WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.320 Hi everyone, welcome to another virtual highlights tour at the National Portrait Gallery. I am 2 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:16.280 so excited about today's conversation. I am going to introduce you to two of the loveliest 3 00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:22.040 humans you could hope to meet and two fabulous artists. But before we get underway, I'd like 4 00:00:22.040 --> 00:00:25.920 to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land that I'm broadcasting from today. 5 00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:31.240 We are on the unceded lands of the Ngambri and the Ngunnawal peoples here in Canberra, Australia. 6 00:00:31.240 --> 00:00:36.560 And I'd like to acknowledge any First Nations people who are joining us for the program today 7 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:42.720 and acknowledge that this always was and always will be Aboriginal land. So let me without any 8 00:00:42.720 --> 00:00:48.240 more delays introduce you to Will and Garrett Huxley. Thank you so much for joining us today, 9 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:53.720 guys. Thank you. Thank you for having us. You look absolutely gorgeous as always. Thank you. Just a 10 00:00:53.720 --> 00:01:00.320 little bit of midday sparkle. Everybody lives a bit better than their lives. Guys, would you like 11 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:04.680 to maybe introduce yourselves to the people today and tell us a little bit about yourself? Yeah, 12 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:09.080 we'll just start by acknowledging the traditional owners of the Wurundjeri land of the Kulin 13 00:01:09.080 --> 00:01:14.440 Nation where we are today and pay respects to the eldest past, present and emerging. And we 14 00:01:14.440 --> 00:01:19.840 acknowledge this always was and always will be Aboriginal land. So we are Huxleys. Thank you. 15 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:27.520 I'm Garrett. I'm Will. And we kind of like we sort of refer to ourselves as gay terrorists or like 16 00:01:27.520 --> 00:01:35.760 but we're kind of multidisciplinary artists who kind of like to saturate all the mediums with a 17 00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:42.760 surreal kind of queer joy that we hope brings some sort of magic or escapism because life can be 18 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:48.640 quite dark and quite challenging. And this fantasy world that we created was a way for us to feel 19 00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:55.760 comfortable as being very different from where we came from, but also bringing that joy and that 20 00:01:55.760 --> 00:02:05.840 that weirdness to people to hope to give them like the fantasy. Yeah. We use costume and photography 21 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:12.520 and video work and we make everything ourselves together. And yeah, we just have been on this 22 00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:18.600 crazy journey and we never thought that we would end up being where we are and what we're doing. 23 00:02:18.600 --> 00:02:25.600 But we're really hard to get here. I'm not sure if everybody's familiar with your work, but they 24 00:02:25.600 --> 00:02:31.080 may also not be familiar with your faces because quite often when you're performing, we don't 25 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:34.440 actually get to see your beautiful faces. We get to see your beautiful costumes and your beautiful 26 00:02:34.440 --> 00:02:40.760 masks and your amazing makeup. So maybe you can tell us a little bit about how you first met and 27 00:02:40.760 --> 00:02:49.440 how this kind of journey of discovering this amazing art form came to be. Well, we've been 28 00:02:49.440 --> 00:02:59.360 together now like almost 18 years. Congratulations. And we were both working as independent artists. 29 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:05.960 We both studied photography and I studied filmmaking and photography and we both sort of 30 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:12.680 working away at independent practices and we met and fell in love. Garrett worked in a video store 31 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:23.800 and I would try and look at like art house films and try and make an impression. But Garrett was 32 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:30.360 actually my first relationship with a man. So it was really special. It was just like a really 33 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:36.600 healing and kind of special thing for me to meet someone that I admired and loved art. And our 34 00:03:36.600 --> 00:03:42.920 first kind of meetings we talked about Leigh Bowery and Kate Bush and Grace Jones and John Waters 35 00:03:42.920 --> 00:03:49.160 and all these like things that I've been searching for someone that loved the same things. And I 36 00:03:49.160 --> 00:03:55.640 think it was just a really special. Yeah. And I studied up in Queensland at the Queensland College 37 00:03:55.640 --> 00:04:02.440 of Art. I was doing photography and then I came down to Melbourne and met Will and we were together 38 00:04:02.440 --> 00:04:08.600 probably like eight years before we collaborated together. Someone asked us to do a project at 39 00:04:08.600 --> 00:04:13.880 the Bakehouse Studios to make a mural. And so we made that and something happened when we worked 40 00:04:13.880 --> 00:04:19.320 together. It just kind of like was bigger and more colourful. And so the whole thing of us 41 00:04:19.320 --> 00:04:24.760 starting and being called the Huxleys is quite accidental. It just kind of happened. I know 42 00:04:24.760 --> 00:04:29.800 that sounds weird but people just you know saying oh we've seen that mural there. Can you bring that 43 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:33.960 to life? Can you do a stage show of this? And we're like okay sure. And then people were like 44 00:04:33.960 --> 00:04:41.240 oh the Huxleys are here and we were like who are they? So the whole thing is just us kind of creating 45 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:47.880 and making more work and going along for this like ride really. Yeah. Garrett took on my surname. 46 00:04:47.880 --> 00:04:52.280 We're not married because we don't necessarily believe in the concept of marriage but we 47 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:58.840 have a light. I guess you know it was a sign when the plebiscite was happening. We were so kind of 48 00:04:58.840 --> 00:05:05.080 upset by that and we showed solidarity for our love. Garrett just took on my surname and 49 00:05:05.080 --> 00:05:11.080 then people started calling us the Huxleys and we just went with it. But a journey that we've been on 50 00:05:11.080 --> 00:05:17.640 has been a lot about saying yes. And just like challenging ourselves and laughing and just having 51 00:05:17.640 --> 00:05:21.880 a sense of humour saying we may not be the best at that but let's try and do that. And there are 52 00:05:21.880 --> 00:05:27.400 things that like performance wise we're not trained. I always wanted to be a performer when I was a 53 00:05:27.400 --> 00:05:34.840 little kid and I went to I did do some performing. I went to WAPA in WA briefly. But the performing 54 00:05:34.840 --> 00:05:39.560 and the costume making and stuff is just all stuff that we have just taught ourselves or challenged 55 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:45.400 ourselves to do. And when we started working together I think it brought a lot of um there was 56 00:05:45.400 --> 00:05:51.400 like no one to say no. It was like I always had this thing that you just in the in life if someone 57 00:05:51.400 --> 00:05:56.120 believes in you. It doesn't matter who that person is. They give you the permission to say yes 58 00:05:56.120 --> 00:06:05.720 you can do this. You know to have that trust and that sometimes it comes from like a university or 59 00:06:05.720 --> 00:06:10.120 it can come from a friend or a lover. And where they just say I believe in you and you can do this 60 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:16.200 and you can do anything that you really want to do. And not being afraid of failure is a really 61 00:06:16.200 --> 00:06:20.840 like because there are a lot of failures we've had. And I think that's really valuable. And when we 62 00:06:20.840 --> 00:06:27.960 do fail we laugh. And I think humour is so vital. Growing up being I grew up in WA and 63 00:06:27.960 --> 00:06:34.200 it was a very homophobic kind of environment. I had a really tough time at school. And it was 64 00:06:34.200 --> 00:06:40.040 like only through humour and trying to make people laugh that was kind of a way to survive. 