WEBVTT

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Good morning and welcome to the
National Portrait Gallery.

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My name is Sarah Oakes and I'm the Director of
External Relations here at the Gallery.

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Now we are at absolute capacity this morning, the
tickets to this session booked out in a matter

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of hours.

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So I know you are as excited as we are to launch
this very special work, the portrait of Tina

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Arena by Georges Antoni. Tina Arena celebrates 50
years in the Australian music industry next

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year and our exquisite new portrait of Tina commemorates
this moment and today with all

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of you present it officially becomes a part
of the national collection, a forever

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tribute to a national icon. Now for those joining
us online and I know there are many

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of you, I need to tell you that it is the most

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glorious day on Ngunnawal and Ngambri country. The
sun is shining, the air is crisp and the wattles

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are in bloom. So I'd like to start as we always
do by acknowledging the Ngunnawal and Ngambri

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people as the traditional custodians of the beautiful
land on which the gallery stands.

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It's a privilege to live and work on Ngunnawal and
Ngambri country and I'd like to acknowledge

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their continuing culture and the contribution they
make to the life in this city and region.

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I'd also like to acknowledge and welcome any
First Nations people here in the audience

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and attending online.

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Now a couple of quick housekeeping matters.

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For the first, for those in the room, phones on
silent, and for those online, mics on mute.

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Now unfortunately, we're not going to take questions
today, but do not fear because we are in the

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hands of our most eloquent and experienced moderator,
please give a warm welcome to the director

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of the National Portrait Gallery and your
host this morning, Bree Pickering.

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Please give a warm welcome to the artist we
are here to celebrate Georges Antoni.

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And double trouble, he is joined by our guest
of honour, Miss Tina Arena, ladies and

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gentlemen.

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Thank you everybody and now over to
your host and our director, Bree.

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Good morning everyone. Thank you so much for joining
us. You are in for a very special treat today.

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Tina Arena is an Australian icon.

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She has built an extraordinary and enduring career
that began when she was eight years old

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as a contestant and then a regular
performer on Young Talent Time.

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And that continues and is still going strong
to this day almost 50 years later.

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Her second album, which I know you all own, is Don't
Ask, and it was the highest selling album in

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Australia in 1995.

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That year she picked up five ARIA awards and
became the first woman in ARIA history.

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to win album of the year.

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In 2015, she was inducted into
the ARIA Hall of Fame,

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and a year later, recognized as a member
of the Order of Australia,

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for significant service to the
Australian music industry.

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Significant service doesn't really
cut it, though, is it?

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It's a little more than significant.

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Globally, she has achieved two World
Music Awards and a Brit,

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and in 2011, became the first Australian
awarded a knighthood

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of the French National Order of Merit for
her contribution to her contribution

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French culture. She has sold 10 million albums
worldwide to date and she's not slowing

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down.

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Well, I mean, we can get to that, Tina.

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Georges Antoni is a renowned Australian fashion
photographer who has worked continuously

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for magazines including Vogue, Harper's Bazaar,
Marie Claire, ID, V Magazine, NL,

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and has shot for fashion houses such
as Versace and Hugo Boss.

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and he's built a formidable list
of high-profile subjects,

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from Monica Bellucci to Rihanna and to Australian
icons to numerous to name.

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He's been on TV, and his work has appeared
on an Australian 50-cent piece,

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which I did not know, Georges,
and an Australian stamp.

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We have Georges' stunning portrait of the
late Carla Zampatti in the collection,

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but this is his very first commission
for the National Portrait Gallery.

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And the gallery's commissions are
the cornerstone of the National

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portrait collection. These are the works that
the gallery creates and that speak to

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Australian culture and history through the story of
an extraordinary individual and by the hand of an

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artist. You two have a very special connection
and in many ways your lives and careers have

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intersected even though you met for the very first time
on this shoot. So I'm going to encourage us to

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just let this conversation go
wherever it needs to go.

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Oh no. Oh, oh, yes, but, but

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There is some territory I'd like us to cover.

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I'd like us to talk about this portrait,
what it is and what it means to you.

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We have to talk about family and friends.

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And I'd like us to touch on some
career-defining moments,

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both in the past but now and
into the future if we can.

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I'm going to do a little bit of gentle guiding,

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but I'm guessing I'll also be just so enthralled
that I might forget what my job is

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and just be listening in. So
you've got to help me.

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Georges, I'm going to start with you.

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I'm going to start with you. Your career has been
extraordinary. As a fashion photographer,

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you've hit pretty much every mark that there is to
hit. But I'm guessing this shoot was no ordinary

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shoot. Can you tell us how you felt going into it
and a little bit about what the day was like?

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Absolutely. First of all, I'd like to thank
everyone for coming and listening to us.

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It's a really a big pleasure and an honour for you guys
all to be here, including everyone at home watching.

