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(lighthearted music)

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<v Brett>I saw Heath in a show</v>

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on the ABC "The Heights."

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He was acting. Came on screen,

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I was watching, it was probably

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what 15 episodes in that you appeared?

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<v ->Oh, that's right, yeah.</v>

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<v ->And I was watching and I thought, oh my god.</v>

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Look at that man.

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I have to photograph him.

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(Heath Laughing)

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So I put a call out on Facebook

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and eventually I tracked him down, sent an email and said

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I want to enter Heath in the National Portrait Prize.

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And it went from there and we met

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and then I went around to Heath's place,

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and that's how it happened.

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<v ->Yeah, it was, it was the first for me so,</v>

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yeah, thanks Brett.

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<v ->Did you like it?</v>

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<v ->Oh yeah, yeah, yeah!</v>

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And he got us a copy and we put that up.

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But you know, putting a photo up of yourself,

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Sort of wasn't long before I took it down.

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(both laughing)

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Sort of your own best employee

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of the month or something, you know?

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Oh, sort of, I'm good.

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Oh, who's that?

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<v ->It's-</v>

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<v ->But, but, yes. No, it was-</v>

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<v ->It's for them.</v>

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<v ->Yes, mum did love it.</v>

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Mum was like, "Hey, where'd that go?"

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No, I'm put it away.

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Yeah, we got paintings

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and stuff there, but, but yes, no, I did.

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<v Brett>Yeah. Good.</v>

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Because there's always, that's another really

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interesting point because you'd never really know.

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Like when I see a subject on the street

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cause I photograph, I go, I can see that person

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in the portrait, but you'd never really know

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if the person is overwhelmed with it or likes it or doesn't-

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<v ->Oh sure.</v>

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<v ->like the way they look and stuff like that.</v>

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So you very rarely find out.

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I keep in contact and always send a copy-

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<v ->Uh, yeah.</v>

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<v ->to people that I photograph, but you never get the</v>

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honest feedback, which is quite fascinating

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cause you don't know

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whether you hit the target.

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I know I got it for me.

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<v ->Yeah.</v>

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<v ->Of you.</v>

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<v ->But I don't know-</v>

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<v ->I think so, yeah, for me as well.</v>

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<v ->Yeah.</v>

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<v ->When I look at it, so sort of reminds me</v>

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like a wild black fella or something, you know

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like cause you're getting me to do a certain look.

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<v ->Yeah.</v>

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<v ->And I suppose from the acting background as well</v>

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it wasn't just taking still shots

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like for theatre and stuff like that.

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So like different expressions

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which we sort of directed me through that as well.

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Just, I think we did a couple of smiley ones

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just some serious ones and-

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<v Brett>Yeah.</v>

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<v ->So you've sort of directed me.</v>

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<v Brett>Yeah.</v>

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<v ->Which really helped as well.</v>

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<v Brett>But there's a when you say wild black fella,</v>

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I see a natural engaged-

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<v Heath>Oh right</v>

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<v Brett>Being.</v>

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<v Heath>Yep.</v>

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<v Brett>Right?</v>

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<v ->And, that view just sitting there looking at me</v>

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see when I photograph too, like I

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there's a little bit of direction, but my

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what I try to do is get out of the way.

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I try and get out of the way

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between you as a sitter and the viewer.

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So my thing is to just not get in the way.

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<v ->Sure.</v>

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<v ->By odd head positions or funny poses or stuff like that.</v>

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So that's my goal when I'm photographing.

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Just to dissolve somehow.

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<v ->Yeah, sure. Okay.</v>

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(lighthearted music continues)

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<v Brett>My influence, big influence for me is around 1850.</v>

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1850 Paris Nadar portraiture.

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Very simple. If you look at those images

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from around that period and Daguerreotypes

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and beyond that it's, you can see remnants of my images

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in there and it's, they're usually wearing black.

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It's a dark background

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it's natural light and it's very direct.

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(lighthearted music continues)

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When I first went back to study,

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I found myself in the studio shooting portraits

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and I knew I was gonna be a portrait photographer

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so I loved the meeting people and photographing faces

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but it was with the black background,

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black clothes, and the same thing.

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So, I haven't moved away

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in 30 years from doing the same thing.

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Like I can chart it all the way back

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on little 35mm negs, badly exposed, you know.

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(Heath laughing)

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<v ->But, so that simplicity of just engaging</v>

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and just becoming almost like a mirror that I'd try

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and hold up and then that person there,

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and it's reflected back into it,

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it's a really hard discipline to do because you

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there's nowhere to hide.

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If you get it wrong, it's wrong.

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And I, there's like, you have a handful

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of images that you go back to and they're really good

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and you love, and there's a handful of images

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that just don't get there.

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And you never know why.

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Like I can go out on a day and photograph someone

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and then meet someone else and do the same process

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and the same thing and the same light

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and whatever it is, there's no connection there.

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And it's not through my fault

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or the person sitting there, it's,

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there's a real, I don't know, the magic happens.

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I don't know how to explain it.

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Guess I'm lost for words.

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So, when that happens and you see it in the camera,

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you go, oh my god, there it is, I've got it.

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So that simplicity, it's almost

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like you put a set of boundaries on yourself.

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Daylight, black background, black clothes

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direct, front and centre.

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And just let the, the person come out.

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Even though, I don't know, like people say,

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"Oh, you can almost see their soul."

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I don't know about that. I'm not looking for that.

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Really, with a lot of direction,

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there is not a lot of direction I give.

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<v ->Yep.</v>

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<v ->Like, and there's a certain way where you get</v>

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to the point where you go just looking straight

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towards me and then good and then I go a little bit quiet

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and you can almost wait for the person to go.

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You can almost see the sitter going,

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"What's happening? What's happening?"

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And then they, then you just wait

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and wait and wait and then you've got it.

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So there's a little bit of a delay there

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and giving directions and stuff like that.

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Especially people on the street.

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Cause when I work on the street, man

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I'm like tucked into sidewalks

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and things like that and people are walking past.

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<v Heath>Yep.</v>

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<v Brett>And if you look at my portraits,</v>

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they look like they're in the studio, but it's not,

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it's out in the street where daily public life is happening.

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<v ->Yeah. Outside.</v>

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<v ->So that's why I always say, you know</v>

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the city is my casting agency and the sidewalk is my studio.

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<v ->Cool.</v>

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<v ->Cause that's where it happens.</v>

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The magic. You were a little bit different.

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Cause I went your backyard.

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<v ->Yeah</v>

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<v ->Yeah. Facebook is my casting agency</v>

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and the backyard is my studio.

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(Brett Laughing)

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<v ->Yeah. Nowadays a bit more so than.</v>

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(Heath Laughing)

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(lighthearted music ends)

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<v ->Yeah, I haven't seen it.</v>

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So, next time I'm over-

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<v ->Oh, yeah.</v>

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<v ->I'll have to drop in and have a look</v>

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<v ->Cause did you actually go over when,</v>

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or did you just submit it, or did you go to the Canberra?

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<v ->No, I, well here's a story.</v>

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Shh, shh, don't tell them.

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But, I submitted for the National Portrait Prize

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and they didn't select it.

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And then they bought it.

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<v ->And then, yeah right, because on the wall.</v>

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<v ->So I didn't get in that year.</v>

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<v Voice Offscreen>Why was that judged then?</v>

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<v ->What happened, Jo?</v>

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(all laughing)