65 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:46.920 And I think we put a lot of humour and joy into our work. And I think the like you mentioned the 66 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:55.000 masks and hiding our faces. A lot of that was to do with having confidence to do what we do, 67 00:06:55.000 --> 00:07:01.800 to get out on stage and perform. Being Will and Garrett as we are now is quite confronting. That's 68 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:08.360 why we're wearing a little bit of sequin. But we don't often do that because there's a freedom that 69 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:14.680 comes with being anonymous and wearing masks. You can be we always say it takes away gender and it 70 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:21.240 takes away class. It takes away race. You can be an object and an artwork. And it's very freeing. 71 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:27.080 And it gives us confidence. And that's the same with the makeup as well. It's almost like an 72 00:07:27.080 --> 00:07:34.040 armour or a shield. And you feel more like a more realised version of yourself. 73 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:38.840 Yeah, I find it more interesting when you don't have a face or you know, so when you're just walking 74 00:07:38.840 --> 00:07:44.360 around or people interact with you, you just see their minds. You know, most people want to know 75 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:48.920 what you are or what gender you are, which is interesting. But some people just go with it 76 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:53.320 and they're quite happy that you're this object moving about. They're often trying it when we're 77 00:07:53.320 --> 00:07:58.440 performing in public spaces. It's often I sort of straight men that are really confronted and 78 00:07:58.440 --> 00:08:04.920 "oh, you a chick or a dude?" And it just creates the purpose. Like the idea of our work is freedom. 79 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:10.360 When you take away those binaries. It's this beautiful place you can play in where you don't 80 00:08:10.360 --> 00:08:15.960 have to be put in a box. And growing up I was always more feminine and always attracted to 81 00:08:15.960 --> 00:08:22.040 my friends were all women. And femininity has always been a sense of power and strength for me. 82 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:28.680 And always in my life, people have tried to say, take that away and say "oh, call me a girl" or say 83 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:34.920 like as if it's a negative thing. And I think for me, it's always been a joyful, powerful thing. 84 00:08:34.920 --> 00:08:41.240 And women have always inspired us. So we do play with gender in that way. But we kind of like to 85 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:49.000 take it away completely. So there is this sense of you can be anything. 86 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:53.080 Yeah, that's an interesting point actually though, Garrett, that you made about removing the face. 87 00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:58.840 And obviously we're at the National Portrait Gallery here. So there may be some people of 88 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:05.880 the audience going "oh, we don't have any faces in these images" but these personas and these 89 00:09:05.880 --> 00:09:11.320 costumes and everything that you're creating is so personal, so deeply personal to both of you. 90 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:16.280 Could we argue maybe that a lot of this work is the self-portrait of the two of you together? 91 00:09:16.280 --> 00:09:24.200 I think it is. And there's this mirrored thing that we use in our work. I've kind of felt like I 92 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:30.680 found a soulmate and Garrett, like a mirror to have this beautiful mirror to have that makes 93 00:09:30.680 --> 00:09:37.640 you feel okay and makes you feel special. And the work is always personal for us because it's 94 00:09:37.640 --> 00:09:44.520 this exploration of when you haven't been able to express yourself growing up, it's so you feel so 95 00:09:44.520 --> 00:09:50.840 constricted. And the work that we do is like this, it's almost like an exorcism of all the times 96 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:55.160 where I wasn't allowed to be queer. Yeah, it builds up like a volcano, you're like "watch out". 97 00:09:55.160 --> 00:10:01.960 When I was a kid, I was even when you wore a pink t-shirt or shorts above the knee. 98 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:10.360 And I just, I was so, you kind of hide yourself. And as particularly as boys, I wasn't into sport 99 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:16.600 or anything like that. And it's so hard to hide those things and it takes a real toll. And so this 100 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:22.040 work, there's that great thing that Freud said, which was the idea of the return of the repressed. 101 00:10:22.040 --> 00:10:28.520 And it comes back in a monstrous form. And I feel like that's kind of what our artwork is. It's this 102 00:10:28.520 --> 00:10:35.800 monstrous explosion of being different and how that feels in a culture that doesn't necessarily 103 00:10:35.800 --> 00:10:42.280 always support difference. We're in a culture that is very much about, has often been about sport 104 00:10:42.280 --> 00:10:50.600 and athleticism and art has never been celebrated enough as it should be in Australia. And also, 105 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:57.000 you know, Garrett was in the Gold Coast, or Queensland, and I was in WA. And the 80s and 90s 106 00:10:57.000 --> 00:11:03.640 were very, the culture was quite backwards then, if you were different. Things have changed a lot 107 00:11:03.640 --> 00:11:09.080 now, which is good. But I think our work is about celebrating that love that was kind of, 108 00:11:09.880 --> 00:11:15.880 we didn't see around us when we were growing up. You had to look to magazines and other artists. 109 00:11:15.880 --> 00:11:21.480 And we've always said that art saved us. So when you didn't have friends or you didn't feel you 110 00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:30.600 fit in, you could find it in a song or a magazine or a countdown. Seeing like David Bowie as a kid or 111 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:36.840 Prince or, you know, the pictures of Cindy Sherman, where she was just creating all these 112 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:43.560 amazing characters. I once saw a picture of Cindy Sherman's weekroom and I was like, that is so 113 00:11:43.560 --> 00:11:50.440 cool. And just the idea that you don't have to accept what, you know, the limitations of who 114 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:55.640 you are or what you're given, you can actually dream outside of that if you don't feel, yeah, 115 00:11:55.640 --> 00:12:01.960 and people like Bowie or Boy George, even someone like Grace Jones playing with that, 116 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:09.640 those incredible characters and power was really formative and character-scovered Lee Bowie. 