WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:07.560 Welcome everybody. 2 00:00:07.560 --> 00:00:11.790 It's wonderful to see you here in person and online. 3 00:00:11.790 --> 00:00:14.150 So I would also like to acknowledge the Ngunnawal 4 00:00:14.150 --> 00:00:18.240 and Ngambri peoples, the traditional owners of the land, 5 00:00:18.240 --> 00:00:20.460 and pay my respects to the elders past, 6 00:00:20.460 --> 00:00:22.530 present, and emerging. 7 00:00:22.530 --> 00:00:25.620 I'd also like to extend that welcome to any Aboriginal 8 00:00:25.620 --> 00:00:28.380 and Torres Strait Islander peoples in the audience, 9 00:00:28.380 --> 00:00:30.333 either here or online. 10 00:00:31.530 --> 00:00:36.530 So, would you mind those who are here just raising your hand 11 00:00:38.490 --> 00:00:41.340 line:15% if you've already had a chance to look at the exhibition? 12 00:00:42.936 --> 00:00:44.550 line:15% Okay, so a lot of you will be familiar 13 00:00:44.550 --> 00:00:46.200 line:15% with the works I'm going to show. 14 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:49.350 line:15% So as you may know then, 15 00:00:49.350 --> 00:00:52.620 line:15% the exhibition Shakespeare to Winehouse 16 00:00:52.620 --> 00:00:55.770 line:15% is organised according to themes. 17 00:00:55.770 --> 00:00:59.430 line:15% And to quote the catalogue, these themes are regarded 18 00:00:59.430 --> 00:01:02.340 line:15% as being intrinsic to portraiture. 19 00:01:02.340 --> 00:01:07.340 line:15% So they're identified as fame, identity, self, innovation, 20 00:01:09.420 --> 00:01:11.883 line:15% power, love, and loss. 21 00:01:12.900 --> 00:01:15.930 I'm gonna touch on some of these themes in passing, 22 00:01:15.930 --> 00:01:18.720 but I'm not going to deal with them in any depth 23 00:01:18.720 --> 00:01:22.230 because what I want to do today is put the photographs 24 00:01:22.230 --> 00:01:24.930 in the exhibition into context. 25 00:01:24.930 --> 00:01:29.930 I'm going to pose three questions and we'll go through them. 26 00:01:30.180 --> 00:01:31.950 This is the way I've structured the talk 27 00:01:31.950 --> 00:01:33.240 around these questions. 28 00:01:33.240 --> 00:01:35.760 And then there's going to be a more open section 29 00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:39.810 where I'm going to discuss other issues right at the end. 30 00:01:39.810 --> 00:01:43.470 So the first question is pretty straightforward one, 31 00:01:43.470 --> 00:01:47.250 and that is how do the photographs in the exhibition relate 32 00:01:47.250 --> 00:01:50.350 to the history and practise of portraiture? 33 00:01:50.350 --> 00:01:52.470 And then the second question is, 34 00:01:52.470 --> 00:01:55.500 well, what do the photographic portraits do 35 00:01:55.500 --> 00:01:57.810 that works in other media don't? 36 00:01:57.810 --> 00:02:00.213 So that's more about how are they different. 37 00:02:01.380 --> 00:02:03.660 And related to that, what's unique 38 00:02:03.660 --> 00:02:06.540 about some of the photographic portraits on display? 39 00:02:06.540 --> 00:02:09.120 So we will take our time and look at a few of them 40 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:10.800 in more depth. 41 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:12.300 And then in the last part, 42 00:02:12.300 --> 00:02:14.820 this more open ended part of my talk. 43 00:02:14.820 --> 00:02:17.070 I'm going to look at the interrelationship 44 00:02:17.070 --> 00:02:20.010 between private and public space, 45 00:02:20.010 --> 00:02:23.040 which can be seen in the photographs in the exhibition. 46 00:02:23.040 --> 00:02:25.260 But not only in the exhibition, 47 00:02:25.260 --> 00:02:28.920 this applies really much more to portraiture generally. 48 00:02:28.920 --> 00:02:33.600 So I'm going to refer to a few other examples of portraiture 49 00:02:33.600 --> 00:02:38.190 that are in the national photographic portrait prize, 50 00:02:38.190 --> 00:02:41.610 and also in the NPGs collection. 51 00:02:41.610 --> 00:02:43.563 Most of these works are on display. 52 00:02:44.565 --> 00:02:47.520 Now, what I have to tell you at the outset is that 53 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:50.970 this exhibition has really strict copyright provisions. 54 00:02:50.970 --> 00:02:54.090 And so I'm not able to show you some of the photographs 55 00:02:54.090 --> 00:02:56.940 that I really want to draw your attention to. 56 00:02:56.940 --> 00:02:59.100 And it means what we're going to do, 57 00:02:59.100 --> 00:03:00.660 I'm gonna try something else instead, 58 00:03:00.660 --> 00:03:04.050 which is use a limited number of the photographic portraits 59 00:03:04.050 --> 00:03:07.200 that are in the show, but we'll keep coming back to them. 60 00:03:07.200 --> 00:03:09.000 So we'll repeat them, 61 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:11.940 but they will be thinking about them in different contexts, 62 00:03:11.940 --> 00:03:14.550 because of course they relate individually 63 00:03:14.550 --> 00:03:16.950 to some of those questions that I'm posing. 64 00:03:16.950 --> 00:03:19.780 And then I'm hoping that what I'm raising for you 65 00:03:19.780 --> 00:03:23.160 would be transferable skills that once you've looked 66 00:03:23.160 --> 00:03:26.160 at this, you'll be able to go into the other exhibitions 67 00:03:26.160 --> 00:03:29.220 that are on display, including Shakespeare to Winehouse, 68 00:03:29.220 --> 00:03:30.720 and apply some of the things 69 00:03:30.720 --> 00:03:32.763 that we are going to be talking about. 70 00:03:33.870 --> 00:03:36.210 So let's begin then with this first question 71 00:03:36.210 --> 00:03:38.910 relating to the history of portraiture. 72 00:03:38.910 --> 00:03:41.310 And we're very lucky in one sense 73 00:03:41.310 --> 00:03:45.540 that because the exhibition isn't organised chronologically 74 00:03:45.540 --> 00:03:49.260 or according to media, 'cause there's different ways 75 00:03:49.260 --> 00:03:51.150 you can organise the show 76 00:03:51.150 --> 00:03:55.080 and the national photographic portraiture award, 77 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:58.140 if you think about that, of course it's just photographs. 78 00:03:58.140 --> 00:03:59.670 It's specific to medium. 79 00:03:59.670 --> 00:04:01.440 Where Shakespeare to Winehouse 80 00:04:01.440 --> 00:04:04.230 is what we call an integrated hang. 81 00:04:04.230 --> 00:04:08.850 So you see paintings, you see prints, you see photographs, 82 00:04:08.850 --> 00:04:11.160 you've got a whole range of media in there. 83 00:04:11.160 --> 00:04:12.750 But as you would expect, 84 00:04:12.750 --> 00:04:16.079 because it is a show that's gotten historical sweep, 85 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:20.853 you'll find that the dominant medium is oil painting. 86 00:04:22.140 --> 00:04:25.530 Shakespeare here, as an example, obviously of that. 87 00:04:25.530 --> 00:04:29.119 line:15% And then this, which I think is absolutely stunning. 88 00:04:29.119 --> 00:04:31.830 line:15% That has to be my takeaway painting. 89 00:04:31.830 --> 00:04:33.450 line:15% I think that is so extraordinary. 90 00:04:33.450 --> 00:04:34.650 line:15% The Capel family, 91 00:04:34.650 --> 00:04:37.110 line:15% one of the richest families in England at the time. 92 00:04:37.110 --> 00:04:41.370 line:15% And don't you just know it just from looking at that setup, 93 00:04:41.370 --> 00:04:43.623 line:15% but how beautifully executed it is. 94 00:04:44.880 --> 00:04:47.160 line:15% Okay, so it means then that 95 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:49.230 line:15% when we are looking at Shakespeare to Winehouse, 96 00:04:49.230 --> 00:04:52.290 line:15% we'll see these photographs in the context 97 00:04:52.290 --> 00:04:56.703 line:15% of these other works, other examples of portraiture. 98 00:04:57.810 --> 00:05:00.150 line:15% So some things become clear straight away. 99 00:05:00.150 --> 00:05:03.660 line:15% And that is that the photograph centre are just in dialogue 100 00:05:03.660 --> 00:05:05.411 line:15% with portraiture generally, regardless of what medium, 101 00:05:05.411 --> 00:05:09.870 line:15% the portraits have been executed in. 102 00:05:09.870 --> 00:05:13.170 So there is a shared visual vocabulary and operation. 103 00:05:13.170 --> 00:05:14.162 And you can ask yourself, oh, 104 00:05:14.162 --> 00:05:17.160 what do they have in common with the other ones, You know? 105 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:19.080 And then what is different? 106 00:05:19.080 --> 00:05:22.350 But it means that any photographer making a portrait 107 00:05:22.350 --> 00:05:26.100 like any painter, is engaging with well established 108 00:05:26.100 --> 00:05:27.510 historical conventions. 109 00:05:27.510 --> 00:05:29.130 You cannot get away from them 110 00:05:29.130 --> 00:05:31.140 'cause we're surrounded by portraiture. 111 00:05:31.140 --> 00:05:34.491 We know we're carrying consciously and unconsciously with us 112 00:05:34.491 --> 00:05:37.890 a knowledge about how portraiture works. 113 00:05:37.890 --> 00:05:40.470 And so what you'll see straight off is that 114 00:05:40.470 --> 00:05:44.940 line:15% the photographic portraits also favour 115 00:05:44.940 --> 00:05:46.923 line:15% a head and shoulders view. 116 00:05:46.923 --> 00:05:51.923 line:15% There are very few that are full body, full pose. 117 00:05:52.140 --> 00:05:57.140 line:15% You'll see much more the face or down to the middle. 