WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:03.600 The most important things that can happen to you, 2 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:06.900 standing in front of whichever painting it might be, 3 00:00:06.900 --> 00:00:08.940 can only happen with a painting. 4 00:00:08.940 --> 00:00:12.060 It's the experience of whatever the hell a painting is, 5 00:00:12.060 --> 00:00:15.090 and the most important and profound 6 00:00:15.090 --> 00:00:16.920 and life-changing things that can happen to you 7 00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:18.650 when you look at a photograph 8 00:00:18.650 --> 00:00:20.327 can only happen with a photograph. 9 00:00:20.327 --> 00:00:21.160 It's a photograph. 10 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:23.077 They're totally different things. 11 00:00:23.077 --> 00:00:26.080 line:15% (soft music) 12 00:00:26.080 --> 00:00:27.230 line:15% Usually I start with, 13 00:00:27.230 --> 00:00:29.170 line:15% at the very beginning, and talk about your childhood, 14 00:00:29.170 --> 00:00:31.262 line:15% but we might work our way back to that. 15 00:00:31.262 --> 00:00:32.323 line:15% And, if we could maybe start with 16 00:00:32.323 --> 00:00:34.373 the story of the Simone Young commission. 17 00:00:35.610 --> 00:00:38.580 I went to watch Simone in rehearsals 18 00:00:38.580 --> 00:00:41.350 at Hamer Hall in Melbourne a couple of times, 19 00:00:41.350 --> 00:00:44.570 and I had the same problem I had 20 00:00:44.570 --> 00:00:47.610 when I was doing the commission for the Paris Opera, 21 00:00:47.610 --> 00:00:50.190 which was that I didn't want to make pictures 22 00:00:50.190 --> 00:00:52.170 which were just a document of something else. 23 00:00:52.170 --> 00:00:53.480 I wanted to make pictures 24 00:00:53.480 --> 00:00:55.940 which were a thing in their own right, 25 00:00:55.940 --> 00:00:57.030 if you know what I mean. 26 00:00:57.030 --> 00:01:00.560 And so, by photographing her in the pit, 27 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:04.220 with an orchestra, rehearsing, whatever it was at the time, 28 00:01:04.220 --> 00:01:07.300 I just thought, it's just never going to look as interesting 29 00:01:07.300 --> 00:01:09.770 as in its own right, as, 30 00:01:09.770 --> 00:01:11.410 so the picture becomes the subject, 31 00:01:11.410 --> 00:01:14.210 rather than the event that's being documented 32 00:01:14.210 --> 00:01:15.043 being the subject, 33 00:01:15.043 --> 00:01:17.770 which is one of those great conundrums for photography. 34 00:01:17.770 --> 00:01:20.530 And so, I organised for Simone to visit me 35 00:01:20.530 --> 00:01:22.220 in my studio in Northcote, 36 00:01:22.220 --> 00:01:26.390 and we'd met and discussed things briefly, 37 00:01:26.390 --> 00:01:28.060 at rehearsals, but she came along, 38 00:01:28.060 --> 00:01:29.910 and she said, "I've brought my shoes." 39 00:01:29.910 --> 00:01:30.810 I said, "It's from the waist up." 40 00:01:30.810 --> 00:01:32.290 She said, "I need my shoes." 41 00:01:32.290 --> 00:01:33.400 So she put the shoes on, 42 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:37.590 and I'd constructed this couple of crates in my studio 43 00:01:37.590 --> 00:01:39.420 that I wanted her to stand on. 44 00:01:39.420 --> 00:01:41.230 And then I, we had a conversation. 45 00:01:41.230 --> 00:01:42.327 I said, "Well, you know, what have you, 46 00:01:42.327 --> 00:01:43.440 "what are you working on at the moment?" 47 00:01:43.440 --> 00:01:45.880 And she was preparing to conduct "Der Rosenkavalier," 48 00:01:45.880 --> 00:01:47.306 the Richard Strauss. 49 00:01:47.306 --> 00:01:49.977 And I said, "Oh, well, you know, why don't we put it on, 50 00:01:49.977 --> 00:01:52.950 "and why don't you, you know, conduct to the music?" 51 00:01:52.950 --> 00:01:54.750 I said, "You know, it's strange, of course." 52 00:01:54.750 --> 00:01:56.877 And she said, "It's very strange, because I lead. 53 00:01:56.877 --> 00:01:58.717 "Whereas if I'm listening to a recording and try to conduct, 54 00:01:58.717 --> 00:02:00.233 "I'm following the recording." 55 00:02:00.233 --> 00:02:02.168 And I said, "Well, it might be interesting for you. 56 00:02:02.168 --> 00:02:03.540 "Let's give it a go." 57 00:02:03.540 --> 00:02:04.497 And she said, "Well, you know, 58 00:02:04.497 --> 00:02:06.437 "the only recording that I really 59 00:02:06.437 --> 00:02:09.617 "have been listening to carefully is by Erich Kleiber, 60 00:02:09.617 --> 00:02:11.010 "and you're not going to have that." 61 00:02:11.010 --> 00:02:12.980 And I go, "Well, here it is." 62 00:02:12.980 --> 00:02:14.467 So I pulled out the Erich Kleiber recording, 63 00:02:14.467 --> 00:02:16.170 Carlos Keliber's father. 