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I was so nervous.

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So I'm not the one that typically
gets nervous on a photo shoot,

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even with big celebrities, to be
honest, because I don't know,

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celebrities not something really
that rubs off on me very much.

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It's not something that's incredibly
important to me.

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But when it came to Tina, it
was very different for me.

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And it was different for me because I think,

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Tina, I met for the first time
on the shoot this year.

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year, technically. But I actually met
Tina when I was five years old.

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Because I used to boogie down with
Tina without her realising

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and my three older sisters, pretty much every
young talent time, as well as throughout

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every album. And so I feel like
Tina and I went through

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a number of bad fashion stages together without
Tina actually knowing about it.

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So I suppose what I'm trying to say is I don't typically
get nervous when I take celebrity portraits,

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but in this particular case I did because Tina was a
very important part of a formative time in my life

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and a formative time in my sister's lives.

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And I could see how much they looked up to you.

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And because they looked up to you, I looked
up to you, and then so on and so forth.

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So really, when I first got commissioned,
I didn't believe it.

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I thought my agent.

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was joking. And then once I came to terms
that it was actually real, there was an

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extreme level of nerves. So out of 10, probably
a 12. And then soon after that, it became

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pure excitement. And having had to do some research
on, some more deep research on Tina to make

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sure that I could, I could really
make the most of this portrait.

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began to really fall in love with not just the
artist that I'd grown up with, but I fell in

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love with the persona that you'd created in the
media. And I thought that it wouldn't get any

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better than that, that once I met you, it couldn't
really go any higher than that. But the thing,

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ladies and gentlemen, that I can assure you, having had
this six months with Tina, to get to this point,

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is as amazing as you think she is, you have absolutely
no idea until you really get to know her.

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So she has been the greatest, one of the
greatest privileges in my life.

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And I can answer the high points of my career.

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This is most certainly it.

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Oh, sure.

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Thank you.

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It's going to be an emotional ride, people.

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So come with us on this.

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Tina.

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I mean, you've been photographed.

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You wouldn't even be able to
count how many times.

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No, no, I wouldn't.

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What was your favourite thing
about the shoot day?

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I think, hi everyone, thank you for coming.

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There are a few things, clearly, being asked to take
a portrait for the National Portraits Gallery,

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which represents a part of

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in Australian culture was an
extraordinary honour.

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It's something I think I had quietly hoped for
for a few years and sort of wondered.

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I thought, well, I've kind of
been around for so long.

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I'm wondering why I'm not on those walls.

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You know, is something, have
I pissed somebody off?

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Have I said something that someone just goes,
oh, she's a pain in the ass, whatever.

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I guess I didn't believe it
either in the beginning.

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I thought, oh my God, this is really serious.

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I was nervous.

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And then as soon as they said to me, Georges Antoni
is going to photograph it, I automatically

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just went, holy shit.

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And then I went, okay, I'm not
going to research this man.

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I don't need to.

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His work speaks for itself.

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I think I looked at a couple of covers
and I went, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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No, that's it. He's going to be fine. And then
I thought, am I going to be up to par

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for Georges to be able to photograph me? Am
I going to be able to deliver for Georges

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so then that Georges can take an exquisite portrait?
Am I a good enough subject manner?

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Then when we got into the whole thing, I realized

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That in what it is that we do in art and in music,
if we do not have the right spirits

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around us and people with the right
intentions, it just doesn't work.

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Or what you see on a wall is just a manifestation
of something that is okay that we must do this.

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But the result of that work is what you see on a wall is just a manifestation
of something that is okay that we must do this, but the result of

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what it is because it was a bunch of people that
were chosen specifically to come together

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to capture me in a moment that would be able to
stand the test of time. And I really believe

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that that is something that can only really happen
when you have the right group of people

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that come together, that have the intention, the collective
intention, the collective intention,

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of creating something. So it's
not about our egos.

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I have an ego that is probably healthy.

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I don't think it's unhealthy.

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I still ask myself a lot of questions.

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I still go, am I going to be right?

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Am I going to be good enough for
this exquisite photographer

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to be able to be happy with what
I see on those walls?

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This portrait is what it is,

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it is what it is, ladies and gentlemen, because of
the extraordinary collective of individuals

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that enable these walls to be what it is that they
are, to tell the stories that they tell.

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Because you guys are exquisite humans.

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That's the first thing.

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Then you have a great photographer, which
is, it either works or it doesn't.

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It doesn't. And then you have the village that make you look great. Because I can't do this on my own. I'm shit. I can't do my hair. I
don't wear any makeup. You know, I'm always at home. I'm very natural. I can't wear makeup every day. It's not a part of who I am.

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So I was unbelievably fortunate to have all of these
people come together to create that body of

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work. It's more than the subject. It's
more. So, voila, that's it.