118 00:05:57.270 --> 00:06:00.971 line:15% So that's the preference, is head and shoulders view. 119 00:06:00.971 --> 00:06:03.150 line:15% And then of course, because they portraits 120 00:06:03.150 --> 00:06:05.700 line:15% attention being directed to the face, 121 00:06:05.700 --> 00:06:08.340 line:15% and the face is often lit in a way then 122 00:06:08.340 --> 00:06:12.603 that you're going to be able to concentrate on that. 123 00:06:13.530 --> 00:06:16.710 line:15% So you would know that Mandela was the president 124 00:06:16.710 --> 00:06:21.210 of South Africa. And then this young woman you would know 125 00:06:21.210 --> 00:06:25.410 as a activist for the education of young girls. 126 00:06:25.410 --> 00:06:29.290 She was shot by a member of the Taliban 127 00:06:30.660 --> 00:06:32.220 when she was still at school. 128 00:06:32.220 --> 00:06:36.210 Now she lives in England, where she was born in Pakistan. 129 00:06:36.210 --> 00:06:39.990 So why have this here is to show you not just the head 130 00:06:39.990 --> 00:06:44.550 and shoulders view, but also this other common thing 131 00:06:44.550 --> 00:06:47.521 to all the portraits there that we see. 132 00:06:47.521 --> 00:06:52.170 And it's this sense of gravity, of seriousness. 133 00:06:52.170 --> 00:06:54.510 There's very little in the exhibition 134 00:06:54.510 --> 00:06:57.540 in the photographic range that is really lighthearted. 135 00:06:57.540 --> 00:07:00.330 Sure there's a photograph of the grinning Beatles, 136 00:07:00.330 --> 00:07:01.920 early on in their career. 137 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:05.670 But generally the tone is more serious than that. 138 00:07:05.670 --> 00:07:09.060 Now that's not surprising because of the subjects 139 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:11.940 and because of the national portrait gallery in London, 140 00:07:11.940 --> 00:07:15.870 its brief is to collect portraits of eminent people. 141 00:07:15.870 --> 00:07:18.540 So, we are obviously going to expect 142 00:07:18.540 --> 00:07:20.430 that many imminent people are going to want 143 00:07:20.430 --> 00:07:23.010 to present themselves very seriously. 144 00:07:23.010 --> 00:07:25.502 And it means that smiles are very rare. 145 00:07:25.502 --> 00:07:28.170 Half a smile, perhaps from lady Diana, 146 00:07:28.170 --> 00:07:31.743 but generally very few smiles. 147 00:07:33.840 --> 00:07:35.840 So what they also have in common then 148 00:07:35.840 --> 00:07:39.060 line:15% is this real self-consciousness imposed 149 00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:41.100 line:15% they're what we call formal portraits. 150 00:07:41.100 --> 00:07:44.430 line:15% They're studied rather than being spontaneous. 151 00:07:44.430 --> 00:07:49.430 line:15% And this is a great example where the subject 152 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:51.930 line:15% Aubrey Beardsley the illustrator, 153 00:07:51.930 --> 00:07:55.740 line:15% I mean what a profile and to present him as a gargoyle, 154 00:07:55.740 --> 00:07:58.590 line:15% I mean that's where photographer and subject, 155 00:07:58.590 --> 00:08:00.930 line:15% maybe they've come up with the idea together. 156 00:08:00.930 --> 00:08:03.300 line:15% But you'll know those figures of course, 157 00:08:03.300 --> 00:08:07.230 line:15% that are attached to buildings, especially you'll see them 158 00:08:07.230 --> 00:08:10.200 line:15% in England and Gothic architecture and so on. 159 00:08:10.200 --> 00:08:12.963 line:15% So, really self-conscious references. 160 00:08:13.890 --> 00:08:17.182 And then even when settings appear more informal 161 00:08:17.182 --> 00:08:19.200 as in a case like this, 162 00:08:19.200 --> 00:08:23.490 line:15% because this is a really stunning portrait, I think, 163 00:08:23.490 --> 00:08:27.390 line:15% of the surrealist artist, Leonora Carrington. 164 00:08:27.390 --> 00:08:30.750 line:15% There's actually little spontaneity even in that. 165 00:08:30.750 --> 00:08:33.840 line:15% But note that the photographer here, Lee Miller, 166 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:36.390 line:15% her practise was as a documentary photographer. 167 00:08:36.390 --> 00:08:40.470 line:15% She was someone who was also influenced by surrealism. 168 00:08:40.470 --> 00:08:44.310 line:15% So the fact that she takes her portrait out of doors 169 00:08:44.310 --> 00:08:47.040 line:15% is part of her documentary background 170 00:08:47.040 --> 00:08:49.380 line:15% rather than her being in the studio. 171 00:08:49.380 --> 00:08:51.990 line:15% But the portrait itself still has a lot of formality 172 00:08:51.990 --> 00:08:52.823 line:15% about it, doesn't it? 173 00:08:52.823 --> 00:08:54.780 line:15% And a lot of gravity. 174 00:08:54.780 --> 00:08:57.330 line:15% So it means then yeah, 175 00:08:57.330 --> 00:09:00.000 line:15% even when you see these informal settings, 176 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:03.420 line:15% there is this level of self-consciousness. 177 00:09:03.420 --> 00:09:05.490 line:15% Another portrait that's in this vein 178 00:09:05.490 --> 00:09:08.430 is one of the outstanding works in the exhibition, 179 00:09:08.430 --> 00:09:12.570 is by Richard Avedon and it's of the poet W A Jordan. 180 00:09:12.570 --> 00:09:17.220 And where he's standing, is in the street in New York 181 00:09:17.220 --> 00:09:18.720 during a snowfall. 182 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:23.580 So you have a writer who is not being identified 183 00:09:23.580 --> 00:09:26.310 with his tools of his trade at all. 184 00:09:26.310 --> 00:09:30.150 But as, in one way, you might think part of the people, 185 00:09:30.150 --> 00:09:32.580 but then in another totally separated from them 186 00:09:32.580 --> 00:09:34.530 because he just looms so large 187 00:09:34.530 --> 00:09:39.530 in this rather documentary oriented image. 188 00:09:39.780 --> 00:09:41.880 So make sure you look at that carefully 189 00:09:41.880 --> 00:09:43.173 when you have a chance. 190 00:09:44.040 --> 00:09:47.310 line:15% So what we do see much more then is that regardless 191 00:09:47.310 --> 00:09:49.830 line:15% of medium, the portraits are planned, 192 00:09:49.830 --> 00:09:51.510 line:15% staged, and controlled. 193 00:09:51.510 --> 00:09:54.360 line:15% And the dominant setting is not outdoors at all 194 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:56.402 line:15% it's indoors, and where is it? 195 00:09:56.402 --> 00:09:58.560 line:15% In the studio, okay? 196 00:09:58.560 --> 00:10:01.050 line:15% And what great examples these are. 197 00:10:01.050 --> 00:10:05.760 line:15% So there's two by Dorothy Wilding and this, 198 00:10:07.841 --> 00:10:10.950 line:15% Anna May Wong was an actress. 199 00:10:10.950 --> 00:10:15.950 line:15% And I just want you to notice one really important thing 200 00:10:17.280 --> 00:10:19.440 line:15% about her, which we're gonna come back to. 201 00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:21.390 line:15% And that is the averted gaze, 202 00:10:21.390 --> 00:10:23.910 line:15% because here we have still not the full body, 203 00:10:23.910 --> 00:10:25.380 line:15% it's a longer view, 204 00:10:25.380 --> 00:10:29.811 line:15% but just note that she isn't looking directly out at you 205 00:10:29.811 --> 00:10:31.860 line:15% and we'll think about the implications of that later. 206 00:10:31.860 --> 00:10:35.580 line:15% And then the singer and actor Harry Belafonte. 207 00:10:35.580 --> 00:10:38.640 line:15% What I would like to direct your attention to here 208 00:10:38.640 --> 00:10:42.810 line:15% in particular, is how close he is. 209 00:10:42.810 --> 00:10:45.240 line:15% You could almost reach out and touch him. 210 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:47.700 line:15% And yet because of the formality and that 211 00:10:47.700 --> 00:10:51.600 line:15% in this photograph, which is wonderfully sensuous, 212 00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:54.480 line:15% he is still in his world and you are in yours. 213 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:59.480 line:15% So, there is no direct eye contact with you as the viewer. 214 00:10:59.670 --> 00:11:02.400 line:15% So there is a kind of distancing going on 215 00:11:02.400 --> 00:11:05.220 line:15% and that relates to why this talk is titled 216 00:11:05.220 --> 00:11:07.170 line:15% about changing spaces. 217 00:11:07.170 --> 00:11:10.140 line:15% You know, think about this interplay 218 00:11:10.140 --> 00:11:11.853 line:15% between public and private. 219 00:11:13.620 --> 00:11:17.910 line:15% So the subjects generally in the exhibition, 220 00:11:17.910 --> 00:11:22.890 line:15% the photographs on display, they do look out of the frame, 221 00:11:22.890 --> 00:11:26.700 line:15% but we can't always tell if they are looking directly at us, 222 00:11:26.700 --> 00:11:28.050 line:15% the viewer. 223 00:11:28.050 --> 00:11:30.000 line:15% Be interesting in a projection where it is 224 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:31.410 line:15% you think she's looking, 225 00:11:31.410 --> 00:11:34.140 line:15% 'cause I haven't seen this projected from that angle. 226 00:11:34.140 --> 00:11:35.850 line:15% But in the exhibition, 227 00:11:35.850 --> 00:11:39.030 line:15% I feel like she's just looking beyond me, you know? 228 00:11:39.030 --> 00:11:41.040 line:15% Just slightly beyond. 229 00:11:41.040 --> 00:11:44.400 line:15% And in that gaze of course, that address to the camera, 230 00:11:44.400 --> 00:11:47.100 line:15% you get all sorts of things that happen in that space too, 231 00:11:47.100 --> 00:11:49.413 line:15% about intimacy and distance. 232 00:11:50.550 --> 00:11:54.420 line:15% So when it comes to considering the works in material terms, 233 00:11:54.420 --> 00:11:58.260 line:15% as physical objects, you'll also see in the photographs, 234 00:11:58.260 --> 00:12:01.710 line:15% the persistence of certain portraiture traditions. 235 00:12:01.710 --> 00:12:06.090 line:15% And one that's immediately obvious relates to scale. 