WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.900 --> 00:00:06.480 Hello and welcome to the National Portrait Gallery. 2 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:08.537 We're so happy that you could join us here today 3 00:00:08.537 --> 00:00:10.850 for this conversation between an artist 4 00:00:10.850 --> 00:00:14.100 and a subject from our Darling Portrait Prize. 5 00:00:14.100 --> 00:00:16.720 A couple of things before we get started. 6 00:00:16.720 --> 00:00:19.420 If you haven't already put your screen into speaker mode, 7 00:00:19.420 --> 00:00:22.357 you might like to toggle that in the top right hand 8 00:00:22.357 --> 00:00:23.270 corner of your screen. 9 00:00:23.270 --> 00:00:26.030 And also we would really appreciate it if you kept 10 00:00:26.030 --> 00:00:28.950 your microphones on mute throughout the discussion, 11 00:00:28.950 --> 00:00:31.310 but we'd really encourage you to enter any questions 12 00:00:31.310 --> 00:00:33.223 that you might have of our guests here today 13 00:00:33.223 --> 00:00:35.840 into the chat box, which is accessible 14 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:39.190 on the bottom menu bar on your screen. 15 00:00:39.190 --> 00:00:41.610 If you're gonna do that, maybe give it a crack now 16 00:00:41.610 --> 00:00:45.110 and let us know perhaps where you're dialing in from today. 17 00:00:45.110 --> 00:00:47.350 We're always really keen to hear where our audiences 18 00:00:47.350 --> 00:00:50.920 are coming from for these virtual conversations. 19 00:00:50.920 --> 00:00:53.750 Particularly if you're joining us from our friends 20 00:00:53.750 --> 00:00:55.690 in Melbourne who are in lockdown at the moment 21 00:00:55.690 --> 00:00:58.310 or in lockdown anywhere around the world. 22 00:00:58.310 --> 00:01:00.960 And we really hope that you're staying safe and well. 23 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:04.340 If you would like to find out more about 24 00:01:04.340 --> 00:01:05.650 our virtual conversations, 25 00:01:05.650 --> 00:01:08.930 we're holding a lot more of these virtual events now, 26 00:01:08.930 --> 00:01:12.550 our website address is portrait.gov.au 27 00:01:12.550 --> 00:01:15.239 You can sign up for our emails or you can follow us 28 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:18.281 on all our socials @PortraitAu 29 00:01:18.281 --> 00:01:21.020 So we'll get cracking - at the end of the conversation. 30 00:01:21.020 --> 00:01:22.610 I'm gonna throw in any questions 31 00:01:22.610 --> 00:01:24.480 that you might have to our guests. 32 00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:27.250 So please do communicate with us. 33 00:01:27.250 --> 00:01:29.490 We'd love this to be an open dialogue between 34 00:01:29.490 --> 00:01:31.300 our audiences and our guests. 35 00:01:31.300 --> 00:01:33.370 I'm just gonna pass you over to Karen Vickery now, 36 00:01:33.370 --> 00:01:35.837 who's going to introduce our speakers to you. 37 00:01:39.530 --> 00:01:40.760 Thank you, Gill. 38 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:43.170 Well, welcome everybody, my name is Karen. 39 00:01:43.170 --> 00:01:45.310 I'm the Director of Learning and Visitor Experience 40 00:01:45.310 --> 00:01:46.770 at the National Portrait Gallery. 41 00:01:46.770 --> 00:01:48.870 And it's a great pleasure to be here today 42 00:01:48.870 --> 00:01:51.263 with these two lovely gentlemen. 43 00:01:52.170 --> 00:01:54.860 But before I introduce you to them, 44 00:01:54.860 --> 00:01:57.873 I would like to have an acknowledgement. 45 00:01:58.800 --> 00:02:02.000 The National Portrait Gallery acknowledges the traditional 46 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:05.780 custodians of country throughout Australia 47 00:02:05.780 --> 00:02:08.330 and recognizes their continuing connection 48 00:02:08.330 --> 00:02:11.963 to lands, waters and communities. 49 00:02:12.870 --> 00:02:15.600 We pay our respect to Aboriginal 50 00:02:15.600 --> 00:02:20.030 and Torres Strait Islander elders, the custodians 51 00:02:20.030 --> 00:02:23.083 and the elders both past and present. 52 00:02:24.900 --> 00:02:28.700 Now to introduce you, first of all, 53 00:02:28.700 --> 00:02:33.060 the artwork itself. "Post-show blues" by our artist, 54 00:02:33.060 --> 00:02:38.060 Liam Nunan painted in 2019. 55 00:02:38.320 --> 00:02:40.170 So I'll tell you a little bit about Liam, 56 00:02:40.170 --> 00:02:42.689 but I'm gonna have to ask Liam to hold my things. 57 00:02:42.689 --> 00:02:43.522 Yeah, yeah. 58 00:02:43.522 --> 00:02:45.222 So I can put my glasses on. 59 00:02:45.222 --> 00:02:48.970 Cause they're both very prolific and successful people. 60 00:02:48.970 --> 00:02:51.614 So this is Liam Nunan, welcome Liam. 61 00:02:51.614 --> 00:02:52.447 Thank you. 62 00:02:52.447 --> 00:02:55.930 And I had the privilege of working with both Liam 63 00:02:55.930 --> 00:03:00.110 and Guy many years ago, supposedly as one of their teachers, 64 00:03:00.110 --> 00:03:03.610 but you know, they taught themselves very effectively, 65 00:03:03.610 --> 00:03:05.880 very talented men, both of them. 66 00:03:05.880 --> 00:03:10.150 Liam describes himself as being relatively new to painting. 67 00:03:10.150 --> 00:03:15.105 However, in 2019, he won The Lester Prize for Portraiture 68 00:03:15.105 --> 00:03:18.078 for a painting of Johnny Hawkins. 69 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:23.670 So for a newbie, he's doing incredibly well 70 00:03:23.670 --> 00:03:24.840 and to have a portrait in 71 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:26.880 the Darling Portrait Prize is fantastic. 72 00:03:26.880 --> 00:03:28.260 So congratulations- Thank you. 73 00:03:28.260 --> 00:03:30.980 On both of those achievements, Liam. 74 00:03:30.980 --> 00:03:34.700 So Liam originally came from Brisbane and he moved to Sydney 75 00:03:34.700 --> 00:03:37.700 to study at the National Institute of Dramatic Art, 76 00:03:37.700 --> 00:03:41.810 better known as NIDA, in about 2010. 77 00:03:41.810 --> 00:03:43.160 He's a very successful actor. 78 00:03:43.160 --> 00:03:45.130 He's worked for Belvoir Theatre Company, 79 00:03:45.130 --> 00:03:47.300 the National Theater of Parramatta, 80 00:03:47.300 --> 00:03:49.440 the Malthouse Theater in Melbourne, 81 00:03:49.440 --> 00:03:53.469 Queensland Theater Company, among others. 82 00:03:55.085 --> 00:04:00.085 And also on screen, you may have encountered Liam's work, 83 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:03.030 but in more recent times, 84 00:04:03.030 --> 00:04:06.620 he has been combining his professional acting career 85 00:04:06.620 --> 00:04:09.673 with a serious career as a portrait artist. 86 00:04:10.650 --> 00:04:13.342 And for our subject Guy, welcome Guy. 87 00:04:13.342 --> 00:04:14.600 Thank you. 88 00:04:14.600 --> 00:04:19.300 Guy is an actor as well and also trained at NIDA. 89 00:04:19.300 --> 00:04:21.630 And this is where these two gentlemen met. 90 00:04:21.630 --> 00:04:24.452 So they've known each other since 2010. 91 00:04:24.452 --> 00:04:25.952 Ten years? 92 00:04:25.952 --> 00:04:28.370 Yes, yeah, it's an anniversary. 93 00:04:28.370 --> 00:04:29.620 (all laughs) 94 00:04:29.620 --> 00:04:30.996 Guy is a Birripi Man from the great lakes region 95 00:04:30.996 --> 00:04:34.810 of the Northern Coast in New South Wales. 96 00:04:34.810 --> 00:04:37.110 He graduated from NIDA in 2010. 97 00:04:37.110 --> 00:04:38.810 So Liam was coming to study 98 00:04:38.810 --> 00:04:42.040 and Guy was in his final year at that time. 99 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:44.040 Now Guy's a hugely successful actor. 100 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:47.450 He was in a Cloudstreet at the Malthouse Theater, 101 00:04:47.450 --> 00:04:50.170 Harp in the South at Sydney Theater Company. 102 00:04:50.170 --> 00:04:52.229 He's worked for the Griffin Theater. 103 00:04:52.229 --> 00:04:54.548 He's worked for Belvoir Theater. 104 00:04:55.710 --> 00:04:56.737 He's also... 105 00:04:56.737 --> 00:04:59.140 Oh yes, Queensland Theater Company, 106 00:04:59.140 --> 00:05:01.040 Guy was one of the styles of Black Diggers, 107 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:03.780 which was a fabulous production. 