117 00:12:09.640 --> 00:12:13.720 And that was the reason, one of the reasons you went to London when you were a... 118 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:20.840 Yeah, I left the Gold Coast, went straight to London about 1990 and had a great time there for 119 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:25.160 a couple of years. Saw a lot of my heroes I was seeing in like the Face and ID magazine. 120 00:12:25.800 --> 00:12:33.320 And Saw Lee Bowie and Martha Clark performed and went to those clubs. But I think what's 121 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:38.280 interesting now about Australia is we, because we travel a lot around Australia and we go to places 122 00:12:38.280 --> 00:12:45.480 like Canberra and Brisbane and Perth and there's young kids there that we perform with all coming 123 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:50.040 to contact with and they don't feel like they have to move anymore. So that's a really lovely... 124 00:12:50.040 --> 00:12:53.640 Yeah, that's incredible, isn't it? Yeah, it feels really beautiful that they don't feel like they 125 00:12:53.640 --> 00:12:59.400 have to leave in order to get what they want or to feel validated, I guess. 126 00:12:59.400 --> 00:13:05.640 It just spent a month in Brisbane and it was just a really warm response to what we were doing. 127 00:13:05.640 --> 00:13:10.520 I lived in Brisbane briefly because I studied up there and it was not warm. 128 00:13:10.520 --> 00:13:18.120 I guess it was hot, but it was definitely not a good place to be if you're not different. But 129 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:23.640 it's been really beautiful going back and seeing how open and how times change so quickly. 130 00:13:23.640 --> 00:13:33.320 One thing in our art that we love to do is we're both heavily inspired by surrealism and 131 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:39.960 Dada and that kind of idea that there is no right or wrong or... Like a lot of those incredible 132 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:43.880 surrealists like people like Max D'Anne, Saw Lee and I were carrying them, they were creating 133 00:13:43.880 --> 00:13:50.040 artworks that were just dreamscapes or you didn't have to say is what is that thing, 134 00:13:50.040 --> 00:13:58.120 what is that object. It's such a sense of joy when you don't have to name something. 135 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:06.600 And there was the idea that there is no end or beginning or no right or wrong to something you 136 00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:12.520 could be. Some of my favourite moments when we're performing or we've been at the art gallery 137 00:14:12.520 --> 00:14:17.720 is actually walking home or walking to the car in these costumes because it becomes more surreal, 138 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:22.360 you're on the street and you're part of everyday life and that's when really strange things happen 139 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:27.480 and that's kind of my favourite bit. People are always saying what are you? 140 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:40.520 Just let go. It's about it saying confused. It's actually really nice to not have to 141 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:47.720 know what something is or sometimes watching a film like a David Lynch film or something where 142 00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:54.040 you don't necessarily know what's happening. It's so your mind kind of opens and you go to places 143 00:14:54.040 --> 00:15:00.680 that you wouldn't normally go because you use your imagination. We touched a little bit on 144 00:15:00.680 --> 00:15:06.600 that revisiting of places that perhaps weren't so friendly for you when you were growing up. 145 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:11.880 There's a really lovely sequence of images that you've done of sort of taking back or 146 00:15:11.880 --> 00:15:17.480 reclaiming some of those amazing old postcards and we've acquired a couple of them into our 147 00:15:17.480 --> 00:15:21.960 collection. I'm wondering if you might be able to tell us a little bit about how this works in your 148 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:31.800 work? Yeah, so as we talked about the places that we came from, this project was this kind of beautiful 149 00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:39.800 way of finding peace with struggling fitting in so being like a total fish out of water I guess 150 00:15:39.800 --> 00:15:47.880 in a sense and you know over emphasizing the difference of how you might feel in those environments. 151 00:15:47.880 --> 00:15:53.560 Kind of like the idea growing up I loved to film Edward Scissorhands and I always loved how 152 00:15:53.560 --> 00:15:58.520 the Edward Scissorhands character was at complete odds with that pastoral suburbia 153 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:06.200 and growing up in the suburbs of Perth and the Gold Coast you felt like even if it wasn't just 154 00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:11.800 visual insight you felt like you're a total alien and so this series we went actually went back to 155 00:16:11.800 --> 00:16:17.640 the Gold Coast and Perth and searched for vintage postcards which was actually a really fun process 156 00:16:17.640 --> 00:16:24.520 and then found a way we photographed ourselves make costumes and wigs and make up and photographed 157 00:16:24.520 --> 00:16:33.240 ourselves and then put ourselves into these places as a real like signifier of how you felt really. 158 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:40.040 Yeah it's interesting thinking back to those times because they were quite the hard times 159 00:16:40.040 --> 00:16:46.040 growing up as a kid back then you were just bullied constantly but there's an interesting 160 00:16:46.040 --> 00:16:51.800 part of you that can't stop expressing yourself when you're that age as well so it's like you're 161 00:16:51.800 --> 00:16:56.840 drawing more attention to yourself and you're saying I don't belong here you know like I'm not 162 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:02.200 part of this you know and so you're creating this kind of attention almost to yourself which is 163 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:06.760 really interesting like we used to have Goths in school and I don't think anyone in Australia does 164 00:17:06.760 --> 00:17:13.400 Goths like quite like Brook Queensland for some reason because it's so hot. We used to have 165 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:17.880 everything called beach games and all the Goths would just pick beach games and just walk along 166 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:22.840 the beach with umbrellas. I love that so much. Yeah it's very theatrical and it's like this big 167 00:17:22.840 --> 00:17:29.560 sign saying like I'm not you know screw you I'm not part of it so yeah I had this experience at 168 00:17:29.560 --> 00:17:35.560 school where I I tried to fit in for a while like I thought I have to buy all the selfie clothes and 169 00:17:35.560 --> 00:17:41.640 I have to look like so I had these like but my my mum was like oh yeah go buy some selfie clothes 170 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:47.480 and I chose this like purple billaubon tracksuit with applique dolphins and it's still wrong 171 00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:52.600 but I tried to fit in and it actually didn't help me at all so