236 00:12:06.090 --> 00:12:09.390 line:15% Now this is a really large portrait. 237 00:12:09.390 --> 00:12:11.880 line:15% So it commands your attention from the start. 238 00:12:11.880 --> 00:12:14.430 line:15% It's what we would call an honorific portrait. 239 00:12:14.430 --> 00:12:17.880 line:15% It's made to honour the subject and the scale, 240 00:12:17.880 --> 00:12:19.650 line:15% the size of it is part of that. 241 00:12:19.650 --> 00:12:23.251 line:15% It's what's alerting you to its importance. 242 00:12:23.251 --> 00:12:28.251 line:15% And there's a term often used now in artistry, 243 00:12:28.500 --> 00:12:31.170 line:15% is called the material turn, 244 00:12:31.170 --> 00:12:33.870 line:15% in art historical or cultural studies. 245 00:12:33.870 --> 00:12:38.130 line:15% Where we're much more aware of how artworks operate 246 00:12:38.130 --> 00:12:41.430 line:15% as objects, what their physicality does. 247 00:12:41.430 --> 00:12:45.060 line:15% And scale, as I say is immediately obvious 248 00:12:45.060 --> 00:12:48.450 line:15% because all the photographs will be asking you 249 00:12:48.450 --> 00:12:51.750 line:15% to position yourself somewhere in relation to them. 250 00:12:51.750 --> 00:12:53.880 line:15% Do you a long way back? 251 00:12:53.880 --> 00:12:56.730 line:15% Do you need to come really close because it's small 252 00:12:56.730 --> 00:12:58.020 line:15% and it's more intimate? 253 00:12:58.020 --> 00:13:01.110 line:15% So as you're going around the exhibition or any exhibition, 254 00:13:01.110 --> 00:13:03.930 line:15% just note where the optimum viewing position is 255 00:13:03.930 --> 00:13:06.300 line:15% because it will affect your response, 256 00:13:06.300 --> 00:13:11.130 line:15% to the way that you respond to the works 257 00:13:11.130 --> 00:13:13.740 that sometimes it's unconscious, you'll just move forward, 258 00:13:13.740 --> 00:13:15.000 other times you'll move back. 259 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:18.630 But of course the photographer will have taken all that 260 00:13:18.630 --> 00:13:19.620 into account. 261 00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:22.803 They have an idea of where you might be. 262 00:13:24.030 --> 00:13:26.310 So ones like this, 263 00:13:26.310 --> 00:13:30.753 actually they just rival the scale of some of the paintings. 264 00:13:31.650 --> 00:13:35.820 And then also in the exhibition, a really outstanding work, 265 00:13:35.820 --> 00:13:38.610 it's a black and white portrait of the model, 266 00:13:38.610 --> 00:13:41.100 Kate Moss by Mario Sorrenti. 267 00:13:41.100 --> 00:13:45.270 She's nude and of there are references to billboard 268 00:13:45.270 --> 00:13:50.270 and advertising imagery in these large scale works too. 269 00:13:50.310 --> 00:13:52.923 So the next shared factor is patronage. 270 00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:59.393 line:15% So as with the paintings and works in other media, 271 00:14:00.450 --> 00:14:03.390 line:15% most of the photographs that you'll see are the result 272 00:14:03.390 --> 00:14:06.570 line:15% of a commission, they've been taken for a reason. 273 00:14:06.570 --> 00:14:09.408 line:15% And again, it's usually indicative of the subject's standing 274 00:14:09.408 --> 00:14:12.330 line:15% in society, their eminence. 275 00:14:12.330 --> 00:14:14.493 line:15% And you'll also see across the board, 276 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:20.720 line:15% famous sitters being paired with famous artists as well. 277 00:14:22.110 --> 00:14:24.990 line:15% In the photographic term, I can't show you this image, 278 00:14:24.990 --> 00:14:29.280 line:15% but it's David Bowie is photographed by Lord Snowdon. 279 00:14:29.280 --> 00:14:34.280 line:15% So you have two people who are very obviously high profile 280 00:14:34.740 --> 00:14:36.690 line:15% in British society. 281 00:14:36.690 --> 00:14:38.940 line:15% But the Royal patronage examples, 282 00:14:38.940 --> 00:14:41.520 line:15% I just wanted to show you then, okay, 283 00:14:41.520 --> 00:14:44.910 line:15% here's an example from look at the date 1575, 284 00:14:44.910 --> 00:14:46.800 line:15% quite extraordinary. 285 00:14:46.800 --> 00:14:51.800 line:15% And then a contemporary example of Royal patronage right? 286 00:14:52.980 --> 00:14:54.030 line:15% 'cause Terence Donovan 287 00:14:54.030 --> 00:14:57.450 line:15% is another extremely well known photograph. 288 00:14:57.450 --> 00:15:00.303 line:15% And this is of Diana princess of Wales. 289 00:15:02.100 --> 00:15:05.640 line:15% Now these subjects then by virtue of being royalty, 290 00:15:05.640 --> 00:15:07.773 line:15% have a lot of power themselves. 291 00:15:08.610 --> 00:15:12.120 line:15% They have power in the sense they can also say what they do 292 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:14.853 line:15% and don't want, what they will and what will not do. 293 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.570 line:15% And sometimes they will go further than that, 294 00:15:18.570 --> 00:15:20.490 line:15% where they'll become active collaborators 295 00:15:20.490 --> 00:15:21.960 line:15% with their photographer. 296 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.600 Especially those celebrities used to performing 297 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:25.590 to the camera. 298 00:15:25.590 --> 00:15:27.120 This is an early work of Diana. 299 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:31.710 So you might say it's more naive or more low key 300 00:15:31.710 --> 00:15:33.120 than perhaps some of the other ones 301 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:35.580 where she'd be more actively playing with a look 302 00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:37.080 that she wants. 303 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:40.410 And yet we must remember at the same time 304 00:15:40.410 --> 00:15:42.342 that the subject has power. 305 00:15:42.342 --> 00:15:45.930 That it's not only the photographer then 306 00:15:45.930 --> 00:15:48.480 that is in this relationship with the subject 307 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:52.230 because really as an R-A-R-E-L-Y, 308 00:15:52.230 --> 00:15:54.060 is it a one-on-one interaction? 309 00:15:54.060 --> 00:15:57.930 Behind the scenes, there'll be all sorts of discussions 310 00:15:57.930 --> 00:16:01.620 going on about the image concept, about styling, 311 00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:04.710 involving hair, dress, jewels and so on. 312 00:16:04.710 --> 00:16:07.110 We know for example, that Margaret Thatcher 313 00:16:07.110 --> 00:16:10.710 she's in the exhibition photographed by Norman Parkinson, 314 00:16:10.710 --> 00:16:14.220 is wearing an outfit that she didn't choose herself. 315 00:16:14.220 --> 00:16:16.710 He chose it for her and that's a power suit 316 00:16:16.710 --> 00:16:19.860 because clearly he wanted to make it obvious 317 00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:22.890 that she had status in standing as the prime minister 318 00:16:22.890 --> 00:16:24.180 in England. 319 00:16:24.180 --> 00:16:26.760 So he said he selected the tailored suit 320 00:16:26.760 --> 00:16:28.890 to suggest the order and deficiency 321 00:16:28.890 --> 00:16:31.590 associated with her public image. 322 00:16:31.590 --> 00:16:33.750 And you'll see this in the painting too. 323 00:16:33.750 --> 00:16:37.440 line:15% This is where John Millais, 324 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:42.440 line:15% he actually discussed with his subject what she should wear. 325 00:16:42.750 --> 00:16:45.870 line:15% He wanted a dress that would bring out all his skills 326 00:16:45.870 --> 00:16:48.330 line:15% as a painter, that he could really go to town on, 327 00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:49.863 line:15% and he has beautifully. 328 00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:54.014 line:15% So as for the photographers themselves, 329 00:16:54.014 --> 00:16:57.926 line:15% they would've been fully aware of other photographs 330 00:16:57.926 --> 00:17:00.600 line:15% taken of their famous subjects. 331 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:03.450 line:15% They're already there in their image bank. 332 00:17:03.450 --> 00:17:05.880 line:15% And they would've been determined to differentiate 333 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:08.070 line:15% their work from their competitors 334 00:17:08.070 --> 00:17:11.250 line:15% because everyone has a particular look as a photographer. 335 00:17:11.250 --> 00:17:13.170 line:15% You know, David Bailey does work like this, 336 00:17:13.170 --> 00:17:15.060 Lord Snowdon does work like that. 337 00:17:15.060 --> 00:17:17.220 line:15% So you want your competitive edge 338 00:17:17.220 --> 00:17:20.610 line:15% 'cause it's a very tight market. 339 00:17:20.610 --> 00:17:23.550 line:15% And yeah, there's a way of perpetuating the look 340 00:17:23.550 --> 00:17:25.803 line:15% that they become famous for. 341 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:30.960 line:15% And this is going to be a photograph I'm using now 342 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.120 line:15% as our light motif. 343 00:17:33.120 --> 00:17:35.640 line:15% It's something that we'll keep coming back to. 344 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:39.600 line:15% So, this leads me in fact to the second question 345 00:17:39.600 --> 00:17:40.433 line:15% that I posed, 346 00:17:40.433 --> 00:17:44.910 and that is what do photographic portraits do differently? 