108 00:05:03.780 --> 00:05:08.077 And also you may know Guy from many appearances on screen, 109 00:05:08.077 --> 00:05:13.077 including Redfern Now, the ABC and Blackfella films series, 110 00:05:13.747 --> 00:05:15.824 which was fabulous. 111 00:05:15.824 --> 00:05:20.387 2017 Guy won the Helpmann Award - congratulations Guy. 112 00:05:20.387 --> 00:05:21.220 Thank you. 113 00:05:21.220 --> 00:05:24.137 As best actor in a supporting role in a play 114 00:05:24.137 --> 00:05:28.670 for Jasper Jones, which he performed at MTC. 115 00:05:28.670 --> 00:05:30.040 And so without further ado, 116 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:32.440 I'd like to introduce you to these two wonderful 117 00:05:32.440 --> 00:05:35.690 young artists... and they're flatmates. 118 00:05:35.690 --> 00:05:36.523 Yes. 119 00:05:36.523 --> 00:05:38.450 So they know each other extremely well. 120 00:05:38.450 --> 00:05:41.530 And I think what we'd like to hear first of all, 121 00:05:41.530 --> 00:05:44.150 is maybe what inspired you Liam, 122 00:05:44.150 --> 00:05:46.070 to paint your flatmate, Guy. 123 00:05:46.070 --> 00:05:47.980 I'm going to get out of the picture. 124 00:05:47.980 --> 00:05:48.880 Thank you, Karen. 125 00:05:51.141 --> 00:05:56.141 I mean I've painted all my housemates now 126 00:05:56.310 --> 00:06:01.001 just because they're there and I make them sit for me 127 00:06:01.001 --> 00:06:04.770 to draw and practice with and everything like that. 128 00:06:04.770 --> 00:06:07.540 First of all I started painting probably 129 00:06:07.540 --> 00:06:10.320 coming up to about two years ago now. 130 00:06:10.320 --> 00:06:12.814 In about 2017, I started going 131 00:06:12.814 --> 00:06:14.170 to a lot of life drawing classes 132 00:06:14.170 --> 00:06:16.800 and then a friend got me into painting. 133 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:20.940 And from there it was kind of like who I can get to sit 134 00:06:20.940 --> 00:06:23.020 for me for extended amounts of time. 135 00:06:23.020 --> 00:06:25.435 And being a housemate, it's a lot easier 136 00:06:25.435 --> 00:06:27.420 just to be like, clearly, "can you just sit there 137 00:06:27.420 --> 00:06:30.348 and play PlayStation, PlayStation Nint- 138 00:06:30.348 --> 00:06:31.792 Nintendo. - Nintendo. 139 00:06:31.792 --> 00:06:33.706 Get it right. - I always get it wrong. 140 00:06:33.706 --> 00:06:34.539 (laughs) 141 00:06:34.539 --> 00:06:36.930 So I'd known I'd wanted to paint Guy for a while. 142 00:06:36.930 --> 00:06:41.449 And I did try a few times before this 143 00:06:41.449 --> 00:06:42.890 very unsuccessfully. 144 00:06:42.890 --> 00:06:47.823 I just kept trying to overthink ideas 145 00:06:47.823 --> 00:06:50.070 and concepts, 146 00:06:50.070 --> 00:06:52.770 taking lots of photos and getting him to sit for me 147 00:06:52.770 --> 00:06:54.424 in different ways. 148 00:06:54.424 --> 00:06:55.810 And then I kinda just put that idea to rest 149 00:06:55.810 --> 00:06:57.680 for a little while. 150 00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:00.990 And then yes, I saw the Darling Prize was coming up 151 00:07:00.990 --> 00:07:04.700 and I was like, this is one, I'm gonna do Guy for this one. 152 00:07:04.700 --> 00:07:09.010 And yeah, on the day I think his bedroom 153 00:07:09.010 --> 00:07:10.950 has the best light in the house. 154 00:07:10.950 --> 00:07:13.777 So I was pretty much well, "We'll do it out there." 155 00:07:13.777 --> 00:07:15.441 And I went up to set up my drawing stuff 156 00:07:15.441 --> 00:07:17.665 and he was just playing Nintendo. - Yeah. 157 00:07:17.665 --> 00:07:19.808 So I was like, "Oh, this is actually a really 158 00:07:19.808 --> 00:07:23.546 nice color palette, kind of, the wall 159 00:07:23.546 --> 00:07:25.877 and the shirts and everything like that." 160 00:07:25.877 --> 00:07:29.260 And it kind of just started from there, took a few shots, 161 00:07:29.260 --> 00:07:31.970 did some sketches and that sort of thing. 162 00:07:31.970 --> 00:07:35.953 Quite often with, I think... 163 00:07:35.953 --> 00:07:39.136 when I try and put a concept into, 164 00:07:39.136 --> 00:07:41.140 I mean, of course there is a concept to the painting 165 00:07:41.140 --> 00:07:44.800 or an idea of Post-show blues, which I've called it. 166 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:47.620 Usually the idea of what the painting is about, 167 00:07:47.620 --> 00:07:50.970 sort of comes out while I'm working on the painting. 168 00:07:50.970 --> 00:07:55.820 It's kind of just what sort of I find is filling my brain 169 00:07:55.820 --> 00:07:57.590 while I'm working on it, which kind of, 170 00:07:57.590 --> 00:08:02.089 I think just becomes imbued into the painting itself. 171 00:08:03.330 --> 00:08:08.114 So I knew I wanted to do something 172 00:08:08.114 --> 00:08:09.255 of Guy 173 00:08:09.255 --> 00:08:11.760 in a way that people aren't used to seeing him, 174 00:08:11.760 --> 00:08:14.885 he's a performer, so lots of people are seeing him 175 00:08:14.885 --> 00:08:16.920 in performance mode on stage. 176 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:19.890 So I wanted to do something a bit more domestic 177 00:08:19.890 --> 00:08:22.806 and intimate and non-performative. 178 00:08:24.520 --> 00:08:28.460 And Guy and I have talked a lot in the past, 179 00:08:28.460 --> 00:08:31.060 I mean, a lot of actors do it's a very sort of 180 00:08:31.060 --> 00:08:34.800 up and down industry and you know, 181 00:08:34.800 --> 00:08:38.700 one minute you're working and the next three months 182 00:08:38.700 --> 00:08:41.030 you're not and, you know, 183 00:08:41.030 --> 00:08:43.673 driving delivery vans and stuff like that. 184 00:08:43.673 --> 00:08:47.100 So it's kind of it can be difficult at times 185 00:08:47.100 --> 00:08:51.113 to kind of balance your life in that regard. 186 00:08:52.031 --> 00:08:56.740 So the painting is sort of the kind of the aftermath 187 00:08:56.740 --> 00:09:01.702 of finishing a play and where it kind of leaves you 188 00:09:01.702 --> 00:09:04.463 after those really intense highs. 189 00:09:06.090 --> 00:09:09.930 I mean, I think after a play, 190 00:09:09.930 --> 00:09:12.350 you've talked about it in the past. - Yeah. 191 00:09:12.350 --> 00:09:14.414 How you kind of quite often for me, I mean, 192 00:09:14.414 --> 00:09:16.550 I know that I'll be awake until probably four in the morning 193 00:09:16.550 --> 00:09:18.660 and then I'll go to sleep and wake up mid day 194 00:09:18.660 --> 00:09:20.480 and get ready to do another show. 195 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:21.951 Yeah. 196 00:09:21.951 --> 00:09:23.877 Yeah, it sounds like you- 197 00:09:23.877 --> 00:09:27.870 Cause it's such a unique thing. 198 00:09:27.870 --> 00:09:30.991 Like people would speak about Post-show blues 199 00:09:30.991 --> 00:09:34.390 in this way that it was quite common. 200 00:09:34.390 --> 00:09:39.390 And I was experiencing this thing after the show 201 00:09:39.660 --> 00:09:41.810 had run it season or whatever, and I'm just like, 202 00:09:41.810 --> 00:09:45.300 this doesn't feel like what everyone else is going through. 203 00:09:45.300 --> 00:09:47.290 Like, "What is it?" 204 00:09:47.290 --> 00:09:51.510 And it all kind of started around Jasper Jones. 205 00:09:51.510 --> 00:09:56.250 Cause I did a season at Belvoir and then did a season at MTC 206 00:09:56.250 --> 00:09:58.490 and then went back to Belvoir. 207 00:09:58.490 --> 00:10:03.137 And so I'd racked up more than a 100 shows or whatnot. 208 00:10:03.137 --> 00:10:06.660 And every show was this- 209 00:10:06.660 --> 00:10:08.610 Very intense, quite - Yeah. 210 00:10:08.610 --> 00:10:11.116 Emotionally I'd be like, "Whoa." 211 00:10:11.116 --> 00:10:12.500 like at the end of the night. 212 00:10:12.500 --> 00:10:16.730 And so the preparation for that would... 213 00:10:16.730 --> 00:10:18.690 the show would start at, what, 214 00:10:18.690 --> 00:10:21.932 7:30, so at five o'clock I'd mentally 215 00:10:21.932 --> 00:10:24.270 be getting myself into this thing. 