in the end I was like like 172 00:17:52.600 --> 00:17:57.240 fuck you I'm not fitting in I'm gonna go the complete opposite and I wore my clothes I wore 173 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:03.160 like 70s clothes and I wore my mum's old flares and I just like I thought if I'm not gonna fit in 174 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:09.000 I'm gonna be as spectacularly different as possible and I've got teased every day school 175 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:15.240 when I've ever enjoyed school like I mean I I just I like sort of retreated into myself and 176 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:22.280 my loved art and music and stuff but I you just you can't hide it it's not a good idea to hide 177 00:18:22.280 --> 00:18:27.320 who you are because if you do it's still not gonna you're still not gonna make it you're not gonna 178 00:18:27.320 --> 00:18:35.000 be happy and and um these images are like going back to Perth and Queensland and and finding 179 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:40.280 humour and joy and being different and and the ones that you acquired by the National Portrait 180 00:18:40.280 --> 00:18:46.360 Gallery the small town boy they're cool and they join at the heart because from either side of this 181 00:18:46.360 --> 00:18:53.400 country we found each other you know and growing up I would have been so um they would have been so 182 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:59.320 special to meet someone like Garrett because I felt so lonely and and this image it shows the 183 00:18:59.320 --> 00:19:05.640 joining of how that feels to find a kindred spirit and even though we were miles away from each other 184 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:11.720 in these postcards we're connected because we are different and and the image and we're holding 185 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:19.880 the Bronsky Peak small town boy vinyl that song is all about about a boy in a small town that has 186 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:25.320 to leave because his family rejects them in his community and it's a really powerful like it's 187 00:19:25.320 --> 00:19:30.680 one of the most powerful queer songs I can think of and we both love that and the video is an 188 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:36.280 incredible video if you haven't seen it it's um it's Jimmy Somerville leaving and singing this 189 00:19:36.280 --> 00:19:42.440 song it's really sad I love disco songs actually quite sad it's there's this beautiful contrast 190 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:50.040 between the disco beat and the sadness behind it and but we're both carrying that album that means 191 00:19:50.040 --> 00:19:55.240 a lot to us that's a nice segue actually into the influence of music on your life and your 192 00:19:55.240 --> 00:20:00.680 work that comes through so strongly even just in a few of the names that you mentioned Kate Bush, 193 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:06.760 David Bowie but there's Prince but there's a whole bunch a whole genre of artists that you 194 00:20:06.760 --> 00:20:10.760 really resonate with and a lot of your performances music is really integral to that can you have 195 00:20:10.760 --> 00:20:16.840 a little chat about the influence of music on your work? I think when we were kids the thing 196 00:20:16.840 --> 00:20:26.840 that we were had access to was something like countdown or rage and I used to stay up at night 197 00:20:26.840 --> 00:20:32.760 and watch rage and that was the first time I saw David Bowie and Molly Meldrum was so influential 198 00:20:32.760 --> 00:20:40.200 in introducing camp to Australia yes he's got a lot to ask for we need to thank him for a lot 199 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:45.320 as well yeah but that's where Garrett saw Boy George but actually went to see Boy George yeah 200 00:20:45.320 --> 00:20:50.120 saw Boy George when he came out so I think those people they kind of shone you know they were shining 201 00:20:50.120 --> 00:20:55.080 in this land and even though you're like nine or ten you just know you know you know what you like 202 00:20:55.080 --> 00:21:02.760 and what you feel like as well so I think that's why they became so important to us these heroes 203 00:21:02.760 --> 00:21:09.320 like Nina Hargan, Boy George, Pete Burns, you know David Bowie and Grace Jones they just you know 204 00:21:09.320 --> 00:21:15.160 they really stood out to us and they became important figures so like seeing David Bowie maybe 205 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:21.720 feel not so alone because I've had there's something to dream of like somewhere out of where I was 206 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:27.160 and that those heroes are so important and seeing that like someone like Lee Bowie who was actually 207 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:34.600 from Victoria and we you know grew up in Australia and then left and created this incredible world 208 00:21:34.600 --> 00:21:41.160 where those people are like these we call them like shining beacons like luminaries that we are like 209 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:46.840 there is an alternative to to what we see around us yeah because we're you know there's nothing 210 00:21:46.840 --> 00:21:50.840 around you especially when we were younger and you know people that were younger before that that 211 00:21:50.840 --> 00:21:57.800 really you know you can't really see anything like you or anything around you so these are the you 212 00:21:57.800 --> 00:22:03.240 know you catch it in movies and the little glimpses but you when you were young you had your work 213 00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:09.880 really cut out for you to kind of find those people I remember seeing Iggy Pop on TV when I was 214 00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:15.560 sitting and he was like shirtless and leather pants screaming and blood on him like it was just 215 00:22:15.560 --> 00:22:21.880 such anarchy and chaos and joy and I was like that person it's just like I want to be like that 216 00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:30.040 and and I remember one of I saw the documentary in Bed with Madonna when I was like I must have been 217 00:22:30.040 --> 00:22:37.880 remember that I was obsessed with that too for me it was one of the first times that I saw queer 218 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:45.160 people interacting and and laughing and being joyful and being sexy in her in the behind the 219 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:51.320 scenes I was I was obsessed with those dancers and and also just her being this spectacle of 220 00:22:51.320 --> 00:22:57.560 of sex and excitement and at that time a lot of her work was kind of quite queer and I just 221 00:22:57.560 --> 00:23:03.160 stuff like that makes a huge impact on you know it makes you feel like um you're yeah that there 222 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:09.880 are communities out there for you and it took us a while to find those but they're so important 223 00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:17.080 and and art all that artwork you know the pictures of Robert Maplefield I saw in the art gallery of 224 00:23:17.080 --> 00:23:23.320 WA that just blew my mind and I was like what is this dark sexy world where is it I mean to find 225 00:23:23.320 --> 00:23:29.560 and it just keeps you dreaming because if you don't have hope you can get really stifled in 226 00:23:29.560 --> 00:23:36.280 small places where you where you're not accepted so all that music can really fit into and when 227 00:23:36.280 --> 00:23:42.360 we make costumes or make photos we're always playing music so each one sound track or like a 228 00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:46.600 