347 00:17:44.910 --> 00:17:48.600 We've looked already at how they are similar in a way, 348 00:17:48.600 --> 00:17:52.200 the dialogue they enter into with the traditions 349 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:54.750 of portraiture more generally. 350 00:17:54.750 --> 00:17:55.953 So crucially, 351 00:17:56.970 --> 00:17:59.163 and this is different to a lot of the other works 352 00:17:59.163 --> 00:18:00.840 that are on display. 353 00:18:00.840 --> 00:18:04.650 The photographs were made predominantly for reproduction 354 00:18:04.650 --> 00:18:08.294 and especially in magazines because in this period 355 00:18:08.294 --> 00:18:11.182 that photography's coming into its own in portraiture 356 00:18:11.182 --> 00:18:12.060 in the 20th century. 357 00:18:12.060 --> 00:18:15.210 But especially in the second half of the 20th century, 358 00:18:15.210 --> 00:18:16.980 magazines are booming. 359 00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:19.260 So you have all the popular magazines like Vogue, 360 00:18:19.260 --> 00:18:21.180 and Harper's Bazaar, and so on. 361 00:18:21.180 --> 00:18:24.120 But you also have those niche magazines in England, 362 00:18:24.120 --> 00:18:26.880 like ID, The Face, and so on. 363 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:28.920 And that means that these magazines 364 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:33.920 have been absolutely central to this whole consolidation 365 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.230 and perpetuation, what we call celebrity culture. 366 00:18:37.230 --> 00:18:40.740 They promoted the celebrities are promoted through articles 367 00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:44.550 in the magazines, but also through their advertisements 368 00:18:44.550 --> 00:18:47.100 for fashion, for products, and so on. 369 00:18:47.100 --> 00:18:49.680 But it will help explain when you look at a photograph 370 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:53.070 line:15% like this, the strong graphic qualities. 371 00:18:53.070 --> 00:18:55.260 line:15% Because if you have a photograph that has a whole lot 372 00:18:55.260 --> 00:18:57.480 line:15% of background stuff going on, 373 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.210 line:15% it might not have the same visual appeal, 374 00:19:00.210 --> 00:19:02.460 line:15% the same sort of clarity of emphasis. 375 00:19:02.460 --> 00:19:06.780 line:15% So you will often find that these celebrity portraits 376 00:19:06.780 --> 00:19:08.310 line:15% are paired right back. 377 00:19:08.310 --> 00:19:11.610 line:15% There is not a lot of detail around them. 378 00:19:11.610 --> 00:19:14.400 line:15% So this brings me to my second point about these. 379 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.087 line:15% And that is that what you see happening in the second half 380 00:19:17.087 --> 00:19:21.360 of the 20th century, is that the face and fame 381 00:19:21.360 --> 00:19:22.713 become conflated. 382 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:27.480 All you need for these famous people is their face. 383 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:30.510 And maybe sometimes the body, especially if they're models, 384 00:19:30.510 --> 00:19:34.320 but you don't need a whole lot of other detail. 385 00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:39.320 And it means then in the exhibition Shakespeare to Winehouse 386 00:19:39.810 --> 00:19:43.800 you will find very few portraits of the genre 387 00:19:43.800 --> 00:19:45.993 that we call environmental portraits. 388 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:50.490 And what I mean by that is that the, where the subject, 389 00:19:50.490 --> 00:19:54.540 instead of just being with a blank background in a studio, 390 00:19:54.540 --> 00:19:57.090 line:15% is in a carefully curated setting 391 00:19:57.090 --> 00:19:59.910 line:15% with props around them, accessories that help establish 392 00:19:59.910 --> 00:20:03.570 line:15% their occupation and their standing in society. 393 00:20:03.570 --> 00:20:06.300 Because if you look at a painting for example, 394 00:20:06.300 --> 00:20:09.600 now this is extraordinary that we get to see this 395 00:20:09.600 --> 00:20:10.433 in Australia. 396 00:20:10.433 --> 00:20:12.557 line:15% It's so important in the history of portraiture 397 00:20:12.557 --> 00:20:15.480 line:15% but in the history of women's art too. 398 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:19.080 line:15% We know straight away, oh, she's a painter 399 00:20:19.080 --> 00:20:21.210 line:15% because all the tools of her trade are there, 400 00:20:21.210 --> 00:20:24.720 line:15% the chalks, the crayons, the leather bound book. 401 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:26.973 line:15% Or something like this, 402 00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:31.440 line:15% we can tell the painter is giving us all the clues 403 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.440 line:15% that his subject is an Explorer. 404 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:37.020 line:15% One of the most obvious ones in the exhibition, 405 00:20:37.020 --> 00:20:39.303 line:15% Shakespeare to Winehouse of a boxer. 406 00:20:40.350 --> 00:20:45.060 And this is taken by Don McCullen of the boxer, Frank Bruno, 407 00:20:45.060 --> 00:20:49.680 because he sits on chair, but next to him is a training ring 408 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:51.570 and his hands are all bandaged, 409 00:20:51.570 --> 00:20:53.340 but they look like boxing gloves. 410 00:20:53.340 --> 00:20:54.780 They make that reference of course, 411 00:20:54.780 --> 00:20:57.090 to the hands and the punching. 412 00:20:57.090 --> 00:21:01.440 So this is an example where detail is all important. 413 00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:05.040 We can tell immediately what the occupation 414 00:21:05.040 --> 00:21:07.410 of a subject like that is. 415 00:21:07.410 --> 00:21:09.330 And stepping away from the exhibition 416 00:21:09.330 --> 00:21:13.950 line:15% into the NPGs collection, this kind of portrait 417 00:21:13.950 --> 00:21:18.180 line:15% by Greg Weight of the painter Suzie Petyarre, 418 00:21:18.180 --> 00:21:20.370 line:15% so you know straight away she's a painter. 419 00:21:20.370 --> 00:21:24.125 line:15% Everything is in there to tell you about that. 420 00:21:24.125 --> 00:21:28.260 line:15% But in fact, what is much more typical in the exhibition 421 00:21:28.260 --> 00:21:30.690 line:15% are these kinds of portraits 422 00:21:30.690 --> 00:21:33.540 line:15% for reasons that I've already explained. 423 00:21:33.540 --> 00:21:36.300 We know David Beckham is a footballer, 424 00:21:36.300 --> 00:21:38.760 but he's also described as a model. 425 00:21:38.760 --> 00:21:41.700 But we don't, all we need is the face in the body. 426 00:21:41.700 --> 00:21:45.540 There are no props, none of his commercial products 427 00:21:45.540 --> 00:21:46.950 in the image there. 428 00:21:46.950 --> 00:21:49.650 And Jagger, Mick Jagger and David Bowie, 429 00:21:49.650 --> 00:21:53.070 likewise in the exhibition, there's no instruments in sight. 430 00:21:53.070 --> 00:21:54.330 They're not needed. 431 00:21:54.330 --> 00:21:57.690 And then a great example, you'll be able to go and see this 432 00:21:57.690 --> 00:22:00.600 line:15% in the first introductory room in the portrait gallery 433 00:22:00.600 --> 00:22:04.110 line:15% is Robin Sellick portrait of the late Shane Warne. 434 00:22:04.110 --> 00:22:06.630 line:15% Now, if you came from outer space 435 00:22:06.630 --> 00:22:08.850 line:15% and you came across this image, 436 00:22:08.850 --> 00:22:11.010 line:15% you are not going to know he's a cricketer, right? 437 00:22:11.010 --> 00:22:12.960 line:15% There is just nothing in there 438 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:15.232 line:15% that gives you that information. 439 00:22:15.232 --> 00:22:20.220 line:15% If you come from Australia, you already know from that face, 440 00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:24.090 line:15% that's been in the news countless times, 441 00:22:24.090 --> 00:22:26.940 line:15% that was advertising hair product and so on that, 442 00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:29.460 line:15% that is Warnie. 443 00:22:29.460 --> 00:22:32.280 line:15% And notice the halo like effect 444 00:22:32.280 --> 00:22:34.110 line:15% that he has created around there. 445 00:22:34.110 --> 00:22:36.180 line:15% So that helps you understand 446 00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:38.370 line:15% that this is an important subject. 447 00:22:38.370 --> 00:22:41.400 line:15% I mean, he's just booming out of that image 448 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:42.660 line:15% through the light, 449 00:22:42.660 --> 00:22:45.813 line:15% the kind of propulsion that is coming through it. 450 00:22:46.650 --> 00:22:50.253 line:15% So, compared to the old days, 451 00:22:50.253 --> 00:22:54.750 line:15% if you think of something like this, 452 00:22:54.750 --> 00:22:58.560 line:15% where there is so much information and detail 453 00:22:58.560 --> 00:23:02.850 line:15% to make it clear to you that this is a person of status. 454 00:23:02.850 --> 00:23:06.090 line:15% This is a person has the reputation. 455 00:23:06.090 --> 00:23:09.180 line:15% And it's interesting to contrast it with something like this 456 00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:13.336 line:15% now, where it's so much more paired down. 457 00:23:13.336 --> 00:23:15.900 line:15% Certainly I think those earrings to me, 458 00:23:15.900 --> 00:23:19.440 line:15% they have the sense of expense. 459 00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:20.910 line:15% Like they look valuable to me 460 00:23:20.910 --> 00:23:23.790 line:15% and I'm sure they're precious stones. 