216 00:10:24.270 --> 00:10:27.060 And then going into the theater, warming up, 217 00:10:27.060 --> 00:10:29.740 doing this whole thing so from five o'clock 218 00:10:29.740 --> 00:10:33.710 until like 10 o'clock or something was this whole period 219 00:10:33.710 --> 00:10:36.910 of, you know, being in this character or warming up 220 00:10:36.910 --> 00:10:38.580 for it or whatever, 221 00:10:38.580 --> 00:10:41.560 I wasn't doing any thing to get out of it. 222 00:10:43.067 --> 00:10:45.430 And so it wasn't until I was doing, 223 00:10:45.430 --> 00:10:47.340 I don't know if I have we spoken 224 00:10:47.340 --> 00:10:49.790 about what happened at MTC? 225 00:10:49.790 --> 00:10:51.020 Do tell. No. 226 00:10:51.020 --> 00:10:55.303 Well, I was on stage and 227 00:10:55.303 --> 00:10:59.453 cause I was using, to get myself 228 00:10:59.453 --> 00:11:04.230 to that emotional state, when I was first doing it, 229 00:11:04.230 --> 00:11:07.860 I was available to just start crying or whatever. 230 00:11:07.860 --> 00:11:09.670 And then I would start resolving that 231 00:11:09.670 --> 00:11:12.536 and I'm like, "How did the tears come out?" 232 00:11:12.536 --> 00:11:16.010 And so I was using, you know, that opportunity 233 00:11:16.010 --> 00:11:19.890 to mourn my grandmother or like people that I knew. - Yep 234 00:11:19.890 --> 00:11:23.510 And then that was muddying with the character stuff. 235 00:11:23.510 --> 00:11:25.560 And then on stage I had this moment, 236 00:11:25.560 --> 00:11:28.290 like towards the end of the play where I had a suicidal 237 00:11:28.290 --> 00:11:30.310 thought and it took me to this place 238 00:11:30.310 --> 00:11:32.940 where it was like void of any emotion. 239 00:11:32.940 --> 00:11:35.940 And I was like, "I wanna die, 240 00:11:35.940 --> 00:11:37.347 I wanna kill myself." 241 00:11:37.347 --> 00:11:39.514 And then I caught myself doing that. 242 00:11:39.514 --> 00:11:40.355 Yeah. 243 00:11:40.355 --> 00:11:41.188 And then I was like, "Stop it, stop it." 244 00:11:41.188 --> 00:11:42.960 So I was having this like 20 minute conversation, 245 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:44.360 well, it felt like that on stage, 246 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:46.430 which probably lasted for a second. 247 00:11:46.430 --> 00:11:48.550 And I was like, "The audience can see it." 248 00:11:48.550 --> 00:11:51.200 And then I had to go off stage and then finish the play 249 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:53.060 and I cried and then went off. 250 00:11:53.060 --> 00:11:58.015 And then after that it just kind of snowballed. 251 00:11:58.015 --> 00:12:01.195 And then, because I was doing it for so long 252 00:12:02.070 --> 00:12:06.750 and had that whole like five o'clock till like 10 o'clock 253 00:12:06.750 --> 00:12:10.121 of warming up after the play finished, 254 00:12:10.121 --> 00:12:12.810 like the week after that from five o'clock, 255 00:12:12.810 --> 00:12:16.922 til 10 o'clock where I was like living back, living my life. 256 00:12:16.922 --> 00:12:19.470 I was getting this anxiety where I would usually feel 257 00:12:19.470 --> 00:12:22.740 that of like, you know, getting ready for something. 258 00:12:22.740 --> 00:12:26.447 And then after that was Harp in the South, 259 00:12:26.447 --> 00:12:29.520 which was like a six-hour play, and then Cloudstreet, 260 00:12:29.520 --> 00:12:31.320 which was a six-hour play. 261 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:34.845 So then my warmup would start two hours before 262 00:12:34.845 --> 00:12:37.572 at two o'clock show going to 10 o'clock 263 00:12:37.572 --> 00:12:38.853 or something like that. 264 00:12:38.853 --> 00:12:41.642 So it'd be a whole day of this thing where- 265 00:12:41.642 --> 00:12:44.200 Cause you've gotta sort of acclimatize the day 266 00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:47.695 so that your peak energy level lens at the point 267 00:12:47.695 --> 00:12:48.933 that you need it to. 268 00:12:48.933 --> 00:12:49.874 Yeah, exactly. 269 00:12:49.874 --> 00:12:52.451 And when you're doing that months and months in 270 00:12:52.451 --> 00:12:53.284 Yeah. 271 00:12:53.284 --> 00:12:55.015 it kind of really shakes you up. 272 00:12:55.015 --> 00:12:57.555 Yeah, and so when that season finished, 273 00:12:57.555 --> 00:13:00.164 like for at least two or three weeks, 274 00:13:00.164 --> 00:13:04.008 I'd be getting this like anxiety type thing of like, 275 00:13:04.008 --> 00:13:06.360 I should be doing a show, but I know I'm not supposed to be, 276 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:08.050 I should be at the theater. 277 00:13:08.050 --> 00:13:10.330 That day after it closes is the weird day 278 00:13:10.330 --> 00:13:13.727 when it's like 7:30 and you're like, 279 00:13:13.727 --> 00:13:15.632 "I should be like, my body is used 280 00:13:15.632 --> 00:13:18.162 to like being- peaking right now." 281 00:13:18.162 --> 00:13:19.670 Yeah, I mean like, do you feel 282 00:13:19.670 --> 00:13:21.800 that kind of thing after the show? 283 00:13:21.800 --> 00:13:25.310 Yeah, usually for like a week or so or something. 284 00:13:25.310 --> 00:13:27.940 I mean I've never done a show quite as long 285 00:13:27.940 --> 00:13:31.740 in terms of months that you have, 286 00:13:31.740 --> 00:13:33.740 and back to back as well. 287 00:13:33.740 --> 00:13:36.997 So I feel like, you know, a couple of days of feeling sad, 288 00:13:36.997 --> 00:13:41.597 the show's over, but never anything quite that intense, 289 00:13:41.597 --> 00:13:42.702 I suppose, yeah. 290 00:13:42.702 --> 00:13:44.637 Yeah, so it was just really full on. 291 00:13:44.637 --> 00:13:46.985 And so then, (laughs) 292 00:13:46.985 --> 00:13:49.650 because I'd always had game consoles and stuff 293 00:13:49.650 --> 00:13:52.390 and like touring life, it's so hard to pack 294 00:13:52.390 --> 00:13:56.570 this big computer in your bag and you'd have a laptop 295 00:13:56.570 --> 00:13:58.320 and stuff, but like a console or whatever. 296 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:01.620 But as soon as the Nintendo Switch came out, it was like, 297 00:14:01.620 --> 00:14:04.333 you could put the console there and then you could put it 298 00:14:04.333 --> 00:14:06.066 in your pocket and you can put it everywhere. 299 00:14:06.066 --> 00:14:07.699 And I was like, "Give me one of those." 300 00:14:07.699 --> 00:14:10.300 So using that and then I could use 301 00:14:10.300 --> 00:14:12.185 that to busy my brain. 302 00:14:12.185 --> 00:14:14.890 And sort of slowly decompress. - Yeah. 303 00:14:14.890 --> 00:14:16.144 After show. - Yep. 304 00:14:16.144 --> 00:14:18.779 So that's how I dealt with it. - Yeah. 305 00:14:18.779 --> 00:14:21.450 Yeah, so that's kind of the mode 306 00:14:21.450 --> 00:14:24.371 in which I wanna sort of capture him in 307 00:14:24.371 --> 00:14:28.346 So you're flatmates, old friends. - Yeah. 308 00:14:28.346 --> 00:14:30.740 So you were aware of some of the things 309 00:14:30.740 --> 00:14:32.530 that Guy so generously shared with us 310 00:14:32.530 --> 00:14:34.139 that he was going through 311 00:14:34.139 --> 00:14:36.149 that were really personal, really difficult. 312 00:14:36.149 --> 00:14:36.982 Yep. 313 00:14:36.982 --> 00:14:39.362 So was that partly what was informing 314 00:14:39.362 --> 00:14:40.711 your desire to paint him? 315 00:14:40.711 --> 00:14:43.070 Yes, yeah, I mean, like I said, 316 00:14:43.070 --> 00:14:46.144 I had already wanted to paint him before that, 317 00:14:46.144 --> 00:14:47.770 as I am sort of, 318 00:14:47.770 --> 00:14:49.770 I do count myself as relatively new to painting 319 00:14:49.770 --> 00:14:51.720 and I'm only sort of starting to get used to now 320 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:56.060 what my kind of M.O. is in terms of what I like to paint 321 00:14:56.060 --> 00:14:58.350 and I've tried to move away sometimes 322 00:14:58.350 --> 00:14:59.620 and it never quite works. 323 00:14:59.620 --> 00:15:02.513 And I kind of get, keep getting drawn back to a more, 324 00:15:04.400 --> 00:15:09.193 I don't want to say somber, but more, a private moment. 325 00:15:11.207 --> 00:15:12.950 An unperformed moment. 326 00:15:12.950 --> 00:15:15.143 A lot of the other people that I paint 327 00:15:15.143 --> 00:15:15.990 as well are actors as well. 328 00:15:15.990 --> 00:15:18.870 So yeah, I wanna be able to share 329 00:15:18.870 --> 00:15:22.810 just a moment of something that's not usually shared 330 00:15:22.810 --> 00:15:25.475 and that touch more vulnerable. 