costume we're like oh that's rocksy music that costume because that's what we want to listen to 229 00:23:46.600 --> 00:23:50.680 when we made it um we have a emu who only listened to Susie Sue 230 00:23:53.960 --> 00:24:01.080 yeah it's just so important and and yeah she's a goth emu 231 00:24:01.080 --> 00:24:12.280 um that probably leads into the other work that we've acquired here at the portugese which is 232 00:24:12.280 --> 00:24:18.520 uh video clip a style over substance can you describe this work for us yeah so style over 233 00:24:18.520 --> 00:24:25.560 substance was the story of uh it's actually taken but that that idea was taken from a quote by Oscar 234 00:24:25.560 --> 00:24:32.040 Wilde who said in matters of grave importance style not sincerity is the vital thing and I 235 00:24:32.040 --> 00:24:37.480 always thought that was really funny and our work is so over the top and you know I love the idea that 236 00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:42.440 it's like a bit of a joke that it's style over substance because it means so much to us um 237 00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:47.560 but it is very like I think a lot of people it took it took us a long time to be taken seriously and 238 00:24:47.560 --> 00:24:52.680 and not that we want to be taken seriously but our art to be taken seriously because people think 239 00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:57.400 oh you're just having a good time uh but there's so much work and thought that goes into it but it 240 00:24:57.400 --> 00:25:04.440 does look like it's you know like extravagant fun uh but the the song style of a substance is us 241 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:11.480 telling the story of growing up as these queer different kids looking for looking for this 242 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:17.880 magical world and and the song is about finding that and we filmed on a lot of locations for 243 00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:23.320 this video that it coincides with a photographic series called places of worship which was us 244 00:25:23.320 --> 00:25:29.320 in our costumes finding the beauty and joy in the natural world which is often so extravagant 245 00:25:29.320 --> 00:25:35.240 the colors and flowers and animals and creatures so have such a set greater sense of freedom 246 00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:41.240 than we do as boys growing up like and we wanted to to show how precious and inspiring the natural 247 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:46.280 world is because a lot of the colors and costumes that we make are inspired by that and that features 248 00:25:46.280 --> 00:25:51.880 in the video as well you know what was interesting with the video in the photographs when we went 249 00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:59.560 out into nature with these costumes um we actually felt more um a place in nature than we do around 250 00:25:59.560 --> 00:26:06.040 the city so it's something happened it's just like they kind of yeah they just fed into their 251 00:26:06.040 --> 00:26:12.280 landscape quite well and nature is not judgmental and in the natural world uh the brightest 252 00:26:12.280 --> 00:26:19.320 hottest pink flower is it's danger and beauty but as a as a boy you're like oh we can't be too much 253 00:26:19.320 --> 00:26:25.080 but nature is too much and it's it's inspiring and sea creatures that we have made costumes are 254 00:26:25.080 --> 00:26:30.680 agenda fluid and and there's just this sense that the natural world doesn't not you can never make 255 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:35.160 anything that's probably as beautiful and as interesting as the natural world and and we 256 00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:42.120 love animals and we take inspiration from them and yeah so it was the video and the song was really 257 00:26:42.120 --> 00:26:48.040 a really stepping point for us as well because one of our first acts we did was a dark mofo 258 00:26:48.040 --> 00:26:54.360 where we did this glam rock band that had no sound and it was a stage rock show with backup dancers 259 00:26:54.360 --> 00:26:59.800 pyrotechnics videos dancing we had instruments people playing them but they were silent and it 260 00:26:59.800 --> 00:27:06.120 was completely silent it was it was kind of inspired by the john cage four minutes 33 that 261 00:27:06.120 --> 00:27:11.880 performance of silence um but it was like every single other element other than sound was so 262 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:18.440 extreme and and people loved it but they were kind of confused but they went with it um and then 263 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:23.000 years later we this was our first song where we actually singing and making music and we worked 264 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:30.520 with um two melbourne musicians to make it and it was kind of a real challenge and you know we 265 00:27:30.520 --> 00:27:38.760 always wanted to love pop stars and and glam rock and this was our kind of chance to be them i absolutely 266 00:27:38.760 --> 00:27:45.000 love that line that nature is not judgmental i think one of the most um hilarious and brilliant 267 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:50.120 moments i have seen on mainstream live to air television is when i don't even remember where 268 00:27:50.120 --> 00:27:55.160 it was but somebody maybe they were doing the weather and they crossed to um an exhibition 269 00:27:55.160 --> 00:28:01.160 where you had the sea urchin costumes on and they're asking who you were it was the most beautiful 270 00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:06.520 piece of theater that i possibly could have imagined it was so great so strange because 271 00:28:06.520 --> 00:28:11.640 that it was like channel seven or something they'd done yeah they they didn't care who we were they 272 00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:16.840 were just there it was at five a.m. and they were like we were dressed in our sea urchin costumes 273 00:28:16.840 --> 00:28:21.560 and i was so tired and i was like oh are they's going to interview me and they said lots of energy 274 00:28:21.560 --> 00:28:27.080 come on give it the best and i was just being honest and they said what are what are you and i said 275 00:28:27.080 --> 00:28:32.760 oh with sea urchins but also you know we look it's like we call ourselves the fluffy anus um because 276 00:28:32.760 --> 00:28:37.560 of sea urchins anus is actually where its mouth should be because the way they eat off the sea 277 00:28:37.560 --> 00:28:42.680 floor it has like that yeah and i was explaining this and they just explained it just like that 278 00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:49.000 there was this huge outcry and there was like it was in the paper and i was saying that it was 279 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:55.000 disgusting on sunrise tv using the word anus which is actually a scientific term like David 280 00:28:55.000 --> 00:29:02.760 Expred has used the word anus um and then um the rising had to apologize to like 281 00:29:02.760 --> 00:29:09.400 it was just like so ridiculous but it was it was the natural world inspired us we were sea urchins 282 00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:15.960 and and but they but the presenters of sunrise were outraged by the term oh it was glorious it was 283 00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:22.040 absolutely glorious sometimes it's good to shock those people and i didn't think it was shocking 284 00:29:22.040 --> 00:29:25.480 because a lot of times we think it's quite normal the way we present ourselves and 285 00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:30.760 one of the one of our favorite performances is this we have we created a giant