461 00:23:23.790 --> 00:23:26.700 line:15% And I couldn't resist bringing this one in, 462 00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:30.630 line:15% because think of that in relation to the first princess, 463 00:23:30.630 --> 00:23:32.220 line:15% I mean, first queen Elizabeth, 464 00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:34.080 line:15% and now we have queen Elizabeth here. 465 00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:36.180 line:15% I think that is quite an extraordinary portrait. 466 00:23:36.180 --> 00:23:41.180 line:15% And I also think it's quite subversive because no crown, 467 00:23:41.850 --> 00:23:46.560 line:15% not even any fancy jewels, we just have her in, 468 00:23:46.560 --> 00:23:49.560 line:15% it looks like a suit that okay, it's well made, 469 00:23:49.560 --> 00:23:52.290 line:15% but it doesn't scream wealth at you in the way 470 00:23:52.290 --> 00:23:54.000 line:15% that some other things might. 471 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:56.355 line:15% And the handbag is there too. 472 00:23:56.355 --> 00:23:58.584 line:15% So this is a portrait I think that is engaging 473 00:23:58.584 --> 00:24:03.584 line:15% with traditions of portraiture and then playing with them, 474 00:24:04.060 --> 00:24:04.893 line:15% you know? 475 00:24:04.893 --> 00:24:09.333 Actually extending them into more contemporary ways. 476 00:24:10.860 --> 00:24:13.067 Also before we part from it, 477 00:24:13.067 --> 00:24:17.010 'cause we will come back to it in a different context. 478 00:24:17.010 --> 00:24:19.260 The queen is smiling. 479 00:24:19.260 --> 00:24:22.050 line:15% So of all those other subjects that we've been looking at, 480 00:24:22.050 --> 00:24:23.820 line:15% who, you know, you talk about the gravity 481 00:24:23.820 --> 00:24:25.950 line:15% and the seriousness and then what it is 482 00:24:25.950 --> 00:24:30.950 line:15% to break into a smile that gives it maybe playing here 483 00:24:31.260 --> 00:24:34.380 line:15% with candidness or, but you know of course, 484 00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:36.423 line:15% that is totally contrived too. 485 00:24:39.100 --> 00:24:41.670 line:15% Okay, so more specifically then 486 00:24:41.670 --> 00:24:44.160 line:15% what are some of the unique qualities 487 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:46.860 line:15% of some of the photographic portraits on show? 488 00:24:46.860 --> 00:24:50.100 line:15% And I'm not going doing this in any order of priority. 489 00:24:50.100 --> 00:24:53.790 But let's start with the idea of an inner life. 490 00:24:53.790 --> 00:24:56.100 Now, if you go back to the 19th century 491 00:24:56.100 --> 00:24:58.770 and to someone like Julia Margaret Cameron, 492 00:24:58.770 --> 00:25:01.320 there was the idea that you could try and get the essence 493 00:25:01.320 --> 00:25:03.420 of an individual in a photograph. 494 00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:04.980 So you had to do two things, 495 00:25:04.980 --> 00:25:08.629 one is you had to give them the likeness, 496 00:25:08.629 --> 00:25:12.960 what we call the physiognomic look, that had to be accurate. 497 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:15.840 But something about the person about the character 498 00:25:15.840 --> 00:25:19.230 had to be conveyed and portraitist strived 499 00:25:19.230 --> 00:25:21.960 to achieve that through the 19th century. 500 00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:25.290 In the modernist period, especially, less so now, 501 00:25:25.290 --> 00:25:26.700 because we've had post-modernism 502 00:25:26.700 --> 00:25:29.340 and all sorts of other things that have happened since. 503 00:25:29.340 --> 00:25:32.820 But it means that in the exhibition, 504 00:25:32.820 --> 00:25:35.820 there's actually not a lot of engagement 505 00:25:35.820 --> 00:25:38.730 with the inner life, which I think is quite fascinating. 506 00:25:38.730 --> 00:25:42.360 Except I think for this portrait of Mandela 507 00:25:42.360 --> 00:25:46.950 line:15% and also of Malala Yousafzai, 508 00:25:46.950 --> 00:25:49.290 line:15% which we'll have a look at in a minute. 509 00:25:49.290 --> 00:25:54.290 line:15% So, the inner life then now, how is that conveyed? 510 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:56.340 line:15% What is our evidence here? 511 00:25:56.340 --> 00:26:00.573 line:15% See how inscrutable his expression is, that face. 512 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:04.710 line:15% He's not looking directly, I don't think at you, 513 00:26:04.710 --> 00:26:09.710 line:15% there's just a slightly down thing as if he is preoccupied, 514 00:26:09.840 --> 00:26:13.170 line:15% but I would suggest that that gaze suggests 515 00:26:13.170 --> 00:26:16.740 line:15% a kind of suffering and a kind of conviction. 516 00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:20.970 line:15% And as mentioned earlier with this one that, 517 00:26:20.970 --> 00:26:25.410 line:15% okay, size alone tells us that it's an honorific portrait 518 00:26:25.410 --> 00:26:27.780 line:15% and we've got the formality and the gravity. 519 00:26:27.780 --> 00:26:29.880 line:15% But then it's overlaid with the text, 520 00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:33.780 line:15% which also gives another level of complexity, 521 00:26:33.780 --> 00:26:37.837 line:15% but of importance because the photographer here, 522 00:26:37.837 --> 00:26:41.430 line:15% `Shirin Neshat has written directly onto the photographic 523 00:26:41.430 --> 00:26:44.460 print and the poem comes from a Pashto poet, 524 00:26:44.460 --> 00:26:46.470 Rahmat Shah Sayel. 525 00:26:46.470 --> 00:26:49.560 Which as extended label tells us, 526 00:26:49.560 --> 00:26:54.450 addresses the legendary Pashton heroin, Malala of Maiwand 527 00:26:54.450 --> 00:26:57.630 and praises her contemporary namesake. 528 00:26:57.630 --> 00:27:00.030 Now why I'm just giving you that detail is 529 00:27:00.030 --> 00:27:02.040 you've got the past, then you've got history, 530 00:27:02.040 --> 00:27:04.830 you've got legend, you've got the present. 531 00:27:04.830 --> 00:27:08.704 And so by merging the two together in this vocabulary, 532 00:27:08.704 --> 00:27:11.880 it means that for you, as a viewer, 533 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:15.000 you'll understand she is someone of importance. 534 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:18.477 And for the photographer, 535 00:27:18.477 --> 00:27:23.275 there is a sense then of her inner relevance. 536 00:27:23.275 --> 00:27:27.480 What Neshat described was Malala's humility, wisdom, 537 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:29.880 and a rare sense, sense of inner beauty. 538 00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:31.920 That's what I mean by something inside her 539 00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:35.343 that is she is trying to communicate. 540 00:27:36.390 --> 00:27:39.540 But more often in the exhibition, the orientation 541 00:27:39.540 --> 00:27:44.220 is towards the outer, towards appearances, the outer look. 542 00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:47.340 And that's why I keep using this photograph 543 00:27:47.340 --> 00:27:50.070 line:15% because I think it is such a perfect example 544 00:27:50.070 --> 00:27:53.730 line:15% of that artfulness. 545 00:27:53.730 --> 00:27:56.370 line:15% You'll see in the show that some of the subjects 546 00:27:56.370 --> 00:28:00.517 line:15% appear androgynous, especially David Bowie, Mick Jagger too, 547 00:28:00.517 --> 00:28:05.517 line:15% 'cause he's in a jacket that's got a fur around here, 548 00:28:06.450 --> 00:28:09.855 line:15% but his face in some ways is feminised. 549 00:28:09.855 --> 00:28:14.820 line:15% And so this one not only speaks to that, 550 00:28:14.820 --> 00:28:17.550 line:15% but to these strategies that I'm calling 551 00:28:17.550 --> 00:28:20.220 line:15% strategies of obfuscation. 552 00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:22.770 line:15% So what I mean by that is that the subject's face 553 00:28:22.770 --> 00:28:24.870 line:15% is only partially revealed. 554 00:28:24.870 --> 00:28:28.397 line:15% Naomi Campbell, the famous, so famous as a model, 555 00:28:28.397 --> 00:28:31.950 line:15% her face known instantly, 556 00:28:31.950 --> 00:28:33.900 line:15% in the show she's wearing sunglasses 557 00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:36.570 line:15% so that the face is partially obscured. 558 00:28:36.570 --> 00:28:38.842 line:15% Maybe that's to slow down the reading, 559 00:28:38.842 --> 00:28:41.940 line:15% our instant recognition of her. 560 00:28:41.940 --> 00:28:44.760 line:15% Margaret that's face is modified by this bright beam 561 00:28:44.760 --> 00:28:48.660 line:15% of light, so it's sort of broken by that. 562 00:28:48.660 --> 00:28:51.330 line:15% And then here in David Beckham's case, 563 00:28:51.330 --> 00:28:55.410 line:15% see how the hair is falling across his eye 564 00:28:55.410 --> 00:28:58.050 line:15% and then the other eye is in shadow. 565 00:28:58.050 --> 00:29:02.130 line:15% So what do these strategies, what's the point of that? 566 00:29:02.130 --> 00:29:06.843 You need to ask why your reading is being slowed down. 567 00:29:08.183 --> 00:29:09.573 (clears throat) Excuse me. 568 00:29:12.152 --> 00:29:17.152 line:15% So, we might just stay here just for one more second then. 569 00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:21.220 line:15% So, because what I'm going to do in this last section 570 00:29:22.418 --> 00:29:25.380 of my talk, is touch on this inter-relationship 571 00:29:25.380 --> 00:29:27.780 between private and public space, 572 00:29:27.780 --> 00:29:31.350 which we've been flirting with all the way through. 