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That's it.

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Georges, maybe you could take us a little
bit through the creative process.

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I mean, one of the things at the National Portrait
Gallery is we work with artists all the time.

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And in the visual art world, there's this
real sense of like the solo genius.

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And what was so magical, I was present for this
shoot, and it's like a life highlight.

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I don't know how I'm going to top it.

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But this sense of collaboration
that was sitting there.

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And then Georges, the way you've talked
about how an image is constructed.

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I mean, you know who you are, you know
your talent, it's very clear,

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but you work in a way that draws all of these things
together that I think really are the magic

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that Tina's talking about. So, yeah,
can you take us through it?

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Thanks. First of all, thank you
for all the compliments.

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I don't know if my mum has been paying you girls,
but she's definitely not paid you enough.

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I think, do you know, I think a wonderful, to kind
of backtrack to a more philosophical perspective

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to discuss what Tina had so kindly
and eloquently said.

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I think there's two critical components to making

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a beautiful, honest portrait that hopefully
will stand the test of time.

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And I think the first, there needs to be a
generosity of spirit from the sitter.

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And Tina, you have that in abundance.

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And I think everyone realizes that within the first
two sentences of what you've said today,

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that your generosity of spirit is always there.

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So it's much easier for me when people
don't have that generosity of spirit

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for me to blame somebody else
if the portrait's bad.

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But you've got it, so I could only
blame myself if it went wrong.

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But you need another thing.

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And that other thing is, I mean, the Latin
term for it is consensus at Eden.

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But what that actually means is pretty
much a meeting of the minds.

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So I believe that a great portrait, especially a great
portrait that revolves around fashion and beauty,

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which we focused on for this one, is
really about, as a photographer,

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As a photographer, a lot of it, and creative
directors who are involved on the shoot.

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It's about conducting an orchestra.

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And it's about allowing, really, the most important
thing is getting the right people into the room.

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If you get the right people into the room and you
give them enough scope and enough energy

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and enough authority to be able
to influence what we do,

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then you typically will get something that is
unique and hopefully stands on its own.

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And the greatest gift.

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for people like us is that the work doesn't
look referenced, that it looks original.

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And I feel as though when you have everybody come in
and provide their own language to that situation,

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you automatically get something that
doesn't look referential.

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If I can just elaborate on what Georges is actually
saying, there's something I learnt in art

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that I think is really fundamental.

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And that is, is that I don't believe in micromanaging
artists and telling them what to do.

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I give them some sort of a brief and say what I'd really
like to achieve with this is such and such.

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and I just, if I walk into, I'm not going to sit and tell Georges
how to take his photo or micromanage him and go,

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I don't like my left side, I
don't like my right side.

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you can only shoot me from here.

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I'm like, well, all of, you know, that, you're walking
into a scenario with instant limitations.

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I can't do that.

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So I believe in letting the fashion,
the choice of the clothes,

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somebody take that initiative, and
then it is up to me to say,

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you know what, I really love that.

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I feel really comfortable in that, but I
actually don't feel as comfortable.

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feel as comfortable in this? Would it be possible
if we could try this and that? So it's a

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question of constant communication, respect for
one another, respect for their ability,

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because that's why you have chosen them to be a part
of this objective. So that's the way I feel.

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It's like someone's saying to me, oh,
trying to teach me how to sing.

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It's like, well, thanks. I mean, I'll take a note.
I've always taken constructive criticism.

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because I believe in it. I really
do. But at the end of the day,

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I believe in professionals doing
what it is that they do.

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And then if I'm not comfortable,

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there is a way in communicating
that in a loving way

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that doesn't make somebody feel inferior,

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it doesn't make them feel insecure,

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all of those things are very important.
So it's a constant,

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dance of communication and being
really free in your honesty,

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understanding that if you're not honest, you're
doing the entire project and injustice.

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So that's the way I felt.

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If I don't feel comfortable in something,
I'll say to Mikey, my stylist,

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Mikey, I don't feel comfortable in that.
I feel like mutton dressed as lamb.

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Because that's not what it is. I'm
not a fashion, I'm not a model.

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I'm a woman that loves fashion.

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fashion. I appreciate it. I grew up with a mother
who was a seamstress and a really good one.

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You know, and I just appreciate
all of that, you know.

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But I don't for one second think
that I'm a mannequin.

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Like I'm just like, Georges needs
to capture who I am.

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Not the bloody clothes or anything
else. It's me. It's the spirit.

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And that's what happened through that trust.

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It's just about trusting. And I do walk into whatever scenario,
I believe that I have to have trust and hope.

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And if I manifest that, it's usually what
happens. It's usually comes about.

