480 about the current moment is there's really not a lot 2265 01:51:56.480 --> 01:51:58.470 of artists that I know of that are doing a lot 2266 01:51:58.470 --> 01:52:01.583 of very figurative work. 2267 01:52:03.500 --> 01:52:06.310 I guess Janine Antoni, as a contemporary artist, 2268 01:52:06.310 --> 01:52:07.910 it's an American artist, 2269 01:52:07.910 --> 01:52:09.960 who's done a lot of work with portraiture 2270 01:52:09.960 --> 01:52:14.591 and figurative sculpture and also kind of critiquing 2271 01:52:14.591 --> 01:52:16.280 that or playing with that. 2272 01:52:16.280 --> 01:52:18.867 So she made some works a number of years ago 2273 01:52:18.867 --> 01:52:23.351 where she cast portraits of herself in chocolate and soap, 2274 01:52:23.351 --> 01:52:28.351 and then she gnawed away at the chocolate ones. 2275 01:52:28.550 --> 01:52:29.730 And then she washed, 2276 01:52:29.730 --> 01:52:31.380 used that washed away at the soap ones. 2277 01:52:31.380 --> 01:52:33.410 And the title of the work is "Lick and Lather." 2278 01:52:33.410 --> 01:52:36.490 So you end up seeing this sort of series of objects 2279 01:52:36.490 --> 01:52:39.330 that are in different states of kind of decay or sort 2280 01:52:39.330 --> 01:52:42.101 of have been consumed at the edges. 2281 01:52:42.101 --> 01:52:45.794 And she's done lots of variations or various kinds 2282 01:52:45.794 --> 01:52:48.990 of works that really interact with that idea 2283 01:52:48.990 --> 01:52:52.270 of portraiture and self portraiture, and probably, 2284 01:52:52.270 --> 01:52:53.850 internationally, most famous right now 2285 01:52:53.850 --> 01:52:56.900 is Mark Quinn because he has done that work 2286 01:52:56.900 --> 01:53:00.663 where he cast his own head in blood, which was, 2287 01:53:02.120 --> 01:53:04.750 has been shown in Australia in the past. 2288 01:53:04.750 --> 01:53:08.200 But also he made this beautiful work of one 2289 01:53:08.200 --> 01:53:10.100 of the Black Lives Matter activists. 2290 01:53:10.100 --> 01:53:12.290 And I can't remember her name now, which is terrible, 2291 01:53:12.290 --> 01:53:17.120 but the sculpture that was pulled down 2292 01:53:17.120 --> 01:53:19.623 in the UK that I can't remember the name of either. 2293 01:53:19.623 --> 01:53:21.923 It's all off the top of my head at the moment. 2294 01:53:22.880 --> 01:53:25.750 Was one of those ones that received international 2295 01:53:25.750 --> 01:53:28.840 news last year because a bunch of activists pull down 2296 01:53:28.840 --> 01:53:32.100 this bronze statue in the UK and chucked it in the river 2297 01:53:32.100 --> 01:53:34.240 of someone who'd been a slave trader, 2298 01:53:34.240 --> 01:53:39.240 and Mark Quinn made a bronze life sculpture 2299 01:53:39.570 --> 01:53:42.910 of one of the activists and put it on the pedestal 2300 01:53:42.910 --> 01:53:44.690 that the colonial sculpture had been 2301 01:53:44.690 --> 01:53:47.420 removed from, unauthorised. 2302 01:53:47.420 --> 01:53:49.360 I think it was up for about 24 hours and then 2303 01:53:49.360 --> 01:53:50.820 it got pulled down, 2304 01:53:50.820 --> 01:53:53.422 but I thought it was so fascinating that he chose 2305 01:53:53.422 --> 01:53:58.422 that really traditional high art medium of bronze 2306 01:53:58.460 --> 01:54:01.750 and made a contemporary work representing someone 2307 01:54:01.750 --> 01:54:04.677 who is involved in that struggle and sort of putting 2308 01:54:04.677 --> 01:54:09.677 them in the place of the historical figure who was, 2309 01:54:10.030 --> 01:54:12.540 you know, under criticism at the time. 2310 01:54:12.540 --> 01:54:15.560 So his work is pretty interesting as far 2311 01:54:15.560 --> 01:54:18.407 as someone who both works within those traditional 2312 01:54:18.407 --> 01:54:21.147 media and those representation systems, 2313 01:54:21.147 --> 01:54:23.360 but also critiques it and plays with it. 2314 01:54:23.360 --> 01:54:27.165 And he did this amazing sculpture of another artist 2315 01:54:27.165 --> 01:54:29.662 that was placed on that huge plinth, 2316 01:54:29.662 --> 01:54:31.310 I think it's Trafalgar square, 2317 01:54:31.310 --> 01:54:33.988 The Fourth Plinth or whatever it's called. 