573 00:29:31.350 --> 00:29:33.270 Because it really struck me as an issue 574 00:29:33.270 --> 00:29:36.870 when I was looking at Shakespeare to Winehouse. 575 00:29:36.870 --> 00:29:39.780 But it extends to images beyond the show, 576 00:29:39.780 --> 00:29:44.070 including in the national photographic portraiture prize 577 00:29:44.070 --> 00:29:47.280 and in the NPG in national portrait gallery here 578 00:29:47.280 --> 00:29:48.960 its own collection. 579 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.980 So my specific point is about the construction of intimacy 580 00:29:52.980 --> 00:29:55.350 and a false intimacy. 581 00:29:55.350 --> 00:29:59.820 And this is why David Beckham work works so well 582 00:29:59.820 --> 00:30:03.690 because you might think that the close up 583 00:30:03.690 --> 00:30:08.070 is going to give you maximum information. 584 00:30:08.070 --> 00:30:09.990 And if you look around the exhibition, 585 00:30:09.990 --> 00:30:12.780 that's where you'll see that the dominant vantage point 586 00:30:12.780 --> 00:30:14.190 is this close up. 587 00:30:14.190 --> 00:30:16.863 As we've already said, okay, head and shoulders view. 588 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:21.240 So usually then you would expect that close up, 589 00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:23.790 by giving you this information, 590 00:30:23.790 --> 00:30:27.277 assuming it's not to do with scrutiny and surveillance, 591 00:30:27.277 --> 00:30:31.586 in anthropology, but in a more benign mode, 592 00:30:31.586 --> 00:30:33.930 that it will imply intimacy. 593 00:30:33.930 --> 00:30:35.730 Because you have to get close to somebody. 594 00:30:35.730 --> 00:30:39.000 The person has to agree, yes, you can photograph me, 595 00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:41.493 come close, I trust you or whatever. 596 00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:48.300 So, in photographs of lovers, this is where you see 597 00:30:48.300 --> 00:30:50.550 especially really interesting things happen 598 00:30:50.550 --> 00:30:54.960 where the space and I can't show you the actual photographs. 599 00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:57.300 It's a series, you'll be able to look at it online. 600 00:30:57.300 --> 00:31:01.350 But Alfred Stieglitz, his photographs of his partner, 601 00:31:01.350 --> 00:31:05.735 Georgia O'Keeffe the American painter. 602 00:31:05.735 --> 00:31:08.363 He did a whole series of her because he said, 603 00:31:08.363 --> 00:31:10.500 there's no point taking one portrait. 604 00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:13.260 You never get the sum of a person in one portrait. 605 00:31:13.260 --> 00:31:16.590 I need to take a series to try to know her, 606 00:31:16.590 --> 00:31:18.210 try to represent her. 607 00:31:18.210 --> 00:31:22.440 So he photographs, her hands, her hair and so on. 608 00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:25.800 But the space that he creates is so intimate 609 00:31:25.800 --> 00:31:28.800 that she begins to fall away as a subject. 610 00:31:28.800 --> 00:31:31.050 You know, there's a whole lot of blur and in distinctness 611 00:31:31.050 --> 00:31:33.060 in there, because he's practically 612 00:31:33.060 --> 00:31:36.180 so far into her physical space, 613 00:31:36.180 --> 00:31:38.340 what we think of as the personal space. 614 00:31:38.340 --> 00:31:40.418 So that space of intimacy is used to great effect. 615 00:31:40.418 --> 00:31:45.150 It's quite a common trope in photographs of lovers 616 00:31:45.150 --> 00:31:47.310 or intimate others. 617 00:31:47.310 --> 00:31:50.190 But when we are seeing close up in the exhibition, 618 00:31:50.190 --> 00:31:53.790 Shakespeare to Winehouse, it's operating in a different way 619 00:31:53.790 --> 00:31:57.114 because our subjects don't become indeterminate. 620 00:31:57.114 --> 00:32:00.180 You know, the boundaries don't don't collapse. 621 00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:04.920 We're still reminded I think, that we are other 622 00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:07.498 to the subject there. 623 00:32:07.498 --> 00:32:11.580 So there's toying then with conventions of intimacy 624 00:32:11.580 --> 00:32:13.080 by this personal space, 625 00:32:13.080 --> 00:32:16.680 like how close you are to the subject in this agreement, 626 00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:21.540 is also apparent in the calculated use of nudity 627 00:32:21.540 --> 00:32:23.490 and or a state of undress. 628 00:32:23.490 --> 00:32:26.400 So in the show, there are a few cases 629 00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:28.487 where nudity is implied. 630 00:32:28.487 --> 00:32:32.430 Naomi Campbell I've mentioned already, so from here up, 631 00:32:32.430 --> 00:32:35.037 but you think, okay, maybe she's fully nude. 632 00:32:35.037 --> 00:32:37.020 You just can't know. 633 00:32:37.020 --> 00:32:39.840 David Bowie, there's a very lovely portrait, 634 00:32:39.840 --> 00:32:41.820 just the head and shoulders, but again, 635 00:32:41.820 --> 00:32:43.950 maybe he has no top on. 636 00:32:43.950 --> 00:32:46.260 Kate Moss being an example. 637 00:32:46.260 --> 00:32:47.760 And then Vivienne Westwood. 638 00:32:47.760 --> 00:32:52.530 That's why we can't look at this in reality, 639 00:32:52.530 --> 00:32:54.750 line:15% but I do want to discuss it because I think 640 00:32:54.750 --> 00:32:57.690 line:15% it's the most subversive image in the exhibition. 641 00:32:57.690 --> 00:33:01.890 line:15% And it's by the documentary photographer, Martin Parr, 642 00:33:01.890 --> 00:33:04.920 who has a great reputation, 643 00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:07.800 not as a photographer of celebrities necessarily, 644 00:33:07.800 --> 00:33:11.220 but through his colour documentary practise. 645 00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:15.360 And as I know that some of you, hopefully online 646 00:33:15.360 --> 00:33:17.880 as well as in person have seen the exhibition, 647 00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:21.861 you'll know that Vivienne Westwood, Dame Vivian Westwood, 648 00:33:21.861 --> 00:33:26.861 the very famous fashion designer, and one of the pioneers 649 00:33:27.751 --> 00:33:30.180 of the British punk movement. 650 00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:34.181 She's in her undies with her stockings on and no shoes. 651 00:33:34.181 --> 00:33:35.338 And she got a t-shirt, which is important 652 00:33:35.338 --> 00:33:38.661 because the t-shirt really does stress her involvement 653 00:33:38.661 --> 00:33:43.661 in the climate change movement, like climate activism. 654 00:33:45.150 --> 00:33:48.810 But where she's standing is in a toilet cubicle, 655 00:33:48.810 --> 00:33:50.400 a public toilet cubicle. 656 00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:54.060 So she's in the state of not her going out dress at all 657 00:33:54.060 --> 00:33:56.970 of undress, but in a public realm. 658 00:33:56.970 --> 00:33:59.882 So you have that weird incongruity between, 659 00:33:59.882 --> 00:34:02.550 if you're you're in that kind of outfit, 660 00:34:02.550 --> 00:34:06.360 you would expect you are in a more private space. 661 00:34:06.360 --> 00:34:10.710 Sure, a public toilet is the door is still shut, 662 00:34:10.710 --> 00:34:13.140 but it is playing with those boundaries 663 00:34:13.140 --> 00:34:15.870 between the domestic and between the public. 664 00:34:15.870 --> 00:34:20.870 And so I can make the point through that 665 00:34:21.030 --> 00:34:26.030 about revealment then, because when you see her undressed 666 00:34:26.430 --> 00:34:30.270 like that, you can't take it at face value. 667 00:34:30.270 --> 00:34:33.180 The revealment is a deliberate strategy 668 00:34:33.180 --> 00:34:36.570 employed not to establish authentic intimacy, 669 00:34:36.570 --> 00:34:39.270 but to play with its effective qualities. 670 00:34:39.270 --> 00:34:41.520 Like what you get out of seeing someone 671 00:34:41.520 --> 00:34:45.810 who looks like they are prepared to show more 672 00:34:45.810 --> 00:34:48.630 than you would be expecting conventionally. 673 00:34:48.630 --> 00:34:51.630 So in the Westwood case, viewers might be surprised 674 00:34:51.630 --> 00:34:54.613 that a fashion icon isn't dressed, 675 00:34:54.613 --> 00:34:57.960 and that she's posed in the most unglamorous setting. 676 00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:01.230 Squeezed into that awkward space that I have described. 677 00:35:01.230 --> 00:35:02.880 And this is where the colour, 678 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:05.400 the fact of power working in colour is so important 679 00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:08.040 because the colours are not attractive. 680 00:35:08.040 --> 00:35:11.103 You know, the whole thing looks purposefully tacky. 681 00:35:12.540 --> 00:35:15.330 That's why I see it as subversive, 682 00:35:15.330 --> 00:35:20.330 line:15% but this is where we can use the photograph by Polly Borland 683 00:35:20.790 --> 00:35:24.210 line:15% from the NPGs collection to make a similar point, 684 00:35:24.210 --> 00:35:29.210 line:15% because we have nudity in the sense that this, 685 00:35:29.250 --> 00:35:32.141 line:15% you'll all know Germaine Greer is the feminist activist, 686 00:35:32.141 --> 00:35:37.141 line:15% pose nude in a private space, assuming that it's bathroom, 687 00:35:37.980 --> 00:35:40.927 line:15% but everything in this portrait is a contrivance, 688 00:35:40.927 --> 00:35:42.840 line:15% `it's a conceit. 