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I think, sorry, just to also quickly add to
that, the beauty of the relationship was

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because we hadn't met, we'd spoken on the phone for 15
minutes beforehand, and so many people have asked,

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I've asked me since the portrait has been up, how many
times did you guys sit to get these photos?

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And I said, well, actually, we sat, we got pretty
much both of those photos in the first hour,

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and we didn't have to sit again to
take any further portraits.

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And I think a big reason for that is that we had
an immediate connection that is that is

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is stems from a similarity in backgrounds.

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Definitely a similarity in education,
that's for sure.

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Yep. And also, I think similar paths in trying
to create something that is truly unique.

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And I think when you both have that kind
of path that you're trying to take,

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you can follow each other's journey intimately with
through your own, through your own as well.

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And I feel as though that really got us
to where we needed to go, and that's

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that's why hopefully if you guys like the portrait,
that would be the result of it.

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If you don't, it was Tina's fault.

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We might come to the portrait, but I think,
Georges, we might digress back to family.

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Because one of the things on that day that was
so incredible was lunch, and sitting around

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the table together, and immediately, I mean, I was
just sort of a way, or to be honest, watching

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you two talk, but you talked about family, you talked
about food, you talked about food, you talked

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about your heritage is, and I wonder if you could
take us through, like, the synergies

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between the way you grew up and the differences
maybe and just what it means to you,

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and how it's influenced the kind
of art that you both make.

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Okay.

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Well, I come from a very, very, very, very big
Italian family, and music, art and food

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was very, very much a big part
of who we are, right?

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And even my friends, when we all come together,
you know, we'll either cook, we'll have food,

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I'll have a sponge in my hand, I'll clean up,
I'll feed them, I'll take away their plates

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before they're finished, because
it's got to be tidy.

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When we realize that, you know, I think our families,
we've been lucky to have a gift, which

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comes from somewhere else, but I think your
families help you either harness

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that or they don't. And I think that we come
from really loving families, our parents

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came here, mine came here with nothing, just a trunk
full of wedding presence and engagement

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presence and Linan and, you know, and things like that.
They had nothing. And so they built a life

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here and they integrated pretty successfully.
And it was always about

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the respect of family, because without those
foundations, I don't think that you're

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really able to build on character unless you're,
I don't know, I don't know, my family are

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the reason why I think I've still continued. So
Georges and I realized that our families are

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really similar in the way in which they see
things, our parents, our moms and dads,

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who love us through good, bad and indifferent.

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00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:58.000
and who are also ready to reprimand us,
too, when something's not right.

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My mother will still say, ah, what are you doing?

283
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You haven't coloured your hair.
You look like shit.

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Like, what are you doing?

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And I'm like, Mom, can't. She goes, no, no,
no, no, go get your hair coloured.

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Just go do it.

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So my mother's never really minced
her words, like, right?

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You know my mom, man. So my mom's just
like, straight down the line.

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And, you know, sometimes I go, well, I think
I would have preferred that rather than a

290
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mum may be saying to me, oh, darling, you're
amazing, you know, everything you do is

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00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:38.000
spectacular. And it's not. So it's interesting,
Tina. My mum is an exact

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combination of both of those things. I know. She's
sitting here in the second row. And so

293
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if everything, I'll walk in and I'll be exhausted,
I put on 15 kilos, my hair's, I look

294
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like the sixth member of the Jackson Five.

295
00:24:54.000 --> 00:25:00.000
I walk in home and mum goes, Habib, you look like
the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.

296
00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:04.000
You are so handsome. There's no one
as handsome as you in the world.

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You're lucky. But I don't get that.

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No, but then, no, but then in the same breath, Tina, in
the same breath, Tina, in the same breath, I'll say,

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I'll give my son, I don't know, a piece
of bread with toast. And she's like,

300
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That's so bad for him.

301
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:31.000
You need to give him olives.

302
00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:34.000
That's true.

303
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:36.000
So I get both sides of that.

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I think the one thing that the love of any family from
any ethnicity gives you, especially in our game,

305
00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:47.000
is a very real sense of perspective.

306
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Because I feel as though in the arts,
the thing that probably people,

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people don't consciously recognize when you're
an artist is that you really need to be

308
00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:04.000
getting things wrong in order to get them right.

309
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:08.000
I agree. I spent most of my life
getting shit wrong. Yeah.

310
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Seriously. Yeah. Or at least you need to be risking
everything to get it right. And that

311
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:18.000
means being risking to getting everything
wrong. So that requires a particular

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strength of character that I think is very much

313
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reinforced by if you want the safety net under the
trapeze, which is the love of your family.

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So if I ever slip off the trapeze, I always
know that I'm going to be caught.

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And what that does, it allows me to try a more risky
adventure on the next time I'm up there.

316
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And I think without that support, I would not have been
able to make any of the progress that I made.

317
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I know.

318
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I know that I would never have survived without
my family and my inner sanctum,

319
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my close friends.