331 00:15:26.916 --> 00:15:29.261 So I think that, I knew that was the sort of direction 332 00:15:29.261 --> 00:15:31.553 I wanna go to, but yes, as I was painting it, 333 00:15:31.553 --> 00:15:36.553 I sort of went into the idea of after the show, 334 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.480 when that finishes, that kind of, 335 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:43.730 what do you fill your time with and where does that energy 336 00:15:43.730 --> 00:15:45.680 go and that character and that kind of mourning, 337 00:15:45.680 --> 00:15:49.740 that character that was alive for you, you know, it was, 338 00:15:49.740 --> 00:15:54.003 it seemed, you know, it takes a huge part of you, yeah. 339 00:15:56.811 --> 00:15:59.610 So Guy, were you aware of what Liam 340 00:15:59.610 --> 00:16:04.060 was trying to capture, that sense of you in this state? 341 00:16:04.060 --> 00:16:05.600 Or was it candid? 342 00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:07.710 What was the experience like? 343 00:16:07.710 --> 00:16:10.906 It was almost like, cause I was, no, it was, 344 00:16:10.906 --> 00:16:12.360 (laughs) 345 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:16.280 it was like, usually when Liam's sketches me 346 00:16:16.280 --> 00:16:18.017 or paint me or something, he's like, 347 00:16:18.017 --> 00:16:20.674 "Okay, so we'll just talk on some Netflix or something." 348 00:16:20.674 --> 00:16:22.150 or like we'd be at the pool or in the backyard. 349 00:16:22.150 --> 00:16:24.835 And he's like, "Do you mind if I sketch you?" 350 00:16:24.835 --> 00:16:27.001 So this for me, he was just like, 351 00:16:27.001 --> 00:16:30.090 yeah, just play your Nintendo and I'll- 352 00:16:30.090 --> 00:16:33.422 It's sort of like, yeah, it's easier to kind of, 353 00:16:33.422 --> 00:16:36.269 I'm always worried about asking to paint people 354 00:16:36.269 --> 00:16:37.859 and making them sit there for ages. 355 00:16:37.859 --> 00:16:40.250 So when I feel like it they're engaged in something, 356 00:16:40.250 --> 00:16:43.693 it's a lot easier for me as well to not feel like 357 00:16:43.693 --> 00:16:45.928 I have this huge time constraint 358 00:16:45.928 --> 00:16:49.450 because they're not comfortable or anything like that, 359 00:16:49.450 --> 00:16:51.820 but yeah, on the day that we did it, 360 00:16:51.820 --> 00:16:54.190 Guy was certainly not in that sort of state. 361 00:16:54.190 --> 00:16:55.930 He really was sitting there and playing Nintendo, 362 00:16:55.930 --> 00:16:57.620 Yeah, just playing, just going for it. 363 00:16:57.620 --> 00:16:58.453 Yeah. 364 00:16:59.790 --> 00:17:02.753 Yeah, but it's usually though, 365 00:17:02.753 --> 00:17:06.936 cause I kind of get what Liam's going for, 366 00:17:06.936 --> 00:17:11.903 not this pose type thing of just like, 367 00:17:11.903 --> 00:17:14.820 you like that candid type thing. 368 00:17:14.820 --> 00:17:19.080 So usually whenever you've painted or sketched 369 00:17:19.080 --> 00:17:23.020 it's me in this distracted moment or not distracted, 370 00:17:23.020 --> 00:17:25.700 but like a busy type thing. 371 00:17:25.700 --> 00:17:26.980 So I was kind of used to it. 372 00:17:26.980 --> 00:17:27.813 Yeah. 373 00:17:28.777 --> 00:17:32.534 So Liam, you're a successful portrait artist. 374 00:17:32.534 --> 00:17:36.930 Tell us about how you, well you became an actor, 375 00:17:36.930 --> 00:17:37.763 Yeah. 376 00:17:37.763 --> 00:17:40.800 How is it that you chose portraiture? 377 00:17:40.800 --> 00:17:43.200 What was it that made you want to do that? 378 00:17:44.842 --> 00:17:46.110 I mean, first of all, 379 00:17:46.110 --> 00:17:49.236 I did a lot of drawing and painting in high school 380 00:17:49.236 --> 00:17:51.569 and I knew loved art, I loved doing it. 381 00:17:51.569 --> 00:17:54.005 And for some reason I didn't go down that avenue. 382 00:17:54.005 --> 00:17:57.210 So I kind of already knew that I had that kind of impulse 383 00:17:57.210 --> 00:18:00.723 to draw, at least draw at that stage. 384 00:18:01.860 --> 00:18:04.660 And yeah, in about 2017, 385 00:18:04.660 --> 00:18:09.370 a friend took me to life drawing class and I just loved it. 386 00:18:09.370 --> 00:18:12.760 It was kind of- being an actor, you kind of sit around, 387 00:18:12.760 --> 00:18:15.330 waiting so long for other people to validate you 388 00:18:15.330 --> 00:18:18.370 by just getting an audition for something 389 00:18:18.370 --> 00:18:20.520 and just dying to be creative 390 00:18:20.520 --> 00:18:23.260 and not really feeling you're given the opportunity 391 00:18:23.260 --> 00:18:25.240 and you just sort of feel like you're waiting 392 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:26.400 all the time for something. 393 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:28.470 So it was kind of really good to find something 394 00:18:28.470 --> 00:18:31.853 that I felt like I was creatively in charge of. 395 00:18:34.085 --> 00:18:37.363 So that's where that kind of fled. 396 00:18:38.423 --> 00:18:42.580 I knew that I liked drawing people and faces 397 00:18:42.580 --> 00:18:46.070 and I'm not sure why, I'm sure I did try some still life. 398 00:18:46.070 --> 00:18:48.517 And I found that deathly boring. 399 00:18:48.517 --> 00:18:50.752 So I just kind of stuck with drawing 400 00:18:50.752 --> 00:18:54.827 and then a friend of mine... 401 00:18:54.827 --> 00:18:56.330 Oh, what came first? 402 00:18:56.330 --> 00:18:57.943 No, I sorta, I knew that I wanted 403 00:18:57.943 --> 00:18:59.403 to push onto painting somehow. 404 00:18:59.403 --> 00:19:01.508 I didn't really know how and I went and did like a one week 405 00:19:01.508 --> 00:19:05.580 course at NAS and I just got used to oils and I was quite 406 00:19:05.580 --> 00:19:10.160 surprised at what I could do in a short amount of time. 407 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:12.404 And I was like, I'm gonna do this. 408 00:19:12.404 --> 00:19:14.060 I'm gonna really give it a go. 409 00:19:14.060 --> 00:19:17.734 So I got a little studio space in Newtown 410 00:19:17.734 --> 00:19:21.109 and I was like, "I'm gonna rent it for a couple of months 411 00:19:21.109 --> 00:19:23.186 and just see if this works for me." 412 00:19:23.186 --> 00:19:26.026 And I found myself going there every spare moment 413 00:19:26.026 --> 00:19:29.363 that I had, and the first person I got to sit for me 414 00:19:29.363 --> 00:19:31.010 was my friend Johnny Hawkins. 415 00:19:31.010 --> 00:19:33.880 And that was the first portrait I'd really completed 416 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:36.500 and put into the Lester Prize. 417 00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:40.239 And since then, I've just been really keen to keep, 418 00:19:40.239 --> 00:19:42.680 I'm not sure what it is, I don't really know what it is, 419 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:44.040 but I love painting actors. 420 00:19:44.040 --> 00:19:45.980 I think for that reason that I can show something 421 00:19:45.980 --> 00:19:47.840 that other people aren't necessarily used 422 00:19:47.840 --> 00:19:50.947 to being able to see, that performance mode. 423 00:19:52.588 --> 00:19:56.674 Yeah, so I think that answers the question? 424 00:19:56.674 --> 00:19:57.507 Yeah. 425 00:19:57.507 --> 00:20:01.610 Yeah, it does, I saw an image of you on social media 426 00:20:01.610 --> 00:20:04.920 at your studio and you looked incredibly happy, 427 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:07.490 which was wonderful, but you also were wearing gloves 428 00:20:07.490 --> 00:20:10.570 and you were talking about a reaction you were having 429 00:20:10.570 --> 00:20:13.090 to some of the materials you were using. 430 00:20:13.090 --> 00:20:15.840 Yeah, I've been told everyone that I've spoken 431 00:20:15.840 --> 00:20:18.271 to that I kind of was told to use gloves 432 00:20:18.271 --> 00:20:20.980 before I even started oil painting. 433 00:20:20.980 --> 00:20:24.730 There's specific colors that can have different reactions 434 00:20:24.730 --> 00:20:26.822 because of the different types of things 435 00:20:26.822 --> 00:20:28.155 the pigment comes from. 436 00:20:28.155 --> 00:20:29.667 I'm not a scientist or a chemist, 437 00:20:29.667 --> 00:20:31.208 so I don't know completely. 