64 00:02:16.170 --> 00:02:18.360 Great conductor, and we put that on, 65 00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:19.640 and she started, she got into it, 66 00:02:19.640 --> 00:02:20.540 and she started conducting, 67 00:02:20.540 --> 00:02:22.260 and I was just taking pictures, and everything else, 68 00:02:22.260 --> 00:02:24.660 and we kept going, and we kept going, 69 00:02:24.660 --> 00:02:26.440 and we both got quite a good sweat up. 70 00:02:26.440 --> 00:02:28.230 And in fact, in the end, 71 00:02:28.230 --> 00:02:30.430 she conducted the whole opera. 72 00:02:30.430 --> 00:02:32.850 And like, we were having a lot of fun. 73 00:02:32.850 --> 00:02:34.500 Like, she was like, going off, 74 00:02:34.500 --> 00:02:36.790 and I just kept shooting it and shooting it and shooting it, 75 00:02:36.790 --> 00:02:40.580 and at the end of it, like a normal session 76 00:02:40.580 --> 00:02:41.900 that I would do with one of my models, 77 00:02:41.900 --> 00:02:45.143 it's like both people are kind of exhausted and perspiring. 78 00:02:46.453 --> 00:02:47.547 And that was that, and it was like... 79 00:02:47.547 --> 00:02:50.990 And I said, "It seems, it's interesting to do." (sighs) 80 00:02:50.990 --> 00:02:52.270 So that was the end of it. 81 00:02:52.270 --> 00:02:54.560 And then she packed up, and caught a cab, 82 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:58.450 and I went back to the lab 83 00:02:58.450 --> 00:03:00.344 and started working on the pictures. 84 00:03:00.344 --> 00:03:03.177 (classical music) 85 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:06.600 I shoot film, old-fashioned negative film, 86 00:03:06.600 --> 00:03:07.433 in a camera, you know. 87 00:03:07.433 --> 00:03:09.770 So just, you know, what we used to all 88 00:03:09.770 --> 00:03:12.130 take to the chemist and get developed. 89 00:03:12.130 --> 00:03:15.130 And I still use film for a number of very important reasons, 90 00:03:15.130 --> 00:03:17.520 but I just had all the film processed, 91 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:20.313 standard C-41 process, you know. 92 00:03:21.590 --> 00:03:24.680 Standard and variable, I think the scientists call it. 93 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:25.820 So that's a standard process. 94 00:03:25.820 --> 00:03:28.910 And then I make those contact proof sheets. 95 00:03:28.910 --> 00:03:31.970 Six rows, times six, 36 shots on a roll of film, 96 00:03:31.970 --> 00:03:34.130 and I make those myself, 97 00:03:34.130 --> 00:03:35.850 and then I sit there with some on my desk, 98 00:03:35.850 --> 00:03:38.600 with a white Chinagraph pencil and a magnifying glass, 99 00:03:38.600 --> 00:03:40.350 have a look, and I just take my time. 100 00:03:40.350 --> 00:03:41.580 And I go back and forth through them, 101 00:03:41.580 --> 00:03:44.410 and of course, because they contact the film, 102 00:03:44.410 --> 00:03:45.650 you can see the film grain, 103 00:03:45.650 --> 00:03:47.380 and I've always thought of the film grain 104 00:03:47.380 --> 00:03:49.480 as part of the actual image. 105 00:03:49.480 --> 00:03:50.508 That's probably why I'm still, 106 00:03:50.508 --> 00:03:52.321 mainly the reason I'm still shooting film, so. 107 00:03:52.321 --> 00:03:54.927 (classical music) 108 00:03:54.927 --> 00:03:58.140 So, over the process of weeks, or months, 109 00:03:58.140 --> 00:04:00.130 or years in some cases, 110 00:04:00.130 --> 00:04:02.980 you narrow it down to those few images 111 00:04:02.980 --> 00:04:05.020 and start making larger prints from those. 112 00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:06.280 Scanning the neg in. 113 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:07.700 Well, at least for analogue, when I made them, 114 00:04:07.700 --> 00:04:08.880 so putting them in the enlarger, 115 00:04:08.880 --> 00:04:13.230 and my heat proofs in the darkroom processing machine. 116 00:04:13.230 --> 00:04:16.450 And yeah, I narrowed it down to three. 117 00:04:16.450 --> 00:04:17.950 I couldn't get it down to one. 118 00:04:18.900 --> 00:04:21.890 And that's how the process worked. 119 00:04:21.890 --> 00:04:24.530 And the actual prints are the main thing for me. 120 00:04:24.530 --> 00:04:27.000 The object, and having that kind of, 121 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:30.310 the scale and the presence of the object 122 00:04:30.310 --> 00:04:32.253 is the ultimate part of it for me. 123 00:04:34.284 --> 00:04:36.190 That's why I often say to people 124 00:04:36.190 --> 00:04:38.190 that I make objects that happen to be photographs, 125 00:04:38.190 --> 00:04:40.430 because, I mean, I know that if I can find something else 126 00:04:40.430 --> 00:04:45.430 that was more, just fell less short for me, 127 00:04:46.410 --> 00:04:49.180 I would move to that medium. 128 00:04:49.180 --> 00:04:51.190 Some other medium that brings you closer 129 00:04:51.190 --> 00:04:55.092 to things you don't even understand, and you go to that. 130 00:04:55.092 --> 00:04:59.405 So, I can't remember the question. (laughs) 131 00:04:59.405 --> 00:05:00.238 That's fantastic, 132 00:05:00.238 --> 00:05:02.605 you answered the question perfectly. 133 00:05:02.605 --> 00:05:05.438 line:15% (classical music)