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00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:06.000
There's something I've realized very recently, it
kind of dawned on me, and I'd never thought

321
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:09.000
about it before.

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00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:15.000
It actually really hit home with me in the recent
months of the sacrifices that I've made.

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And with those sacrifices comes an
enormous amount of loneliness.

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And I've experienced.

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00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:29.000
profound loneliness in these last five years
that I actually never thought I would.

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And whilst it's a really difficult thing to live through,
I also am grateful for the gift of understanding

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what that is, what loneliness actually means. And
that's what it requires to be a great artist.

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this enormous sacrifice.

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You put yourself out in a position of being
constantly ridiculed or celebrated.

330
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And you get lonely.

331
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:05.000
And people don't understand that because
the media creates these storylines

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and narratives that we lead extraordinary lives.

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00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:15.000
And we can lead beautiful lives if we've got
the right balance in our lives, right?

334
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:19.000
But also being somebody who's in the public,

335
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:26.000
in the public eye is also exposed to an
extraordinary amount of criticism

336
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:32.000
and particularly in a world today where you get
people that will sit behind a computer

337
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:38.000
and will write whatever they feel they want to because
they're not feeling good about themselves

338
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:42.000
and so they will project it on
whoever's in front of them

339
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:45.000
and just vomit that onto them.

340
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.000
And it's really, that's a difficult, that's
a difficult, that's a difficult,

341
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:51.000
it's a difficult thing to navigate through,

342
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:55.000
and to rise above that requires great strength,

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00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:58.000
which I'm learning to do every day.

344
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But, yeah, I don't know, I've derived a bit,

345
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:07.000
but it is sacrifice, it's phenomenal sacrifice,

346
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.000
and also the risk of going, I could
really get this wrong,

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00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:15.000
and if I do, I do, and it just is what it is,

348
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.000
or I might get it right.

349
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:19.000
But you have to make it.

350
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:25.000
a lot of mistakes before you get to a place
where you're really comfortable and go,

351
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:27.000
I'm comfortable now.

352
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:32.000
And I'm at a point in my life now where I
don't feel I need to impress anybody

353
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:37.000
other than just be good to myself
and not hard on myself.

354
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:43.000
Because as artists, we have like
these extrasensory antennas

355
00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:45.000
that are around us.

356
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:48.000
So we absorb so much.

357
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:49.000
We absorb so much.

358
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:53.000
good energy, we absorb very negative energy.

359
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:59.000
And it requires phenomenal work to
be able to work through that,

360
00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:03.000
to not allow the negativity to bring you down,

361
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:09.000
and to be able to harness that positivity
without it pushing you over the edge

362
00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:13.000
where your ego becomes so disproportionate

363
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:17.000
that you can no longer see the
forest from the trees.

364
00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:18.000
So for me, in order to keep my mind,

365
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:25.000
in order to keep my balance is that
I keep my life really simple.

366
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I'm in charge of my own life.

367
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:31.000
I've made my mistakes.

368
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:33.000
I've made some good choices.

369
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:37.000
And I try and surround myself with
really good people who love me

370
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:42.000
and people who have the courage

371
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:44.000
to tell me when something is wrong

372
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:47.000
and not to sit there and yes me to death.

373
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.000
Because the first person

374
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:51.000
that does that to me, I don't
want them in my life,

375
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:53.000
because they're not being honest to me.

376
00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:55.000
That's it.

377
00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:57.000
It's pretty simple.

378
00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:08.000
I think you'd both agree that great art

379
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:12.000
requires openness and vulnerability,

380
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:14.000
but you have to have quite a thick skin

381
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:17.000
to stay in that space for as long as you have,

382
00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:19.000
as long as you have, Tina.

383
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:22.000
Now, if you haven't seen the portrait,
I think that when you do,

384
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:29.000
openness, vulnerability, a sort of deep dive
into Tina's soul is what you'll see.

385
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:35.000
And as Georges said, these photographs maybe
happened in the first hour, but you took,

386
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:37.000
I mean, I don't know, hundreds, right?

387
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:39.000
How many photos did you take, Georges?

388
00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:42.000
Let's not discuss how bad I am
at getting focused, but...

389
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:46.000
These I hate to think, honestly.

390
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:47.000
I think it was.

391
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:52.000
like maybe, actually Johnny's here, he
would know, 4,000 maybe, I think.

392
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:54.000
Johnny, how many photos?

393
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:57.000
Five thousand photos.

394
00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:02.000
Three and a half thousand of them were
out of focus because I'm so blind.

395
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:10.000
You couldn't take out of focus if you tried,

396
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:12.000
smart ass.

397
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:14.000
Seriously.

398
00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:22.000
So this portrait is a dip-tick, so two
photographs making a single artwork.