2318 01:54:33.988 --> 01:54:36.450 And again, totally can't remember the name 2319 01:54:36.450 --> 01:54:38.720 of the subject now, I should have, you know, 2320 01:54:38.720 --> 01:54:40.143 had a list of names with me. 2321 01:54:41.380 --> 01:54:44.987 He made this amazing marble sculpture of this woman 2322 01:54:44.987 --> 01:54:48.860 who is also an artist and she's someone who was born 2323 01:54:48.860 --> 01:54:50.680 with these birth defects. 2324 01:54:50.680 --> 01:54:52.505 It means that she doesn't have arms and legs. 2325 01:54:52.505 --> 01:54:57.130 And she's been quite an activist as someone who refuses 2326 01:54:57.130 --> 01:55:00.680 to use prosthetic limbs 2327 01:55:00.680 --> 01:55:03.040 and be uncomfortable in order 2328 01:55:03.040 --> 01:55:05.500 to be more acceptable to society. 2329 01:55:05.500 --> 01:55:09.150 So he made this incredibly beautiful marble sculpture 2330 01:55:09.150 --> 01:55:12.870 of her in her natural state. 2331 01:55:12.870 --> 01:55:16.920 So I think he's another one that's worth looking at. 2332 01:55:16.920 --> 01:55:19.450 But I'm just trying to think too, who is, 2333 01:55:19.450 --> 01:55:22.050 there's an indigenous artist in Australia who made 2334 01:55:22.050 --> 01:55:26.210 a bronze head in a balaclava 2335 01:55:26.210 --> 01:55:27.360 that was kind of making 2336 01:55:27.360 --> 01:55:29.520 a commentary on the whole Captain Cook sort 2337 01:55:29.520 --> 01:55:31.680 of controversy that's been happening recently. 2338 01:55:31.680 --> 01:55:33.750 And his name's gone out of my mind, too. 2339 01:55:33.750 --> 01:55:35.120 We're gonna add all of the links 2340 01:55:35.120 --> 01:55:39.580 into the Zoom chat and our Facebook comments. 2341 01:55:39.580 --> 01:55:40.775 So- All of it. 2342 01:55:40.775 --> 01:55:42.610 Is Mark Quinn's subject 2343 01:55:42.610 --> 01:55:47.610 who is on the Trafalgar pedestal. 2344 01:55:47.720 --> 01:55:49.263 Excellent. Alison Lapper. 2345 01:55:50.150 --> 01:55:50.983 Yeah. 2346 01:55:50.983 --> 01:55:51.816 I need my phone so I can sort of be 2347 01:55:51.816 --> 01:55:54.293 Googling along the side too. 2348 01:56:12.490 --> 01:56:14.853 I can see people still working away up there. 2349 01:56:28.690 --> 01:56:31.690 Jason Wing. Oh, Jason Wing. Yes. 2350 01:56:31.690 --> 01:56:36.307 Did the Balaklava at the top of Captain Cook, 2351 01:56:39.160 --> 01:56:40.910 we can share that in our links too. 2352 01:56:43.563 --> 01:56:45.350 I think it's always really fascinating to see 2353 01:56:45.350 --> 01:56:47.960 that when contemporary artists are taking 2354 01:56:47.960 --> 01:56:51.447 traditional forms or processes or practises and using 2355 01:56:51.447 --> 01:56:53.820 them in a really interesting way 2356 01:56:55.610 --> 01:56:58.943 to critique some kind of contemporary issues or, 2357 01:57:01.060 --> 01:57:04.150 not necessarily valorizing those historical forms, 2358 01:57:04.150 --> 01:57:07.630 but making it a really effective use of them, 2359 01:57:07.630 --> 01:57:09.910 it's really fascinating to sort of to see 2360 01:57:09.910 --> 01:57:12.043 those different strategies and approaches. 2361 01:57:22.720 --> 01:57:27.170 I think a lot of artists working now are sort of, 2362 01:57:27.170 --> 01:57:31.100 that we have such an incredible wealth of availability 2363 01:57:31.100 --> 01:57:35.039 of opportunities and this kind of sense 2364 01:57:35.039 --> 01:57:38.410 that everyone's working in digital media or new media 2365 01:57:38.410 --> 01:57:41.590 or that you need to be working in ways that are 2366 01:57:41.590 --> 01:57:43.550 somehow very current. 2367 01:57:43.550 --> 01:57:46.954 And that sometimes revisiting really ancient 2368 01:57:46.954 --> 01:57:50.858 techniques and practises can still have 2369 01:57:50.858 --> 01:57:54.260 a really interesting resonance with what's going 2370 01:57:54.260 --> 01:57:56.336 on now and can be used in really interesting ways 2371 01:57:56.336 --> 01:58:01.336 to make commentary or challenge people's ways of thinking. 2372 01:58:02.330 --> 01:58:05.040 And particularly in relation to our history, 2373 01:58:05.040 --> 01:58:07.360 thinking about the sort of stories that have 2374 01:58:07.360 --> 01:58:09.209 or haven't been told and who's telling them, 2375 01:58:09.209 --> 01:58:10.910 who's being represented. 