four meter 286 00:29:30.760 --> 00:29:38.520 vulva um we're born wrong and it it happened when donald trump was being elected and we were so 287 00:29:38.520 --> 00:29:43.160 angry about his statements towards women and just the general misogyny that the world so we're like 288 00:29:43.160 --> 00:29:49.000 let's create this this amazing celebration of where we had come from which is we've all been born 289 00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:53.960 from a vagina we're all like born from this beautiful feminine power and we're like let's 290 00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:59.000 create this big sculpture that we worship and we're born through it and we perform to born to be alive 291 00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:04.680 and it's like a worshiping like it's our it's our deity um and any time we take it somewhere to 292 00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:09.880 perform people are really outraged and angry we performed at the sydney contemporary and a few 293 00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:17.480 years ago and that this sort of the vitriol about i just i always say where how do you think you've 294 00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:23.960 got here like this is just something that is beautiful that needs to be celebrated in a joyful 295 00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:34.600 way and now we go back in at the end yeah performance used to be we go back inside 296 00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:39.320 the vagina we're like this i can tell you i have days like that a lot 297 00:30:39.320 --> 00:30:45.960 um can we talk a little bit about your most recent project i believe it's your most recent 298 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:53.960 project it's the bloodlines series yeah so this was um probably my favorite series we've made 299 00:30:53.960 --> 00:31:00.840 because it means them so much to us it um bloodlines is a tribute to all of the heroes and 300 00:31:00.840 --> 00:31:09.000 artists that we lost to h.i.b and aids a whole generation of incredible artists was we lost and 301 00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:16.600 as growing up in that time being queer it was so scary but also so but such a huge 302 00:31:16.600 --> 00:31:23.320 loss of all those voices and for years we've always garrick and i talked about that that that sense of 303 00:31:23.320 --> 00:31:29.560 that we owed so much to those people and and we wouldn't be here doing what we were doing without 304 00:31:29.560 --> 00:31:36.040 those voices um we were had talked about a long time finding a way to do it we wanted to do it for 305 00:31:36.040 --> 00:31:41.240 a long time but we just didn't know how to do it right and then just finally clicked in our heads 306 00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:47.080 how to do it um you know with paying respect to these artists but also being showing how they 307 00:31:47.080 --> 00:31:53.480 influenced us so we just didn't want to copy them or we wanted to you know have our own voice in there 308 00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:58.440 and we found them the concept was kind of based around the idea of saints like holy cards like 309 00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:04.600 these artists so you know people like Robert Mapplethorpe, Peter Tully, David McDermott, Cookie 310 00:32:04.600 --> 00:32:14.440 Mueller that there's so many Sylvester, Freddie Mercury, it was just this enormous sense of 311 00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:22.200 debt to these people that should still be here and their influence is everywhere and with queer 312 00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:27.400 young queer people and a lot of them we were talking to a lot of community didn't they were 313 00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:35.720 like who's Sylvester, who is Hibiscus and Sylvester obviously Mighty Reel is like was a gender 314 00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:41.160 non-conforming incredible disco star and was so brave all these artists were so brave because at 315 00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:50.360 the time that they were working it was still really difficult to be queer and it only been in the 316 00:32:50.360 --> 00:32:54.920 70s where the gay rights movement happened and there was this beautiful brief period 317 00:32:55.640 --> 00:33:01.240 after gay liberation and before AIDS where all these artists were really free and fighting and 318 00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:06.120 being loud and having their voices heard for the first time and that's why so much incredible 319 00:33:06.120 --> 00:33:12.200 art came out and Keith Haring and all these people that were just like having their voices heard 320 00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:18.440 and we did a talk with William Yang and when we showed this work at Sydney World Pride and he said 321 00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:24.520 that what we want as gay people is our stories to be told because for thousands of years those 322 00:33:24.520 --> 00:33:30.840 voices weren't heard and so when gay liberation happened and these artists were working their 323 00:33:30.840 --> 00:33:37.960 voices were so loud and so potent and they had such a lifelong effect on us that everything I do 324 00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:45.160 as an artist I feel is in debt to those people that we we're like they held that they handed us 325 00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:49.640 a torch almost in a way and we feel like we have to keep shining and I didn't show young people 326 00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:56.440 look at this history that we're like we're all connected as queer people to our history and these 327 00:33:56.440 --> 00:34:03.960 icons so we made these giant costumes and artworks each emulating an element of those artists and 328 00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:08.600 their story we did a lot of research but we didn't want to just copy it we there had to be 329 00:34:08.600 --> 00:34:12.760 the Huxley's version of Sylvesterville. I don't know how they had opened the door for us and 330 00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:19.320 influenced us and we had we made 13 large works of artists that were especially special to us 331 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:25.480 and then we because it just kept going we made a massive quilt with I think 45 artists on there 332 00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:31.400 that were chung on the wall and then we got community to come in and share their stories 333 00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:39.640 with artists that they knew and just loved once and now we have more quilt panels from those 334 00:34:39.640 --> 00:34:44.040 you know talking with people in the community and we're learning about new artists we've never 335 00:34:44.040 --> 00:34:49.800 heard of and we're teaching so it creates this really beautiful dialogue we we um yeah brought 336 00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:54.840 people sent us images and we had them printed on fabric and we had these workshops where we 337 00:34:54.840 --> 00:35:01.640 talked and told stories about these artists and these people and we bejeweled the the quilt panels 338 00:35:01.640 --> 00:35:06.200 because they're based on the historical AIDS quilts that people made in the late 80s and early 339 00:35:06.200 --> 00:35:12.520 90s which we were invited by Thorn Harbor the AIDS community AIDS council in Victoria to come 340 00:35:12.520 --> 00:35:17.240 and see these and it was one of the most emotional experiences I've ever had seeing these quilts 341 00:35:17.240 --> 00:35:24.600 brought out of