399
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:27.000
So four and a half thousand photos,
how did you get there?

400
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:32.000
So it might have been me being a little bit
excited about the opportunity of shooting

401
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:34.000
to the arena that got us there.

402
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.000

ll I kept hearing was a ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch.

403
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:38.000
Oh my God.

404
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:41.000
I think that may have contributed
to that shot count.

405
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:44.000
But I'll tell you the interesting
thing was when I was,

406
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:51.000
I got together with Isobel to do the edit, excuse
me, you would think that you typically

407
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:57.000
would get 10 usable photos out of a portrait session,
if you're lucky, and then you begin

408
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:04.000
to look at the storytelling within those photos,
and then you begin to see if they depict what

409
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:11.000
we've discussed and whether it is a, shines a
light on the complexity of Tina's history

410
00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:13.000
in her 50 years and so on.

411
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:19.000
But we had 680 usable photos
that were all brilliant.

412
00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:22.000
And so...

413
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:23.000
Plenty of picks to throw darts at, kids.

414
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:30.000
Bullseye.

415
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:37.000
So it literally became a war of attrition
in trying to keep our eyes, you know,

416
00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:41.000
open to the subtleties for the next, you know,

417
00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:44.000
five hours of trying to choose
the right types of vote.

418
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:47.000
And even then we had to do it in stages.

419
00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:51.000
You should have seen me when I received
the first bunch of photos to approve.

420
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:53.000
They arrived in the computer and went,

421
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.000
I can't do that.

422
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.000
I can't, no, I freaked out.

423
00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:59.000
I was like, Michael, I said,
Michael, I can't do that.

424
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:00.000
I can't go through these things.

425
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:01.000
It's like, what do you mean?

426
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:02.000
I said, I can't.

427
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:05.000
I'm not sure I'm best placed for it.

428
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:10.000
I mean, I know, I know when I see great photos
because I've got an eye, right?

429
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:13.000
I can appreciate beauty and not only beauty,

430
00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:14.000
and not only beauty.

431
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:19.000
even something that's not beautiful,
but that talks to me.

432
00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:21.000
I can appreciate that.

433
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:25.000
But when I have to be constructive about me,

434
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:28.000
I'm like, man, I'm just not sure
I'm best place for that.

435
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:29.000
But you know, that's...

436
00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:32.000
Like really, it's tough.

437
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:34.000
That's an amazing gift to us,

438
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:36.000
that you do have that level
of separation between,

439
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.000
because many people in your situation

440
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:43.000
would be very concerned about
how people perceive them

441
00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:46.000
them in the way they like to be perceived.

442
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:48.000
Yeah, but that's too controlling, Georges.

443
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:53.000
Then what you do there is, again, you
are controlling a piece of art.

444
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:55.000
You can't control art.

445
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:57.000
It's something out of nothing.

446
00:34:57.000 --> 00:34:59.000
When we got into that room,
did we sit there and go,

447
00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:01.000
oh, we're going to get this portrait,

448
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:04.000
this is exactly what we're going to do, da-da-da,

449
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:05.000
and it's going to work.

450
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:07.000
You don't know how it's going to work.

451
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:09.000
You don't have a clue.

452
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:10.000
You just don't have a clue.

453
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.000
Well, I certainly don't.

454
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:13.000
And that's why I...

455
00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:19.000
I learned to trust because I feel
that that's the only way

456
00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:23.000
to create that beauty

457
00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:26.000
is by trusting somebody else,

458
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:29.000
giving them the impetus and the responsibility

459
00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:31.000
and going, no, you're good at this.

460
00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:33.000
This is what you do.

461
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:36.000
I trust that you will do the right thing.

462
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.000
Then if I see the photo and I go,

463
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.000
you know what, Georges, I'm not sure about that

464
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:42.000
because of ABC.

465
00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:46.000
of ABC. But I need to trust Georges.

466
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:50.000
Georges is the master in that. It's not me.

467
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.000
I'm not the master in that. I'm just the subject.

468
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:56.000
That's all.

469
00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:01.000
That you are far more than the subject because...

470
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:03.000
I'm a ball-breaker.

471
00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:05.000
Well, that's true.

472
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.000
Yeah, but you laugh.

473
00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:11.000
But I've got three older sisters
and I'm used to it.

474
00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:12.000
Exactly.

475
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:13.000
Exactly.

476
00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:14.000
You know exactly.

477
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:16.000
And they come from a matriarchal family
with a very strong wife.

478
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:19.000
That's why we get along, because
I'm one of three girls.

479
00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:25.000
You grew up with three sisters, so
we know the landscape very well.

480
00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:33.000
I do think that you, you know, you hit the
nail on the head where you said that we,

481
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:40.000
the level of trust is important because I feel like you
can tell a portrait story through first person,

482
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:41.000
which was you would be you selecting.