438 00:20:31.208 --> 00:20:32.041 (both laugh) 439 00:20:32.041 --> 00:20:34.685 But I do know early on I was getting a lot of paint 440 00:20:34.685 --> 00:20:36.970 on my skin and just getting little, 441 00:20:36.970 --> 00:20:39.220 little rashy things or the tiny things that I'm just like, 442 00:20:39.220 --> 00:20:41.000 maybe that's from the paint, I'm not sure. 443 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:45.432 So I've just started to be a lot more careful, you know, 444 00:20:45.432 --> 00:20:46.689 where I get it. 445 00:20:46.689 --> 00:20:48.819 I still, I don't think I have an item of clothing 446 00:20:48.819 --> 00:20:51.120 that doesn't have a little bit of paint on it now, but- 447 00:20:51.120 --> 00:20:52.522 You're an artist aren't you? 448 00:20:52.522 --> 00:20:55.350 Yeah, I know, I just splashed my jeans just a little bit 449 00:20:55.350 --> 00:20:58.560 and just look really cool walking around Newtown. 450 00:20:58.560 --> 00:21:00.674 I belong here. (both laugh) 451 00:21:00.674 --> 00:21:04.830 Yeah, yeah, so I mean, I'll always wear gloves 452 00:21:04.830 --> 00:21:08.080 and often look in the mirror at the end of the day 453 00:21:08.080 --> 00:21:10.652 and I've got on my face, freak out. 454 00:21:10.652 --> 00:21:12.832 (both laugh) 455 00:21:12.832 --> 00:21:14.790 Guy, you're really familiar 456 00:21:14.790 --> 00:21:17.470 with being photographed and having to do publicity 457 00:21:17.470 --> 00:21:18.780 and all those sorts of things, 458 00:21:18.780 --> 00:21:20.950 probably more than most of us. 459 00:21:20.950 --> 00:21:25.463 But is it different to see yourself portrayed 460 00:21:25.463 --> 00:21:27.720 in a portrait in this way and particularly 461 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:29.930 one that's done by someone you're close to? 462 00:21:29.930 --> 00:21:33.200 Yeah, completely, just that, 463 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:34.892 if there's a photo of something, 464 00:21:34.892 --> 00:21:38.060 someone can get an angle with you 465 00:21:38.060 --> 00:21:39.700 and play with the light or something 466 00:21:39.700 --> 00:21:41.210 and get some sort of aesthetic. 467 00:21:41.210 --> 00:21:46.210 But with this you can see how somebody sees you. 468 00:21:46.970 --> 00:21:48.876 Do you know what I mean? 469 00:21:48.876 --> 00:21:53.103 Like I've done a couple of like 470 00:21:53.103 --> 00:21:57.955 character building and stuff with- 471 00:21:59.120 --> 00:22:00.253 With photos? 472 00:22:00.253 --> 00:22:03.540 Yeah and especially with like, 473 00:22:03.540 --> 00:22:08.310 just recently I was playing someone with schizophrenia 474 00:22:08.310 --> 00:22:11.580 and like turning to portraits that people 475 00:22:11.580 --> 00:22:15.740 who have had schizophrenia that they've done 476 00:22:15.740 --> 00:22:18.950 in terms of like what they see and using that 477 00:22:18.950 --> 00:22:20.040 to get in their head. 478 00:22:20.040 --> 00:22:22.210 And I was like, "Oh, that's so interesting." 479 00:22:22.210 --> 00:22:23.650 It's the same thing with this. 480 00:22:23.650 --> 00:22:26.030 Like you can see how somebody sees you 481 00:22:26.030 --> 00:22:30.580 and just that light and you know what I mean? 482 00:22:30.580 --> 00:22:33.415 Like, well, the portrait is never, also, 483 00:22:33.415 --> 00:22:35.660 it's never just a portrait of the subject. 484 00:22:35.660 --> 00:22:38.667 I think it's always a portrait of the artist as well. 485 00:22:38.667 --> 00:22:40.810 Yeah - It's partly self portrait because it's always 486 00:22:40.810 --> 00:22:44.321 gonna be through the lens of whoever did the work. - Yep. 487 00:22:44.321 --> 00:22:46.580 So whether, I mean to, or not, 488 00:22:46.580 --> 00:22:50.020 there's always gonna be my kind of take 489 00:22:50.020 --> 00:22:53.910 on who you are or who the subject is. 490 00:22:53.910 --> 00:22:56.690 Yeah, and that's what I really like about it. 491 00:22:56.690 --> 00:22:59.163 And especially because my friend's done it, 492 00:22:59.163 --> 00:23:03.110 like you can see through them. I dunno, 493 00:23:03.110 --> 00:23:04.860 that sounds a bit like, (sings) "Doo, doo, doo, doo" 494 00:23:04.860 --> 00:23:06.630 But like, - You can see right up in there 495 00:23:06.630 --> 00:23:08.857 You know what I mean? 496 00:23:08.857 --> 00:23:12.939 And just the, like how you, I don't know. 497 00:23:12.939 --> 00:23:13.947 I really like... 498 00:23:15.322 --> 00:23:16.922 I really liked, I don't know, 499 00:23:16.922 --> 00:23:18.840 it sounds like such a wanky thing, 500 00:23:18.840 --> 00:23:22.890 but I really enjoy seeing myself 'cause another friend 501 00:23:22.890 --> 00:23:25.849 has done it and you get to see yourself 502 00:23:25.849 --> 00:23:30.715 through someone else's eyes. Through their brain. 503 00:23:30.715 --> 00:23:33.206 Yeah, I mean, it's gonna be so incredibly different. 504 00:23:33.206 --> 00:23:35.739 Yeah, completely. - Yeah 505 00:23:35.739 --> 00:23:39.689 I started watching, there's this TV show on 506 00:23:39.689 --> 00:23:43.110 it's on SBS, on demand called Portrait Artist Of The Year. 507 00:23:43.110 --> 00:23:46.160 Some of you have seen it and they'll have 508 00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:48.930 one sort of celebrity seat and a whole bunch 509 00:23:48.930 --> 00:23:51.025 of artists sit around and paint them. 510 00:23:51.025 --> 00:23:52.710 And it's just incredible to kind of, 511 00:23:52.710 --> 00:23:55.130 you don't even think that you have a style or anything until 512 00:23:55.130 --> 00:24:00.130 you kind of start, like other people will see it - Yeah 513 00:24:00.560 --> 00:24:02.250 when you can't, but it's really interesting 514 00:24:02.250 --> 00:24:04.700 sort of being able to see people's different 515 00:24:04.700 --> 00:24:05.995 takes on someone. 516 00:24:05.995 --> 00:24:08.305 There is something that I really like about your stuff, 517 00:24:08.305 --> 00:24:10.700 especially like you just sketches and whatnot, 518 00:24:10.700 --> 00:24:14.892 you get limbs and hands and fingers and toes and stuff. 519 00:24:14.892 --> 00:24:16.637 Like, I don't know that the attention to detail 520 00:24:16.637 --> 00:24:18.871 I love drawing them, and I hate painting them. 521 00:24:18.871 --> 00:24:19.704 Oh yeah, right. 522 00:24:19.704 --> 00:24:20.771 I don't know (overlapping) - They're hard. 523 00:24:20.771 --> 00:24:22.578 I think you really got my hands there. 524 00:24:22.578 --> 00:24:23.978 Actually these are the easiest hands- 525 00:24:23.978 --> 00:24:26.016 I'm always drawn to that there. 526 00:24:26.016 --> 00:24:28.350 Yeah. I don't know this painting 527 00:24:28.350 --> 00:24:29.820 took me like four days to do, 528 00:24:29.820 --> 00:24:31.940 which is like nothing compared 529 00:24:31.940 --> 00:24:33.110 to some of the other paintings 530 00:24:33.110 --> 00:24:35.020 I've spent months on some of them. 531 00:24:35.020 --> 00:24:39.983 And I was really quite happy with how quickly I did that. 532 00:24:39.983 --> 00:24:41.416 (both laugh) 533 00:24:41.416 --> 00:24:43.580 Cause I was like, "Oh God, this is going to be 534 00:24:43.580 --> 00:24:45.439 like four weeks on the hands alone." 535 00:24:45.439 --> 00:24:47.105 But yeah, some days you have good days, 536 00:24:47.105 --> 00:24:49.060 where it just happens really fast. 537 00:24:49.060 --> 00:24:54.060 And then weeks months of nothing sometimes, yeah. 538 00:24:56.757 --> 00:24:59.909 So maybe Liam, tell me about the relationship 539 00:24:59.909 --> 00:25:03.320 between being an actor yourself and a portrait artist. 540 00:25:03.320 --> 00:25:06.850 How do you see those things connecting or different? 541 00:25:06.850 --> 00:25:11.825 I think that a lot of my work 542 00:25:11.825 --> 00:25:13.408 as a portrait artist 543 00:25:13.408 --> 00:25:16.039 or what I'm trying to become as a portrait artist 544 00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:21.039 started with acting like the investigation of character 545 00:25:22.099 --> 00:25:25.913 and nuance of character, that all started with acting 546 00:25:25.913 --> 00:25:30.046 and the study of 547 00:25:30.046 --> 00:25:32.029 theater and character 548 00:25:32.029 --> 00:25:33.220 and all that sort of thing. 