all these beautiful people that people should still be here and it was only that 342 00:35:24.600 --> 00:35:30.440 we always say it was just timing you know like that could have been us it was just um and so 343 00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:36.600 this project is about celebrating and honoring those people and doing it in a way that was joyful 344 00:35:36.600 --> 00:35:43.800 and fun and because they were joyful and outrageous fun artists and we didn't want them to be remembered 345 00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:50.040 in a a sorrow sad way I mean there's a lot of emotion behind it but it's about the joy they gave us 346 00:35:50.040 --> 00:35:56.840 so we want our work to be joyful and we made a song called Bloodlines which is an honor to tell their 347 00:35:56.840 --> 00:36:05.080 story of all those beautiful artists and that that beautiful era of disco where um queer people 348 00:36:05.080 --> 00:36:09.880 of color like they were making culture that's where the all the exciting stuff happened was around 349 00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:17.160 queer people of color pretty much created that disco joy and that that song is all a debt to that 350 00:36:17.160 --> 00:36:23.080 and we invited community from queer community in Melbourne to be in the video with us and one of 351 00:36:23.080 --> 00:36:31.880 people with HIV with Jacob who was the curator of the show is um an incredible dancer and curator and 352 00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:39.000 he he approached us from Sydney uh from Carriage Works asking whether we had an idea to show at 353 00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:45.240 Carriage Works and we told him about Bloodlines and he said uh we didn't know this but he said I'm 354 00:36:45.240 --> 00:36:51.800 I've been living with HIV for um I think it was 20 years and he said that this is so special and so 355 00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:57.320 important and he was working with Carriage Works for World Pride and he said there was not a show in 356 00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:03.080 World Pride that was dedicated to those voices so it was this beautiful like it was almost like it 357 00:37:03.080 --> 00:37:10.360 was meant to be and Jacob was so kind and encouraging and enabled us to make this work and we had a 358 00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:17.720 big performance as for Bloodlines where we invited artists to respond to an artist or a song of someone 359 00:37:17.720 --> 00:37:23.960 that we had lost and it was this beautiful like experience where it was like bringing those voices 360 00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:30.120 back for a night and and this project can only keep growing because there are so many voices that 361 00:37:30.120 --> 00:37:34.360 need to be celebrated and we learned about one in particular called Brenton Heathcurt 362 00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:42.840 who actually did an amazing performance and the NGA had a show um called Don't Leave Me This Way 363 00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:49.960 which was uh that was so powerful in like I think 94 or 95 yeah I might be able to find the link from 364 00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:55.960 that and drop it into the chat for people to see. So incredible that and Ted Gott was the curator 365 00:37:55.960 --> 00:38:02.760 and it was about art in the age of AIDS and Brenton Heathcurt was a Sydney based performance 366 00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:09.240 artist that was was dying of AIDS at the time but showed up in this incredible like latex 367 00:38:09.240 --> 00:38:14.680 body mold with an IV drip coming off and just wheeled around and in a performance around the 368 00:38:14.680 --> 00:38:20.360 gallery and we didn't know about Brenton when we started this project and through this some people 369 00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:26.360 told us about their work and now I'm so inspired by what what they did and we're including an 370 00:38:26.360 --> 00:38:32.120 image of them in the latest quilt and it just um all these voices and stories will keep coming in 371 00:38:32.120 --> 00:38:38.200 because it's so inspiring. What we might do at the end of the interview if people can hang around a 372 00:38:38.200 --> 00:38:44.760 little bit after 115 we might play the full bloodlines clip um at the end after we um say goodbye 373 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:49.000 just so people can see it. We did have one question from the audience about the mixture of 374 00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:53.800 self-initiated and commissioned art so they're wondering is there you know is it difficult for 375 00:38:53.800 --> 00:38:59.880 you to be commissioned to produce something when everything is so personal and bespoke I suppose 376 00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:05.960 to your particular style. It's it's really interesting like like we talked about it took 377 00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:12.360 a lot of a long time for us to actually be able to be artists in time or like you know and a lot 378 00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:19.240 of no's and a lot of rejection and it's interesting now we do get people asking us to make things 379 00:39:19.240 --> 00:39:25.320 for you know commissions it um but we've had times in the past where we've made something and 380 00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:32.840 that people have no they like that and I always think it's why did you come? Yeah it's like it's 381 00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:39.320 too gay for them or too camp or too much and why did you ask us? We had a funny experience where we 382 00:39:39.320 --> 00:39:46.440 were commissioned to make a film about the sex life of plants for Heronswood Gallery in 383 00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:53.560 Victoria which is quite a conservative garden nursery place and the man that commissioned 384 00:39:53.560 --> 00:39:57.320 us I don't think he quite I think he got the artist mixed up I think he thought we were someone else 385 00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:03.880 We made this I love it it's a bit like Monty Python or the Mighty Boosh it's but it's us 386 00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:10.680 explaining that we portray spinach and we portray bees about them having sex because animal sex is 387 00:40:10.680 --> 00:40:18.440 much and is much wilder and more interesting than human sex and we made it and it it was so full on 388 00:40:18.440 --> 00:40:23.320 that they they thought it was so full on that it was banned from the gallery and they had Bill 389 00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:30.200 Henson opening the gallery and his work's much more controversial than ours but he was there and he 390 00:40:30.200 --> 00:40:37.320 was like this work can't be shown it's so ridiculous if I have to share it with you because it's really 391 00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:41.640 joyful and silly it's so silly but one of the people that worked there said it's creating a sexually 392 00:40:41.640 --> 00:40:48.680 charged workplace with the question of bees and pollen and it's so silly but sometimes they can 393 00:40:48.680 --> 00:40:56.760 question things backfire but so I yeah I don't think we kind of can compromise that you know 394 00:40:56.760 --> 00:41:02.840 what we do you meet beautiful people along the way like so in Melbourne at the moment there 395 00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:09.560 there's been this metro train tunnel thing they're making and which is not great but but because of 396 00:41:09.560 --> 00:41:15.800 that there's been a lot of buildings and