483
00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:47.000
you selecting and how you would perceive yourself
would impact that. I do think it's a very

484
00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:54.000
generous gift to both, you know, Isobel, the Portrait
of Gallery and Bree and I that you allowed

485
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:59.000
us that gift of interpreting you in third person.

486
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:05.000
And I feel as though there is a gift in that in
looking at those pictures because I think

487
00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:10.000
both those pictures have enough ambiguity to allow the
viewer to determine what they think you're thinking.

488
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:11.000
That is what.

489
00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:21.000
What I love about these photos is the fact that whoever
looks at them, they will have a feeling.

490
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:24.000
It'll evoke an emotion for them.

491
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:34.000
So the viewer has enough freedom to be able to feel
and look at it the way they want to look at it

492
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:40.000
and that the ambiguity is really what's
quite extraordinary in those photos.

493
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:50.000
I also know that when I'm looking at a photo and I
look at the subject, I know when it's contrived,

494
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:55.000
I can feel the contrived and the control
when I'm looking at the photo.

495
00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:57.000
It kind of slaps me in the face.

496
00:37:57.000 --> 00:37:59.000
I don't feel that with this.

497
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:05.000
I feel like every time you look at
it, you pick something new up.

498
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:08.000
That's amazing.

499
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:09.000
That's amazing.

500
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:10.000
That's like.

501
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:15.000
Thank you. We've done our jobs. Good
night, ladies and gentlemen.

502
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:17.000
Well, that's how I feel.

503
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:22.000
I'm getting the one more primarily. We
could definitely sit here all day.

504
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:24.000
I'd lost track of time.

505
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:29.000
Tina, I think it would be lovely
for everyone to hear

506
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:34.000
you walk us through what it was like seeing
that portrait for the first time.

507
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:37.000
Oh.

508
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:39.000
It was how was it that two, three weeks ago.

509
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:43.000
three weeks ago, the girl said,

510
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:47.000
Tina, we'd like you to come up,
you and Michael to come up,

511
00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:52.000
so we're going to reveal the portrait.

512
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:56.000
And I'm like, oh my God, okay,
get ready for this.

513
00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:59.000
So I psychologically had to prepare myself.

514
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:04.000
I thought, okay, I was nervous.

515
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:08.000
I was nervous because I loved the session

516
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:14.000
the session, but it still didn't mean that
I knew what it was going to be like.

517
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:17.000
So I arrived here in the morning.

518
00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:23.000
We came here, the girls, Sarah
and Bree and Isobel,

519
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:26.000
we all went downstairs into the archives,

520
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:30.000
and they kept me back in a room,
they held me in a room

521
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.000
till they got everything ready

522
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:34.000
and they set up all the crew and the camera

523
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:37.000
to capture my first reaction.

524
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:38.000
So I'm really.

525
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:44.000
I'm sitting there, I'm very nervous, I'm very nervous,
I'm pacing, I'm sitting there, I'm sweating.

526
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:54.000
And I'm thinking, I'm either this is either going to be amazing,
or I'm going to disappear up my own backside, one of the two,

527
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:58.000
and they'll have spent all this
money, and what a waste.

528
00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:07.000
So anyway, I got ready, the door opened, they walked
me through, and there was these two big portraits.

529
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:15.000
portraits hanging off a mesh grill where there were
all these other paintings stocked behind.

530
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:21.000
My first thing was I gasped
literally, and I cried

531
00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:28.000
because I had waited a lifetime
to be captured like that.

532
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:33.000
I waited 50 years to be captured like that.

533
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:36.000
That's a long time to wait.

534
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:43.000
particularly when you see other colleagues,
Australian colleagues,

535
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:48.000
grace walls, grace magazine covers,
grace all of this,

536
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:52.000
and predominantly Anglo-Saxon women.

537
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:54.000
And I turned around and I said,

538
00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:00.000
where are we European women who have made
a contribution to this landscape?

539
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:02.000
Where are we?

540
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:04.000
Why aren't we there?

541
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:05.000
And then I thought,

542
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:09.000
And then I thought, oh well, it doesn't matter.

543
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:12.000
I'll bypass the cover of Vogue or whatever.

544
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:13.000
Doesn't matter.

545
00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:14.000
I still love them.

546
00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:15.000
Guess what?

547
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:18.000
My fat head's on the wall of the
National Portrait Gallery,

548
00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:22.000
ladies and gentlemen.

549
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:28.000
So, try and beat that.

550
00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:33.000
And when you walk in,

551
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:34.000
my fat head is the first head.

552
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.000
is the first head you see.

553
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:41.000
So I guess everything else sort of faded
into significance, you know?

554
00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:43.000
It's just like, yeah, whatever.

555
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:46.000
So it doesn't matter about gracing that.