2376 01:58:10.910 --> 01:58:13.123 It's really good to question those things. 2377 01:58:15.740 --> 01:58:17.210 You know how we were speaking before 2378 01:58:17.210 --> 01:58:20.460 about this being so meditative and losing track of time. 2379 01:58:20.460 --> 01:58:22.110 So we're almost out of time. 2380 01:58:22.110 --> 01:58:24.660 I just completely lost track of time. 2381 01:58:24.660 --> 01:58:27.050 We are actually just about out of time. 2382 01:58:27.050 --> 01:58:29.940 So perhaps we could get people if they were interested 2383 01:58:29.940 --> 01:58:32.180 to turn their cameras on and show us 2384 01:58:32.180 --> 01:58:33.492 what they've been working on. 2385 01:58:33.492 --> 01:58:35.659 That would be fantastic. 2386 01:58:47.068 --> 01:58:47.930 Here we go. 2387 01:58:47.930 --> 01:58:49.226 Look at those sculptures coming together. 2388 01:58:49.226 --> 01:58:50.393 Wonderful work. 2389 01:58:52.833 --> 01:58:55.370 Fantastic. Thank you so much, everybody. 2390 01:58:55.370 --> 01:58:57.533 This is tremendous. Ah, that's great. 2391 01:59:02.207 --> 01:59:04.558 I wanna get some of that yellowy orangy soap. 2392 01:59:04.558 --> 01:59:08.380 I think that yellowy orange was Wright's? 2393 01:59:08.380 --> 01:59:11.430 Yeah, Wright's soap. Beautiful. 2394 01:59:11.430 --> 01:59:12.763 We'll check it out. 2395 01:59:14.460 --> 01:59:16.360 Good work by everybody. Oh, nice. 2396 01:59:17.410 --> 01:59:19.040 Yep. They're terrific. Aren't they? 2397 01:59:19.040 --> 01:59:21.083 Those backlit and that's fantastic. 2398 01:59:23.060 --> 01:59:25.250 Wonderful. Thank you so much, everybody- 2399 01:59:25.250 --> 01:59:27.540 Thanks, everyone. Joining us today. 2400 01:59:27.540 --> 01:59:29.670 I think that's probably all we have time for, 2401 01:59:29.670 --> 01:59:32.330 but thank you so much, Ellis. 2402 01:59:32.330 --> 01:59:33.861 Oh, you're most welcome. 2403 01:59:33.861 --> 01:59:36.010 That was absolutely tremendous. 2404 01:59:36.010 --> 01:59:38.070 And it was so lovely to listen to your commentary 2405 01:59:38.070 --> 01:59:40.007 as we were, everybody was busily carving 2406 01:59:40.007 --> 01:59:42.480 and we've had lots of comments about people who would 2407 01:59:42.480 --> 01:59:46.240 love to go back and rewatch the recording 2408 01:59:46.240 --> 01:59:47.500 because they've learnt so much. 2409 01:59:47.500 --> 01:59:50.630 So the recording of this session will be 2410 01:59:50.630 --> 01:59:53.190 on our website, portrait.gov.au. 2411 01:59:53.190 --> 01:59:55.880 So we always encourage you guys to jump on our website 2412 01:59:55.880 --> 01:59:57.930 and check out all of the recordings we have there, 2413 01:59:57.930 --> 01:59:59.830 under the watch section on our website 2414 01:59:59.830 --> 02:00:02.400 is where you'll find all those on demand videos. 2415 02:00:02.400 --> 02:00:03.660 It's also up on Facebook. 2416 02:00:03.660 --> 02:00:06.765 So please let people know, share with your friends, 2417 02:00:06.765 --> 02:00:08.810 get the message out about our workshops, 2418 02:00:08.810 --> 02:00:11.190 because we really really love the fact 2419 02:00:11.190 --> 02:00:12.970 that Australians are supporting creativity, 2420 02:00:12.970 --> 02:00:14.800 particularly after the year we've had last year. 2421 02:00:14.800 --> 02:00:16.900 So, and thank you so much for teaching us. 2422 02:00:16.900 --> 02:00:18.220 It's an absolute pleasure. I had a ball... 2423 02:00:18.220 --> 02:00:20.020 I'm really, you know, 2424 02:00:20.020 --> 02:00:22.300 and I loved attending the one that I attended as well. 2425 02:00:22.300 --> 02:00:24.550 So I'll be back to attend more in the future. 2426 02:00:24.550 --> 02:00:26.220 Thank you so much. Terrific. 2427 02:00:26.220 --> 02:00:28.560 Thank you, everybody. And yeah, jump on our website. 2428 02:00:28.560 --> 02:00:29.640 Follow us on social. 2429 02:00:29.640 --> 02:00:31.460 Get all the information about our next workshop 2430 02:00:31.460 --> 02:00:32.550 that we've got coming up. 2431 02:00:32.550 --> 02:00:35.000 And until that time, we'll see you later. 2432 02:00:35.000 --> 02:00:35.953 Bye-bye, thank you.