hoardings that needed to be like made beautiful so we were 397 00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:22.440 commissioned by them to make murals and we an incredible one bought us campus Christmas 398 00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:27.960 which was which they gave us a really great budget to create and we celebrated the like 399 00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:33.560 native Australian flora and fauna and made a Christmas work that was really joyful and and 400 00:41:33.560 --> 00:41:39.160 not overly Christmassy in the traditional sense but we got such beautiful response from that and 401 00:41:39.160 --> 00:41:43.880 that was commissioned and it was a way for us to get our work into places that people wouldn't 402 00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:49.720 normally see it and I like public art for that purpose because you're bringing art to people 403 00:41:49.720 --> 00:41:55.000 that wouldn't go to galleries and maybe changing people's minds or opening their minds and that's 404 00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:01.000 why being commissioned to do stuff is great and we're really fortunate that things like that come 405 00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:06.840 along because that also enables you to make your normal work because we're always making stuff 406 00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:13.080 even if people want to see it or not. Now in our exhibition that's open at the moment Artie100 407 00:42:13.080 --> 00:42:18.440 we have a portrait of the two of you so you're used to creating self-portraits in your own style 408 00:42:18.440 --> 00:42:25.720 with no constraints. What was it like to sit for a portrait for another artist? Well Sally 409 00:42:25.720 --> 00:42:33.560 is a friend of ours and had come to see our show 'Discordia' which was the tagline was 'Everything 410 00:42:33.560 --> 00:42:42.120 Happens for No Reason' but it was a stage show and artwork that was celebrating the idea of 'Discordia' 411 00:42:42.120 --> 00:42:48.200 which was which is a religion that was made like made famous by the KLF if anyone remembers the KLF. 412 00:42:48.200 --> 00:42:51.160 I do! Oh my god I remember them! 413 00:42:51.160 --> 00:42:58.520 Racing chaos and that there is no reason for life and the idea that everything does happen for no 414 00:42:58.520 --> 00:43:05.880 reason and it was this magical show that was just bonkers and completely about the surrealism and 415 00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:12.440 how life you just have to like there is no rules and no there's no right or wrong and Sally came 416 00:43:12.440 --> 00:43:18.920 to this show and she she just really responded to it and we've always both we've had a mutual love 417 00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:25.800 of weeks and we had these wigs on in the show and Sally and I always send each other wigs and 418 00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:31.080 Sally loves John Waters films as well and we just had all these connections and she just said I want 419 00:43:31.080 --> 00:43:37.560 to come to your studio and paint paint you paint a portrait of you and um it's kind of like she 420 00:43:37.560 --> 00:43:44.920 wanted to still look dead inside yeah which was such a great game it was a really good um 421 00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:52.280 director direction for us I like that inside and um and she we also talked about the history of um 422 00:43:52.280 --> 00:44:00.200 of classical like portraiture like the last ways um and the idea of the traditional portrait um 423 00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:07.480 which they're often are not very emotive um but strangely it's my favorite like even like even 424 00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:13.080 though she said dead inside I still get this this sense of um there's this purpose to it and a 425 00:44:13.080 --> 00:44:19.960 connection between the two of us and it brings me such joy this portrait it's very strange and and 426 00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:25.080 and I there's something it's my favorite one that's been painted of us so there's been a couple of 427 00:44:25.080 --> 00:44:31.320 people that are taking portraits or painting and this one um she captured something that's quite 428 00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:37.880 magical and when it was in the Archibald at the Art Gallery of South Wales we got interviewed on the 429 00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:43.240 day they said they asked me a really serious question and I said it's great to see more wigs 430 00:44:43.240 --> 00:44:48.760 in the Archibald there's not enough of them and it and that was the sound bite they used on the news 431 00:44:48.760 --> 00:44:55.880 and of course they did. Sally loved like she loves nonsense and she's an incredible she uses the um 432 00:44:55.880 --> 00:45:02.120 it's pointillism I think that she just dots and dots and dots and she just works for so long 433 00:45:02.120 --> 00:45:08.200 getting that beautiful those patterns she's got a great sense of humor what how did you find it 434 00:45:08.200 --> 00:45:13.000 no I loved it the portrait's really growing on me as well because it's interesting to see someone's 435 00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:18.360 version of yourself but um yeah I think it's some beautiful portrait and I love that those wigs 436 00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:25.400 are being um recorded yeah she also as Sally says she loves she uses the word vaginal pink 437 00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:31.800 she loves that she said I love vaginal pink and like we have to have and we've had been wearing 438 00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:38.200 this pink sequin um and she was like obsessed with it and Sally wore it too Sally we we 439 00:45:38.200 --> 00:45:43.240 lent Sally a suit too and then popped her in a wig she wore a wig for the opening of the Archibald 440 00:45:43.240 --> 00:45:49.160 all three of us looking like this because it's also a reference to Colts as well which is kind 441 00:45:49.160 --> 00:45:55.160 of fun if not not all Colts but some queer Colts I love the idea of Sally getting the 442 00:45:55.160 --> 00:46:00.280 duotone cards out and making sure that she's got the right vaginal pink yeah she she loves it 443 00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:05.640 badge pink she's got it we've run out of time how's this possible I could talk to you guys 444 00:46:05.640 --> 00:46:11.080 all afternoon but thank you so much for joining us um today and on behalf of everybody who came 445 00:46:11.080 --> 00:46:15.240 today thank you so much for being so generous with your stories and telling us so much about your 446 00:46:15.240 --> 00:46:19.720 art and life it's it's an inspiration to me and I hope it's an inspiration to all of our viewers 447 00:46:19.720 --> 00:46:25.720 today as well so what we might do is say farewell and um and play the bloodlines clip for anybody 448 00:46:25.720 --> 00:46:30.280 who'd like to hang around and watch thank you for having us thank you for all this for a while yeah 449 00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:38.120 oh it's thank you thank you for listening yeah we'll talk to you again soon you guys want to 450 00:46:38.120 --> 00:46:42.840 hang on the line I'll talk to you afterwards just this bloodlines clip is it's just like a segment 451 00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:46.920 of it it's it's kind of spliced together it's not the whole thing but the whole one is on our 452 00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:52.120 website if if people want to watch the whole thing but we'll get them to drop that in the link to 453 00:46:52.120 --> 00:47:08.120 thanks Will thanks Garrett