549 00:25:33.220 --> 00:25:35.880 So I think that's just sort of intensified 550 00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:40.865 or I was already interested in people and behavior, 551 00:25:40.865 --> 00:25:44.660 and how much of a story you can tell 552 00:25:44.660 --> 00:25:46.730 with as little as you can. 553 00:25:46.730 --> 00:25:50.220 I think that's been helpful, you know, 554 00:25:50.220 --> 00:25:52.876 having that kind of background, yeah. 555 00:25:54.175 --> 00:25:57.162 I've got a couple of questions coming through 556 00:25:57.162 --> 00:25:59.837 from our virtual audience. (laughs) 557 00:25:59.837 --> 00:26:01.790 And also potentially relative. 558 00:26:01.790 --> 00:26:05.021 (sings) Oh. - Say their name, who is it? 559 00:26:05.021 --> 00:26:09.925 Oh, not a question from relative yet, but an observer. 560 00:26:09.925 --> 00:26:10.758 (chuckles) 561 00:26:10.758 --> 00:26:14.440 One of the first questions is what sort of games, 562 00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:17.016 and I'm assuming- (laughs and claps) 563 00:26:17.016 --> 00:26:18.803 I knew this question was gonna come. 564 00:26:18.803 --> 00:26:20.328 Right before this, I was like, 565 00:26:20.328 --> 00:26:22.818 "Someone who's gonna ask what games you play." 566 00:26:22.818 --> 00:26:24.040 But there's a second question, 567 00:26:24.040 --> 00:26:25.090 second part of that question. 568 00:26:25.090 --> 00:26:28.110 Do you find yourself analyzing performances in the games 569 00:26:28.110 --> 00:26:30.960 you play or is it strictly just for an escape? 570 00:26:32.176 --> 00:26:33.551 Huh. 571 00:26:34.770 --> 00:26:35.754 Cause you did- 572 00:26:35.754 --> 00:26:38.293 Analyzing my own performance or like, 573 00:26:39.270 --> 00:26:42.320 What was the, do you remember what game game that was? 574 00:26:42.320 --> 00:26:45.535 You were very into unnamed goose game at the time. 575 00:26:45.535 --> 00:26:46.368 (laughs) 576 00:26:46.368 --> 00:26:49.160 Yeah, the goose game where you, 577 00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:51.080 I think I was either playing that or Animal Crossing, 578 00:26:51.080 --> 00:26:53.990 but the goose game I was addicted to because you play 579 00:26:53.990 --> 00:26:56.620 this goose who just goes around town, 580 00:26:56.620 --> 00:26:59.956 like stealing pies and bells and like- (audience laughs) 581 00:26:59.956 --> 00:27:01.335 I don't get the point at all but. 582 00:27:01.335 --> 00:27:04.180 And just honking at people. 583 00:27:04.180 --> 00:27:06.267 I was just like, that was distracting me. 584 00:27:06.267 --> 00:27:09.450 And it was great, but Animal Crossing as well, like you, 585 00:27:09.450 --> 00:27:13.170 you're this little person that goes into... on this Island 586 00:27:13.170 --> 00:27:16.050 and you make all these friends and you build up this Island 587 00:27:16.050 --> 00:27:19.416 and you sell apples and stuff like that. (audience laughs) 588 00:27:19.416 --> 00:27:22.770 But other times I really liked like Zelda 589 00:27:22.770 --> 00:27:24.070 where I'm slashing people. 590 00:27:24.070 --> 00:27:25.290 Okay. 591 00:27:25.290 --> 00:27:26.716 Killing things. 592 00:27:26.716 --> 00:27:27.791 Yep. 593 00:27:27.791 --> 00:27:32.791 But do I analyze the performances in the games- 594 00:27:32.791 --> 00:27:34.643 Recently you were talking about what was that? 595 00:27:35.700 --> 00:27:38.850 Sort of zombie one or something just about a month ago 596 00:27:38.850 --> 00:27:41.200 and you were like obsessed with the storyline of it 597 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:44.160 and the kind of graphics of it all. 598 00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:46.292 And the performance of it, I guess. 599 00:27:46.292 --> 00:27:47.570 The Last of Us, that's a PlayStation game. 600 00:27:47.570 --> 00:27:48.403 Right. 601 00:27:48.403 --> 00:27:49.628 Not Nintendo (audience laughs) 602 00:27:49.628 --> 00:27:51.278 but they... 603 00:27:51.278 --> 00:27:54.253 the character acting in that is amazing. 604 00:27:54.253 --> 00:27:56.929 Cause they, they do the mo-cap type thing. 605 00:27:56.929 --> 00:27:57.978 Mo-cap, what is- 606 00:27:57.978 --> 00:27:59.265 Motion Capture. - Oh! 607 00:27:59.265 --> 00:28:00.098 (both laughs) 608 00:28:00.098 --> 00:28:01.480 For those who don't know. 609 00:28:01.480 --> 00:28:02.420 Have you done any of that? 610 00:28:02.420 --> 00:28:03.681 where they- 611 00:28:03.681 --> 00:28:04.514 No, I wish. 612 00:28:04.514 --> 00:28:06.200 I've got so many actor friends that get all that work. 613 00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:09.815 Yeah, I'm not symmetrical enough. 614 00:28:09.815 --> 00:28:10.770 (chuckles) 615 00:28:10.770 --> 00:28:12.410 But they, The Last of Us. 616 00:28:12.410 --> 00:28:15.330 Yeah, I analyze those performances and stuff. 617 00:28:15.330 --> 00:28:17.643 If it's a game like that, that's what I do. 618 00:28:18.573 --> 00:28:20.539 I've got a question for Liam. 619 00:28:20.539 --> 00:28:21.372 Yeah. 620 00:28:21.372 --> 00:28:23.110 How do you know when a portrait is finished? 621 00:28:23.110 --> 00:28:23.943 Oh! 622 00:28:24.801 --> 00:28:28.610 I'll usually think the portrait is finished 623 00:28:28.610 --> 00:28:30.240 and then I'll come back the next- 624 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.726 and then it begins a new phase where it's like, 625 00:28:33.726 --> 00:28:35.863 I will take a photo of that portrait 626 00:28:35.863 --> 00:28:36.779 and I will go home, 627 00:28:36.779 --> 00:28:37.612 and for about three days, 628 00:28:37.612 --> 00:28:39.990 I'll be obsessively looking at it and I'll get my little 629 00:28:39.990 --> 00:28:41.650 paint function out and circle bits. 630 00:28:41.650 --> 00:28:42.960 And going no, that's got to lift. 631 00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:44.120 That's going to go down. 632 00:28:44.120 --> 00:28:47.750 So to nip and tuck it kind of thing on my screen. 633 00:28:47.750 --> 00:28:50.220 And then I'll go in and make tiny little adjustments 634 00:28:50.220 --> 00:28:53.373 and do that again and that will last sometimes weeks. 635 00:28:54.246 --> 00:28:57.236 I didn't do that with this, I really, 636 00:28:57.236 --> 00:29:00.990 this didn't end up where I was expecting it to go, 637 00:29:00.990 --> 00:29:05.990 but I was really happy with how kind of halfway there, 638 00:29:06.450 --> 00:29:11.160 it was for me in terms of there's an unfinished quality 639 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:14.190 to it or something compared to some of my other work 640 00:29:15.115 --> 00:29:17.620 where I just felt like, "Stop it, put the brush down." 641 00:29:17.620 --> 00:29:22.270 Cause sometimes I've definitely gone too far sometimes 642 00:29:22.270 --> 00:29:24.660 and it takes a long... and where you think 643 00:29:24.660 --> 00:29:26.967 you're making it better and then you're like, 644 00:29:26.967 --> 00:29:28.300 "Oh God, have I had done? 645 00:29:28.300 --> 00:29:31.280 And then you spend four weeks trying to get back 646 00:29:31.280 --> 00:29:32.653 to what it was, yeah. 647 00:29:32.653 --> 00:29:33.486 (both laughs) 648 00:29:33.486 --> 00:29:36.000 That sort of leads into more of a comment 649 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:38.175 that has come from Anthea Da Silver, 650 00:29:38.175 --> 00:29:39.830 who is the winner of the Darling Portrait Prize, 651 00:29:39.830 --> 00:29:41.470 who's joining us today. 652 00:29:41.470 --> 00:29:44.068 And she said, "Congratulations on the hands. 653 00:29:44.068 --> 00:29:46.300 Great to know when to step away and go, "wow, got them." 654 00:29:46.300 --> 00:29:48.280 And then just leave them alone." 655 00:29:48.280 --> 00:29:50.454 I do have to say, cause this is the first time 656 00:29:50.454 --> 00:29:51.545 I've seen the exhibition today. 657 00:29:51.545 --> 00:29:55.040 And when you see them on your computer screen, 658 00:29:55.040 --> 00:29:57.810 you have very different ideas about all of them 659 00:29:57.810 --> 00:30:00.183 and which ones you're really drawn to. 660 00:30:01.056 --> 00:30:04.610 And I just, I mean, hers was one of my favorites, 661 00:30:04.610 --> 00:30:07.060 but having seen it in the flesh, 662 00:30:07.060 --> 00:30:10.760 it's just extraordinary and such a worthy winner. 