689 00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:45.900 line:15% So she's fully aware of what she's doing 690 00:35:45.900 --> 00:35:48.720 line:15% just in the way that Polly Borland and the photographer 691 00:35:48.720 --> 00:35:50.340 line:15% is fully aware of what she's doing. 692 00:35:50.340 --> 00:35:52.230 line:15% They're working together to create something 693 00:35:52.230 --> 00:35:54.300 line:15% that hasn't occurred naturally. 694 00:35:54.300 --> 00:35:55.999 line:15% It's not documentary at all. 695 00:35:55.999 --> 00:36:00.510 line:15% So, it's where they are playing with these ideas 696 00:36:00.510 --> 00:36:04.399 line:15% about intimacy and the boundaries between 697 00:36:04.399 --> 00:36:06.840 line:15% the private and the public. 698 00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:08.190 line:15% And if you compare this, 699 00:36:08.190 --> 00:36:11.580 line:15% I think it's quite striking looking at the entries 700 00:36:11.580 --> 00:36:14.550 line:15% in the national photographic portraiture prize, 701 00:36:14.550 --> 00:36:19.140 line:15% because the idea of an authentic setting is actually key 702 00:36:19.140 --> 00:36:21.900 line:15% it's it's evident time and time again, 703 00:36:21.900 --> 00:36:24.540 line:15% where people are opposing in spaces 704 00:36:24.540 --> 00:36:29.400 line:15% that either belong to them inside or out. 705 00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:30.990 line:15% We can't always know that, of course, 706 00:36:30.990 --> 00:36:34.440 line:15% but we make assumptions about their them being authentic. 707 00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:38.130 line:15% And this can be seen in Bec Lorrimer's portrait 708 00:36:38.130 --> 00:36:41.490 of Emily and Effy where the backyard, 709 00:36:41.490 --> 00:36:45.240 line:15% the actual setting then comes to have a very active role 710 00:36:45.240 --> 00:36:48.330 line:15% in its ordinariness and then its familiarity. 711 00:36:48.330 --> 00:36:51.499 line:15% Especially as Australians, we are very aware of the backyard 712 00:36:51.499 --> 00:36:54.900 line:15% as part of our domestic realm. 713 00:36:54.900 --> 00:36:58.320 And so we then can identify these two subjects 714 00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:01.299 as being at home in it. 715 00:37:01.299 --> 00:37:06.299 It gives you a look that, as I describe as being authentic. 716 00:37:07.050 --> 00:37:11.880 But the incongruity of a setting can also be activated 717 00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:15.240 for its narrative dynamism and its visual energy. 718 00:37:15.240 --> 00:37:18.540 So as I said, with the Vivienne Westwood portrait, 719 00:37:18.540 --> 00:37:21.928 you don't expect to see a fashion icon in a toilet. 720 00:37:21.928 --> 00:37:26.190 There is something here in this portrait by Igvar Kenne, 721 00:37:26.190 --> 00:37:29.460 line:15% which I think the barmaid isn't in the bar, 722 00:37:29.460 --> 00:37:30.838 line:15% she's in the laundry, 723 00:37:30.838 --> 00:37:33.488 line:15% but she's in the laundry in presumably her work gear, 724 00:37:37.260 --> 00:37:39.900 line:15% what she would be wearing in the bar. 725 00:37:39.900 --> 00:37:43.980 line:15% So these incongruities introduce 726 00:37:43.980 --> 00:37:47.880 line:15% interesting narrative questions, I think. 727 00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:51.600 line:15% And that's why I've brought this back 728 00:37:51.600 --> 00:37:54.240 line:15% because that kind of incongruity applies 729 00:37:54.240 --> 00:37:57.330 line:15% to Polly Borland's photograph of the queen, 730 00:37:57.330 --> 00:37:59.580 line:15% because where is she? 731 00:37:59.580 --> 00:38:03.303 line:15% I mean, it looks like a Marimekko display behind her. 732 00:38:04.296 --> 00:38:06.360 line:15% Is she in a shop or is that a curtain? 733 00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:07.230 line:15% Is she at home? 734 00:38:07.230 --> 00:38:08.520 line:15% Is she in Borland's studio 735 00:38:08.520 --> 00:38:11.610 line:15% and they've used a piece of fabric as a backdrop? 736 00:38:11.610 --> 00:38:15.720 line:15% So that immediately, you actually get a sense 737 00:38:15.720 --> 00:38:16.950 line:15% of uncertainty. 738 00:38:16.950 --> 00:38:20.130 line:15% Now, certainly there's the colour, the complimentary colours, 739 00:38:20.130 --> 00:38:22.126 line:15% which make you realise once again, how contrive of this is 740 00:38:22.126 --> 00:38:26.340 line:15% and how worked out it probably was in advance. 741 00:38:26.340 --> 00:38:27.750 line:15% But why do that? 742 00:38:27.750 --> 00:38:30.810 line:15% What is the kind of narrative flow 743 00:38:30.810 --> 00:38:33.753 line:15% that comes from that sort of juxtaposition? 744 00:38:37.200 --> 00:38:39.900 line:15% So where I thought we would end is with this, 745 00:38:39.900 --> 00:38:43.080 line:15% this is Petrina Hicks's dragonflies 746 00:38:43.080 --> 00:38:48.080 line:15% and it's in the national photographic portraiture prize. 747 00:38:48.390 --> 00:38:50.250 line:15% So you'll be able to go and have a look at it 748 00:38:50.250 --> 00:38:53.550 line:15% because the show only opened last night. 749 00:38:53.550 --> 00:38:55.980 line:15% Because I wanted to make the point then, 750 00:38:55.980 --> 00:38:59.430 line:15% that portraiture and its traditions are not static. 751 00:38:59.430 --> 00:39:03.810 line:15% And we can see that through just following this idea 752 00:39:03.810 --> 00:39:06.420 line:15% about the changing spaces, 753 00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:09.540 line:15% the changing public and private spaces. 754 00:39:09.540 --> 00:39:12.980 line:15% So there are many contemporary portraits that ask questions 755 00:39:12.980 --> 00:39:14.520 line:15% of portraiture itself. 756 00:39:14.520 --> 00:39:17.940 line:15% Those very traditions that I started off with. 757 00:39:17.940 --> 00:39:21.320 line:15% And I think this image by Hicks is one example. 758 00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:24.990 line:15% Like so many subjects in the Shakespeare to Winehouse 759 00:39:24.990 --> 00:39:28.800 line:15% exhibition, the young woman is performing for the camera. 760 00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:32.490 line:15% She knows she's there, she knows why she's there, 761 00:39:32.490 --> 00:39:36.420 line:15% but in this case she isn't identified. 762 00:39:36.420 --> 00:39:39.870 line:15% So not only do we have no identity markers 763 00:39:39.870 --> 00:39:41.580 line:15% 'cause Krysia used that term just before, 764 00:39:41.580 --> 00:39:44.670 line:15% and I thought, oh yeah, that's a great summary 765 00:39:44.670 --> 00:39:49.470 line:15% in the sense that there's nothing to tell us what she does, 766 00:39:49.470 --> 00:39:51.990 line:15% but there's also nothing to tell us who she is 767 00:39:51.990 --> 00:39:55.650 line:15% because she's not identified in the title. 768 00:39:55.650 --> 00:39:58.979 line:15% We don't know her and we can't actually know her. 769 00:39:58.979 --> 00:40:03.780 line:15% So I think that the fact then to end with a portrait 770 00:40:03.780 --> 00:40:06.000 line:15% which is engaging with portraiture, 771 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.910 line:15% but is making identity irrelevant, 772 00:40:08.910 --> 00:40:12.420 line:15% might be a most provocative place to stop. 773 00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:14.806 line:15% So thank you very much. 774 00:40:14.806 --> 00:40:17.806 (audience applauds) 775 00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:26.480 So now we can see if there's anything from the chat, 776 00:40:27.720 --> 00:40:30.870 any questions that you would like to bring up? 777 00:40:30.870 --> 00:40:31.703 Thanks, Helen. 778 00:40:31.703 --> 00:40:33.780 That was a really fantastic talk 779 00:40:33.780 --> 00:40:35.640 and gave us a lot to think about. 780 00:40:35.640 --> 00:40:36.900 There hasn't been a lot of questions 781 00:40:36.900 --> 00:40:37.920 from the online audience, 782 00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:40.380 but there was one from a regular of ours, 783 00:40:40.380 --> 00:40:42.944 Nita who lives in Sweden, and joins in just about 784 00:40:42.944 --> 00:40:45.930 every single programme that we have on, 785 00:40:45.930 --> 00:40:48.374 even though the time differences horrendous for her. 786 00:40:48.374 --> 00:40:50.610 She did make an observation that she thought 787 00:40:50.610 --> 00:40:52.890 it was interesting that at times there's an assumption 788 00:40:52.890 --> 00:40:54.720 that there's no Photoshop changes made 789 00:40:54.720 --> 00:40:56.970 and that we assume that photos are of a total scene 790 00:40:56.970 --> 00:40:58.620 and there's no after fix. 791 00:40:58.620 --> 00:40:59.900 Yeah. 792 00:40:59.900 --> 00:41:00.733 Do you have anything that you'd like, 793 00:41:00.733 --> 00:41:01.830 any observations about that? 794 00:41:01.830 --> 00:41:04.451 No, i think that is that's another really important point. 795 00:41:04.451 --> 00:41:07.320 And if you think about the evolution of portraiture, 796 00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:08.970 especially in photography. 797 00:41:08.970 --> 00:41:10.318 In the 19th century, 798 00:41:10.318 --> 00:41:13.800 we can't even assume that things were naturalistic 799 00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:15.900 because you could use collage 800 00:41:15.900 --> 00:41:18.270 and there were a whole lot of things you could do 801 00:41:18.270 --> 00:41:22.020 to manipulate the final photograph. 