556
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:50.000
But my point was it wasn't so much about me.

557
00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:53.000
But it's about our community.

558
00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:58.000
Our community that deserve to be on the
front cover of those magazines,

559
00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:01.000
even if we're not blonde and blue-eyed,

560
00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:03.000
and we don't fit the traditional aesthetic.

561
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:10.000
aesthetic. This country is made up of so
many beautiful and varying aesthetics,

562
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:17.000
and that's what I feel is worth celebrating
every colour, every creed.

563
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:21.000
That's the beauty of any nation.

564
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:27.000
And I hope that this portrait is
the beginning of a movement

565
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:33.000
where we as Australians will start
to truly acknowledge what the

566
00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:39.000
Europeans have contributed to
our cultural landscape

567
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:41.000
on so many levels.

568
00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:44.000
So if it does that, Bree, I'm happy.

569
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:46.000
I'm sure Georges will agree with me.

570
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:51.000
I mean, although every beauty or everyone
wants to be photographed

571
00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:54.000
by him now, understandably so,

572
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:57.000
but I'm proud that we're representing

573
00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:01.000
our European roots on the wall,

574
00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:03.000
because that's where we deserve to.

575
00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:10.000
to be. That's just what I feel. And I say that
with the greatest of humility, I really do.

576
00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:14.000
We deserve it. So there we are.

577
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:26.000
I'll tell you where I was at the time
that Tina was looking at the young.

578
00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:32.000
I was about waist deep in freezing cold water
in a pool taking photos of handbags.

579
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:39.000
and I got a phone call from the guy saying,

580
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:42.000
Georges, Tina's about to look at the photo.

581
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:43.000
Can you have a look?

582
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:48.000
I'm like, yeah, I'd love to speak to.

583
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:51.000
And...

584
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:53.000
And...

585
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:58.000
Handbags are very important things
to take photographs.

586
00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:00.000
Oh, tell me about it.

587
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:01.000
And so I...

588
00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:04.000
I got out of the pool and I said to everyone,

589
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:06.000
look, I'm so sorry I've got to go to the toilet.

590
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:09.000
And 45 minutes later, I come back.

591
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:12.000
And they're like, ooh.

592
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:13.000
I'm like, sorry, guys.

593
00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:15.000
That cold water.

594
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:19.000
And, you know, I'm so glad.

595
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:22.000
It's such obviously an incredible
privilege that you had that

596
00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:25.000
that reaction, but geez, I was nervous.

597
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:27.000
I sobbed so hard.

598
00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:31.000
I was just, it was, you know, and
gone to the trouble of having

599
00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:35.000
making makeup done and stuff. I
was like, why'd you bother?

600
00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:38.000
Seriously, it's just, it wasn't worth it.

601
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:41.000
By the way, what handbags were you photographing?

602
00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:44.000
Mimco, I'll get you with her.

603
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:48.000
Oh, okay, okay. All right. Good
Australian mark. Good.

604
00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:50.000
All right.

605
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:53.000
Thank you so much, both for
this incredible portrait,

606
00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:57.000
but also for your generosity that you've
shown along this entire journey.

607
00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.000
And thank you for being here with us today.

608
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:01.000
Could we all please please

609
00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:03.000
put our hands together for Georges and Tina.

610
00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:06.000
Thank you so much.

611
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:08.000
Thank you to Georges.

612
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:12.000
Thank you to Bree and thank you to all
of you for coming along today.

613
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:14.000
It's really appreciated.

614
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:17.000
Enjoy all of those beautiful
portraits in the gallery.

615
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:19.000
We invite you to have a look.

616
00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:20.000
Go for it.

617
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:23.000
Not only mine, there's plenty more
that are fascinating in there.

618
00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:26.000
Thank you for coming, ladies and gentlemen.

619
00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:27.000
Thank you.

620
00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:35.000
Thank you, everybody, for joining us today.

621
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:39.000
For those who are watching online, the big
reveal should have just happened.

622
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:44.000
You should be able to see the incredible
portrait on your screens.

623
00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:47.000
But I encourage you to come and
visit and see it in person

624
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:49.000
because it is best appreciated.

625
00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:53.000
Its scale and its presence when you're
standing right in front of it.

626
00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:56.000
Also, everybody, for noting just to
the left before the portrait

627
00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:00.000
is a beautiful video that takes you behind
the scenes on the day of the shoot.

628
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:08.000
the day of the shoot, they'll help kind of visualise, like bring to life the
conversation that we've just all had the privilege of listening to.

629
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:11.000
So I encourage you now to go into
the gallery and see the work.

630
00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:15.000
We're going to quickly tidy these chairs
up for you and put them away.

631
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:21.000
And just one final round of applause for our special guest,
Bree Pickering, Georges Antoni and Tina Arena.

632
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:32.000
Thank you.