663 00:30:10.760 --> 00:30:14.642 I think she's amazing. (To camera) You're amazing. 664 00:30:14.642 --> 00:30:15.475 (all laugh) 665 00:30:15.475 --> 00:30:16.576 I think so too. 666 00:30:17.510 --> 00:30:18.343 We've got a question, 667 00:30:18.343 --> 00:30:20.710 "Guy, You're the subject of Liam's art here. 668 00:30:20.710 --> 00:30:23.660 Do you have an example of when Liam has been the subject of, 669 00:30:23.660 --> 00:30:25.527 or inspiration for your art?" 670 00:30:27.120 --> 00:30:28.152 No, I don't. 671 00:30:28.152 --> 00:30:29.677 (both laugh) 672 00:30:29.677 --> 00:30:31.160 Based an characters on or...? 673 00:30:32.436 --> 00:30:37.436 For my art, for my art, I don't. 674 00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:40.997 Can you say that question again? 675 00:30:40.997 --> 00:30:41.830 Yeah, I can. 676 00:30:41.830 --> 00:30:43.678 You're the subject of Liam's art. 677 00:30:43.678 --> 00:30:44.511 Yeah. 678 00:30:44.511 --> 00:30:46.833 Do you have an example of when Liam 679 00:30:46.833 --> 00:30:49.637 has been the subject of, or inspiration for your art? 680 00:30:51.383 --> 00:30:52.800 I don't think I do. 681 00:30:52.800 --> 00:30:54.307 You're a bad friend. 682 00:30:54.307 --> 00:30:55.140 (all laughs) 683 00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:56.529 I don't know when I'm gonna use you 684 00:30:56.529 --> 00:30:58.965 as my character drop-ins. 685 00:30:58.965 --> 00:31:00.169 (both laughs) 686 00:31:00.169 --> 00:31:02.514 Liam, Liam, Liam, Liam, boof. 687 00:31:02.514 --> 00:31:04.539 (both laugh) 688 00:31:04.539 --> 00:31:07.505 No, I don't think I do... 689 00:31:08.416 --> 00:31:11.052 There've been a couple of times where... 690 00:31:14.044 --> 00:31:15.893 sometimes I use friends- have decide 691 00:31:15.893 --> 00:31:17.584 what they do, what would they do? 692 00:31:17.584 --> 00:31:19.510 There's been a couple of times, yeah. 693 00:31:19.510 --> 00:31:21.702 Energy-wise, you've got a, 694 00:31:21.702 --> 00:31:23.450 you've got a certain energy on stage. 695 00:31:23.450 --> 00:31:24.283 Right. 696 00:31:25.482 --> 00:31:26.920 That I used to siphon off. 697 00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:28.639 And just go, "Oh," how do like, 698 00:31:28.639 --> 00:31:30.320 "What would Liam do" in terms of like that. 699 00:31:30.320 --> 00:31:34.690 You're really great on screen and using that, 700 00:31:34.690 --> 00:31:36.070 oh, there we go. 701 00:31:36.070 --> 00:31:38.178 Thinking about Liam too, 702 00:31:38.178 --> 00:31:42.990 in terms of like how quickly you can move on screen 703 00:31:42.990 --> 00:31:45.970 without making it too big. 704 00:31:45.970 --> 00:31:47.608 Right, okay, thank you. 705 00:31:47.608 --> 00:31:48.686 There we go. 706 00:31:48.686 --> 00:31:49.636 (all laugh) 707 00:31:49.636 --> 00:31:50.802 I hope my agent's watching. 708 00:31:50.802 --> 00:31:51.635 Yeah. 709 00:31:51.635 --> 00:31:52.468 (all laughs) 710 00:31:52.468 --> 00:31:55.134 He's great on screen. Give him a job. 711 00:31:56.540 --> 00:31:58.360 Liam, do you think you'll paint actors 712 00:31:58.360 --> 00:32:00.540 that you don't know or those that you only have 713 00:32:00.540 --> 00:32:03.630 a personal connection with or context with? 714 00:32:03.630 --> 00:32:06.160 I think I will and I have, I've been, 715 00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:10.780 I got commissioned to do a painting of beautiful Annie Byron 716 00:32:10.780 --> 00:32:12.810 who was an actress who I've known of, 717 00:32:12.810 --> 00:32:16.600 but I did not know. She made it very easy because I kind of, 718 00:32:16.600 --> 00:32:19.683 we had such a great rapport straight away when I met her. 719 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:25.620 I think it is easier to know the person. I think, 720 00:32:25.620 --> 00:32:30.537 but maybe not, I mean, I'd love to sort of 721 00:32:30.537 --> 00:32:33.960 stretch what I know I'm comfortable with doing 722 00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:37.158 and to be able to get sitters that I don't know. 723 00:32:37.158 --> 00:32:40.520 And, you know, I think that's just as interesting 724 00:32:40.520 --> 00:32:44.150 to be able to give my take on someone who I don't know, 725 00:32:44.150 --> 00:32:48.060 as well as someone like Guy, but yes, yes. 726 00:32:48.060 --> 00:32:50.673 I would love to one day, I'm sure, yeah. 727 00:32:52.840 --> 00:32:54.570 And Guy has this painting made 728 00:32:54.570 --> 00:32:56.712 you look at yourself differently? 729 00:33:00.210 --> 00:33:01.320 The posture. 730 00:33:01.320 --> 00:33:03.045 My posture. 731 00:33:03.045 --> 00:33:05.684 (all laughs) 732 00:33:06.709 --> 00:33:09.848 Has it made me look at myself differently? 733 00:33:10.970 --> 00:33:13.772 Those conversations opened up a lot more 734 00:33:13.772 --> 00:33:16.189 once we were talking about... 735 00:33:16.189 --> 00:33:17.200 So kind of you sort of- 736 00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:20.010 Yeah, I guess that's what it would be. 737 00:33:20.010 --> 00:33:25.010 Just not feeling like having to be some sort, 738 00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:29.390 like keeping it in and dealing with whatever 739 00:33:29.390 --> 00:33:31.356 it is by yourself. Like, 740 00:33:35.465 --> 00:33:37.278 What am I... 741 00:33:37.278 --> 00:33:39.732 Not romanticizing this whole thing 742 00:33:39.732 --> 00:33:42.820 of like the person who deals with it by themselves 743 00:33:42.820 --> 00:33:44.010 and then getting through it by themselves. 744 00:33:44.010 --> 00:33:46.250 It's like, no, like use other people with like, 745 00:33:46.250 --> 00:33:48.240 speak about it. - Yeah. 746 00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:49.950 And that was a good speaking point 747 00:33:49.950 --> 00:33:51.907 'cause I did come to you and say listen, 748 00:33:51.907 --> 00:33:53.707 I've got this idea where I think I wanna take it. 749 00:33:53.707 --> 00:33:56.250 And that kind of opened up a conversation going like, 750 00:33:56.250 --> 00:33:57.726 Well, what is it like for you? 751 00:33:57.726 --> 00:33:58.876 Yeah. 752 00:33:58.876 --> 00:34:01.050 Because I think that's kind of helps to be- 753 00:34:01.050 --> 00:34:01.883 Yeah. 754 00:34:02.967 --> 00:34:05.670 To be able to look back in that kind of way? 755 00:34:05.670 --> 00:34:09.830 Like, it's a good reminder just to talk about it 756 00:34:09.830 --> 00:34:12.150 because up until that point 757 00:34:12.150 --> 00:34:16.120 I guess I just kind of kept it to myself 758 00:34:16.120 --> 00:34:17.295 and kept it private. 759 00:34:17.295 --> 00:34:22.278 And only spoke to like, my partner or family or whatever. 760 00:34:23.230 --> 00:34:24.955 Or just someone who's caught me 761 00:34:24.955 --> 00:34:26.711 in a moment or, you know. 762 00:34:26.711 --> 00:34:27.544 Yep. 763 00:34:27.544 --> 00:34:30.501 But knowing that like it's so okay 764 00:34:30.501 --> 00:34:32.160 to talk about it. 765 00:34:32.160 --> 00:34:34.450 Yeah, it's yeah, it's funny 766 00:34:34.450 --> 00:34:37.140 how many people just recently with COVID and everything, 767 00:34:37.140 --> 00:34:38.960 the theater industry is just shut down, 768 00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:42.120 but how many people have likened it to how they're kind of 769 00:34:42.120 --> 00:34:43.710 what they're feeling at the moment. 770 00:34:43.710 --> 00:34:48.710 Just kind of like not able to create and you know that, 771 00:34:49.547 --> 00:34:52.590 yeah, the idea of "Post-show blues" is kind of amongst 772 00:34:52.590 --> 00:34:56.100 a lot of theater people and film people right now I think. 773 00:34:56.100 --> 00:35:00.000 Especially, you know, cause so many people, 774 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.953 a big part of your work is the dream time. 775 00:35:04.953 --> 00:35:07.423 And that is the preparation up until like, 776 00:35:07.423 --> 00:35:09.570 if you got a season happening in August, 777 00:35:09.570 --> 00:35:12.020 you'll spend all that month before like thinking 778 00:35:12.020 --> 00:35:13.710 about choices and whatnot. 