802 00:41:22.020 --> 00:41:24.960 So, we have long worked with this assumption 803 00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:27.450 that the historical portraits may be more accurate 804 00:41:27.450 --> 00:41:28.920 than contemporary ones. 805 00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:31.512 When sure you could manipulate in the dark room, 806 00:41:31.512 --> 00:41:33.570 you could manipulate the print. 807 00:41:33.570 --> 00:41:35.203 Now you can manipulate digitally. 808 00:41:35.203 --> 00:41:38.340 But my point there would be that, 809 00:41:38.340 --> 00:41:40.040 yes, everything is up for grabs. 810 00:41:40.040 --> 00:41:43.312 There are so many people working historically 811 00:41:43.312 --> 00:41:46.952 who were so active as manipulators. 812 00:41:46.952 --> 00:41:50.640 But why I like that question is it's just bringing the, 813 00:41:50.640 --> 00:41:55.590 or the comment, it's just reminding you to always be working 814 00:41:55.590 --> 00:41:57.360 with a critical mind, you know? 815 00:41:57.360 --> 00:41:59.550 Don't take things at face value. 816 00:41:59.550 --> 00:42:02.883 Think about the decisions that a photographer is making 817 00:42:02.883 --> 00:42:06.930 when he or she takes the portrait. 818 00:42:06.930 --> 00:42:11.550 But also the decisions about what the subject, 819 00:42:11.550 --> 00:42:13.254 how do you want to appear? 820 00:42:13.254 --> 00:42:16.590 And as I said, the styling and everything else 821 00:42:16.590 --> 00:42:19.983 that might be involved if it's of someone very famous. 822 00:42:21.300 --> 00:42:22.140 Thank you. 823 00:42:22.140 --> 00:42:23.070 Thank you, Helen. 824 00:42:23.070 --> 00:42:24.900 That's all the questions from the online audience, 825 00:42:24.900 --> 00:42:27.390 apart from the fact that you may like to receive 826 00:42:27.390 --> 00:42:28.860 a compliment from Gale Newton, 827 00:42:28.860 --> 00:42:31.890 who has said that it's been a very insightful talk. 828 00:42:31.890 --> 00:42:33.060 Oh, thank you. 829 00:42:33.060 --> 00:42:33.990 We all know Gale. 830 00:42:33.990 --> 00:42:36.780 So that's lovely that she's zoomed in today. 831 00:42:36.780 --> 00:42:39.570 We probably have time to take maybe one or two questions 832 00:42:39.570 --> 00:42:41.340 from the onsite audience. 833 00:42:41.340 --> 00:42:44.340 If anybody would like to ask a question off Helen 834 00:42:44.340 --> 00:42:45.190 before we finish? 835 00:42:46.170 --> 00:42:47.720 No one's gonna be brave enough. 836 00:42:49.290 --> 00:42:51.870 Or, you can tell me what your favourite portrait is 837 00:42:51.870 --> 00:42:55.443 in the exhibition and suggest why. 838 00:42:57.118 --> 00:42:58.410 We've got one question at the front. 839 00:42:58.410 --> 00:43:00.360 I'll just pass the microphone over. 840 00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:01.443 Sorry to run under. 841 00:43:03.690 --> 00:43:08.340 I was interested to see the Naomi Campbell portrait 842 00:43:08.340 --> 00:43:09.690 that you mentioned. 843 00:43:09.690 --> 00:43:13.530 To my eye was somewhat out of focus. 844 00:43:13.530 --> 00:43:15.696 Is there a reason? 845 00:43:15.696 --> 00:43:19.110 If that were my photo, I wouldn't obviously put it up. 846 00:43:19.110 --> 00:43:20.239 Yeah. 847 00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:21.180 Because I think, oh, that's out of focus 848 00:43:21.180 --> 00:43:23.100 so I won't display that. Yeah. 849 00:43:23.100 --> 00:43:25.203 Is there something behind that? 850 00:43:25.203 --> 00:43:27.540 Why somebody would do that? 851 00:43:27.540 --> 00:43:29.693 Yeah, now that's a really interesting point 852 00:43:29.693 --> 00:43:32.979 because I agree and I think it is out of focus. 853 00:43:32.979 --> 00:43:37.680 So yeah, you have to ask, why would that be the case? 854 00:43:37.680 --> 00:43:42.248 And I think, I use that word obfuscation that why is it 855 00:43:42.248 --> 00:43:45.930 in the exhibition that there's quite a number 856 00:43:45.930 --> 00:43:50.040 of photographers doing things that just block that access, 857 00:43:50.040 --> 00:43:52.800 that real specificity of the subject? 858 00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:54.750 The directness between them and you. 859 00:43:54.750 --> 00:43:57.540 And I think it's probably another example of that. 860 00:43:57.540 --> 00:43:58.860 If you look in the glasses, 861 00:43:58.860 --> 00:44:01.590 you can see that the photographer is there. 862 00:44:01.590 --> 00:44:04.530 So you're being reminded of the whole transactional nature 863 00:44:04.530 --> 00:44:05.760 of the process, 864 00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:09.660 but the fact that she does appear nude and she is so famous 865 00:44:09.660 --> 00:44:13.200 that she is so kind of overexposed, 866 00:44:13.200 --> 00:44:15.180 I guess you'd say normally in the public realm, 867 00:44:15.180 --> 00:44:16.890 it's just a way of softening perhaps then 868 00:44:16.890 --> 00:44:18.342 and taking it down a bit. 869 00:44:18.342 --> 00:44:21.933 Yeah, so I think it would all be very purposeful. 870 00:44:25.590 --> 00:44:28.814 I think Mike's got a question too up there. 871 00:44:28.814 --> 00:44:31.397 (indistinct) 872 00:44:37.950 --> 00:44:39.910 I'll just repeat that for the online audience. 873 00:44:39.910 --> 00:44:43.230 So Mark's observation was that the Margaret Thatcher image 874 00:44:43.230 --> 00:44:44.640 is also outta focus, 875 00:44:44.640 --> 00:44:47.550 but that was intentional to sort of soften the look. 876 00:44:47.550 --> 00:44:48.663 Yeah, well, what's great that Mark just gave us then was, 877 00:44:48.663 --> 00:44:53.663 okay, it's outta focus, but why? 878 00:44:55.020 --> 00:44:58.500 Because it's softens her look and I think that's right. 879 00:44:58.500 --> 00:45:03.430 And because that portrait is so dominated by the light 880 00:45:03.430 --> 00:45:06.540 that the light of course is a thing of power 881 00:45:07.700 --> 00:45:08.790 of illumination. 882 00:45:08.790 --> 00:45:12.600 You know, you could read as having a symbolic role, 883 00:45:12.600 --> 00:45:16.410 but I know Parkinson talks about the need to glamorise 884 00:45:16.410 --> 00:45:19.320 or make his subjects look good. 885 00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:22.437 So in that case, perhaps the light is also doing that too. 886 00:45:22.437 --> 00:45:27.437 Maybe their soft focus is part of enhancing her, 887 00:45:27.750 --> 00:45:29.520 making her look better. 888 00:45:29.520 --> 00:45:32.310 And who doesn't wanna photograph where you look better 889 00:45:32.310 --> 00:45:34.427 than you think you're doing real life? 890 00:45:35.261 --> 00:45:36.510 Thanks, Helen. 891 00:45:36.510 --> 00:45:38.220 We do have one more question coming through 892 00:45:38.220 --> 00:45:42.060 from the online audience from John, John Swainston, 893 00:45:42.060 --> 00:45:44.680 who asks, has technology now advanced so much 894 00:45:44.680 --> 00:45:47.670 that in the intent of the subject in the photographer 895 00:45:47.670 --> 00:45:50.723 can now be without technical limit, unlike the 1840s? 896 00:45:53.070 --> 00:45:56.490 Well, I think that's a really open question 897 00:45:56.490 --> 00:46:00.363 and technology, I guess I've always, 898 00:46:01.500 --> 00:46:04.980 in the way that I approach photographs as images 899 00:46:04.980 --> 00:46:08.070 and not objects is not to be too swayed by 900 00:46:08.070 --> 00:46:10.440 what technology has made possible. 901 00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:12.712 Sure, you've gotta establish its role. 902 00:46:12.712 --> 00:46:17.670 But I can tell you something that Max DuPain 903 00:46:17.670 --> 00:46:18.862 said about this, 904 00:46:18.862 --> 00:46:22.950 because yesterday I was reading some newspaper reviews 905 00:46:22.950 --> 00:46:25.920 that he had written in the 1980s. 906 00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:29.730 Now, Max DuPain, one of our very well known photographers. 907 00:46:29.730 --> 00:46:32.820 And his own style kind of cool. 908 00:46:32.820 --> 00:46:35.400 A lot of his portraits you might think were, 909 00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:37.080 they are certainly set up. 910 00:46:37.080 --> 00:46:41.460 But what he said is optics and techniques are never enough. 911 00:46:41.460 --> 00:46:43.680 What do you want is warm humanity? 912 00:46:43.680 --> 00:46:46.230 And I thought now that's actually really interesting 913 00:46:46.230 --> 00:46:50.610 for someone who we do think of as having a cool style, 914 00:46:50.610 --> 00:46:53.490 still wanting in his photographs and the photographs 915 00:46:53.490 --> 00:46:54.540 of others. 916 00:46:54.540 --> 00:46:57.420 He uses words like compassion, tenderness, 917 00:46:57.420 --> 00:47:00.180 a whole lot of words that I wasn't expecting, 918 00:47:00.180 --> 00:47:01.590 but that's what he was saying. 919 00:47:01.590 --> 00:47:04.440 He wanted human feeling and that. 920 00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:08.940 So sure, technologically, yeah, the sky's the limit. 921 00:47:08.940 --> 00:47:10.560 We don't know what's gonna happen 922 00:47:10.560 --> 00:47:14.460 or what will be possible in portraiture in the future. 923 00:47:14.460 --> 00:47:19.460 But that's why the Petrina Hicks, I think, is a provocation. 924 00:47:19.560 --> 00:47:23.280 Like how much do you wanna know about a person? 925 00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:26.853 What is it even possible for us to know about a person? 926 00:47:28.890 --> 00:47:29.723 Thank you, Helen. Thank you. 927 00:47:29.723 --> 00:47:31.440 On that note, I'll pass back to Krysia. 928 00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:32.273 Thank you. 929 00:47:32.273 --> 00:47:33.106 Thanks.