779 00:35:13.710 --> 00:35:15.490 It's great, even if it's not for months away 780 00:35:15.490 --> 00:35:16.639 just knowing- - Yes. 781 00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:18.150 there's something coming. 782 00:35:18.150 --> 00:35:19.632 Yeah, and when your show's been axed 783 00:35:19.632 --> 00:35:22.981 there's your "Post-Show blues," what am I gonna do there? 784 00:35:23.830 --> 00:35:25.730 Use that time to talk about. 785 00:35:25.730 --> 00:35:29.545 You know? - Yeah. 786 00:35:29.545 --> 00:35:32.381 I guess, yeah, that's a good reminder. 787 00:35:34.080 --> 00:35:36.180 I was wondering any of the people, 788 00:35:36.180 --> 00:35:38.338 we have a few real life people. 789 00:35:38.338 --> 00:35:39.705 Wow, real life. 790 00:35:39.705 --> 00:35:42.350 I'm sure all those lovely people watching 791 00:35:42.350 --> 00:35:43.903 from home are also real life, 792 00:35:43.903 --> 00:35:46.955 but we have a few people in the flesh here and I'm wondering 793 00:35:46.955 --> 00:35:50.580 if they might like, or have a question for, yeah. 794 00:35:50.580 --> 00:35:51.800 I get to hold the mic? 795 00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:53.810 You get to hold the Microphone. 796 00:35:53.810 --> 00:35:56.170 What's next in both of your practices? 797 00:35:56.170 --> 00:35:58.653 Like what are you both working on at the moment? 798 00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:05.190 I am, well, acting-wise sort of nothing. 799 00:36:05.190 --> 00:36:08.251 I had a show canceled this year as everyone has, 800 00:36:08.251 --> 00:36:10.255 hopefully that's gonna be coming back next year, 801 00:36:10.255 --> 00:36:13.090 American Psycho, The Musical, 802 00:36:13.090 --> 00:36:14.740 which will be coming to Canberra. 803 00:36:15.860 --> 00:36:20.860 Yes, fingers crossed it'll, you know, things get better. 804 00:36:21.043 --> 00:36:24.759 Painting-wise, I'm currently doing a painting of my friend, 805 00:36:24.759 --> 00:36:28.670 an incredible person Wesley Enoch. 806 00:36:29.543 --> 00:36:33.310 And I think that actually might be my last portrait 807 00:36:33.310 --> 00:36:34.447 for a little while. 808 00:36:34.447 --> 00:36:36.750 Cause I've been wanting to be able to sort of try, 809 00:36:36.750 --> 00:36:38.410 not that I've had any experience in it yet, 810 00:36:38.410 --> 00:36:41.517 but to move into landscapes and abstract 811 00:36:41.517 --> 00:36:44.873 and I've got a real interest for that kind of painting. 812 00:36:44.873 --> 00:36:49.190 So I'm going to kind of, yeah, 813 00:36:49.190 --> 00:36:51.632 see where that takes me after this one. 814 00:36:52.680 --> 00:36:55.208 What have you got? What are you doing? 815 00:36:55.208 --> 00:36:57.907 Next week, August is the window. 816 00:36:57.907 --> 00:36:59.843 So everyone's like, "let's do it." 817 00:37:00.790 --> 00:37:03.307 I was filming a series just before COVID 818 00:37:03.307 --> 00:37:07.100 and that got paralyzed and now is the time to do it. 819 00:37:07.100 --> 00:37:10.631 So we're just about to go back in and do that. 820 00:37:10.631 --> 00:37:13.990 At the same time juggling rehearsals at Belvoir 821 00:37:13.990 --> 00:37:15.700 for My Brilliant Career, 822 00:37:15.700 --> 00:37:19.700 which we're gonna rehearse and keep it for when 823 00:37:19.700 --> 00:37:22.500 the theater opens, I guess. 824 00:37:23.458 --> 00:37:28.140 So busy, yeah. 825 00:37:28.140 --> 00:37:31.350 It's very weird to sort of tentatively prepare? 826 00:37:31.350 --> 00:37:33.160 Yeah. 827 00:37:33.160 --> 00:37:36.414 Not really knowing where things are gonna be 828 00:37:36.414 --> 00:37:37.670 in the next week, tomorrow? 829 00:37:37.670 --> 00:37:40.480 Cause it's weird, like the butterflies are just 830 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:42.279 kind of, like (makes noise) 831 00:37:42.279 --> 00:37:44.853 like usually they are (rolls tongue) let's fly in formation, 832 00:37:44.853 --> 00:37:46.080 come on, let's go. 833 00:37:46.080 --> 00:37:49.370 But it's just kind of, they're just there. 834 00:37:49.370 --> 00:37:51.670 It's kind of, it's nice I guess. 835 00:37:51.670 --> 00:37:55.230 Yeah, cause you know, you've got time. - And it's hopeful. 836 00:37:55.230 --> 00:37:56.063 Yeah. 837 00:37:57.270 --> 00:37:58.480 Cool, anyone else? 838 00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:00.530 Yeah, Neil, who's been one of our regulars 839 00:38:00.530 --> 00:38:03.438 on our virtual tours and virtual programs, hello Neil. 840 00:38:03.438 --> 00:38:04.271 Hi Neil. 841 00:38:04.271 --> 00:38:06.180 He said that, "With painting, 842 00:38:06.180 --> 00:38:09.025 what artists have inspired you in your painting?" 843 00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:15.840 I mean, I think the kind of pinnacle 844 00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:17.725 for me is Lucian Freud. 845 00:38:17.725 --> 00:38:20.410 I don't know how much he sort of comes across in my work, 846 00:38:20.410 --> 00:38:24.670 but I just never get sick of look... 847 00:38:24.670 --> 00:38:27.320 I could look at one of his paintings for days 848 00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:29.120 and just like never get tired of it. 849 00:38:32.104 --> 00:38:35.630 I'm, oh no, I'm going to say her name wrong. 850 00:38:35.630 --> 00:38:40.165 There's an artist, Loribelle Spirovski... 851 00:38:40.165 --> 00:38:41.790 I'm going to get trouble. 852 00:38:41.790 --> 00:38:45.340 Laura Bell, I'm going to say it wrong. Loribelle Spirovski 853 00:38:45.340 --> 00:38:48.040 I think, I think I'm probably saying it wrong, 854 00:38:48.040 --> 00:38:50.140 but I just, I absolutely adore her work. 855 00:38:50.140 --> 00:38:55.140 She sort of does sort of abstract portraiture and figurative 856 00:38:56.310 --> 00:38:59.685 kind of stuff, I think she's really, really fascinating. 857 00:38:59.685 --> 00:39:01.748 Neil loves Lucien Freud too 858 00:39:01.748 --> 00:39:03.553 and he thinks he comes across in your work. 859 00:39:03.553 --> 00:39:04.853 Thank you, Neil. 860 00:39:04.853 --> 00:39:06.290 (laughs) 861 00:39:06.290 --> 00:39:08.431 Any more questions from the audience 862 00:39:08.431 --> 00:39:09.856 before we wrap up? 863 00:39:09.856 --> 00:39:11.588 We probably have one time for one more. 864 00:39:14.080 --> 00:39:16.441 No, no questions? - Anyone? 865 00:39:16.441 --> 00:39:18.459 No worries, over to Karen. 866 00:39:18.459 --> 00:39:19.650 Karen, I'll give you the microphone darl. 867 00:39:19.650 --> 00:39:22.890 Thank you so much for, oh, sorry. 868 00:39:22.890 --> 00:39:24.770 I've got a big voice, it'll be okay. 869 00:39:24.770 --> 00:39:27.240 Thank you both so much for coming out, 870 00:39:27.240 --> 00:39:32.070 traveling and being with us today and sharing those really 871 00:39:32.070 --> 00:39:36.810 intimate insights actually into art and life 872 00:39:36.810 --> 00:39:40.470 and both your practices and your relationship 873 00:39:40.470 --> 00:39:42.040 to one another. 874 00:39:42.040 --> 00:39:44.840 I think it was a fantastic conversation. 875 00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:46.623 Thank you. - Yeah, thanks for having us. 876 00:39:46.623 --> 00:39:49.550 Yeah look, we wish you all the best with your projects, 877 00:39:49.550 --> 00:39:53.912 your theatrical projects and your film projects, both of you 878 00:39:53.912 --> 00:39:55.260 Thank you. 879 00:39:55.260 --> 00:39:58.154 But you too with your practice as an artist, 880 00:39:58.154 --> 00:40:00.400 because it's so exciting to see your success 881 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:04.210 and your growth and your passion and the beautiful work 882 00:40:04.210 --> 00:40:05.290 that you're producing. 883 00:40:05.290 --> 00:40:09.200 And it's just great to hear more about it from both of you. 884 00:40:09.200 --> 00:40:10.160 Thank you so much. 885 00:40:10.160 --> 00:40:11.413 Thank you, Karen. 886 00:40:11.413 --> 00:40:14.450 And thank you all for joining us today in real form. 887 00:40:14.450 --> 00:40:15.980 And in virtual form. 888 00:40:15.980 --> 00:40:17.130 We'll see you again soon. 889 00:40:17.130 --> 00:40:20.302 Thanks for coming to the National Portrait Gallery. 890 00:40:20.302 --> 00:40:21.588 Thank you. 891 00:40:21.588 --> 00:40:23.671 (laughs)